Update on Win-Trading and Griefing in Season 4

[Klintrin]

Just ran through the leaderboards today and 2 teams who were known for wintrading haven't had their ratings touched, or even suspended. Lol.

[Azurestone]

rip smooch. baddiestions know what i am talking about

[WannEras]

So what we saying?

 

1) On quitting a ranked solo match mid-game (or DC'ing), said player gets a 1 hour lockout from ranked PVP. This could also be a points system, where the lockout timer would be extended beyond one hour depending on the amount of RWZs they have quit over the previous week.

 

2) You can only queue for RWZ with 2018 expertise, and once queued your gear is locked the same as your spec (good bye skank tanks carrying a second set of gear). In turn remove all bolstering in RWZs.

 

3) Minimum valor 65 to queue ranked (even if a player levels by warzones and dings 60 with 59 valor, they still have to spend 5 valor levels in normals before being able to queue ranked. Forces them to experience end-game PVP without just instantly queuing ranked for the quicker commendation grind.

 

4) Bring back a softer version of 8v8 ranked WZs, which will solely be populated by 4 man pre-mades. You would still be able to queue up to 3 players in a group for normal warzones, helping reduce the amount of warzones where full pre-mades go stomping PUGs which we all see daily. People will argue that ranked 8v8 would never pop if the system worked like this, but you only have to take a look at the amount of posts made about bringing 8v8 back, and the number of people who claimed to have quit due to the removal of 8v8 ranked, to see that it just might work, in terms of population. Either way, boo hoo you can't have your perfect 4 man pre-made to go stomping people all night.

 

So there would be 4 PVP queue options:

 

Queue Warzone

Queue Group Ranked Warzone

Queue Solo Ranked Arena

Queue Group Ranked Arena

[Anyakaschala]

So what we saying?

 

1) On quitting a ranked solo match mid-game (or DC'ing), said player gets a 1 hour lockout from ranked PVP. This could also be a points system, where the lockout timer would be extended beyond one hour depending on the amount of RWZs they have quit over the previous week.

 

2) You can only queue for RWZ with 2018 expertise, and once queued your gear is locked the same as your spec (good bye skank tanks carrying a second set of gear). In turn remove all bolstering in RWZs.

 

3) Minimum valor 65 to queue ranked (even if a player levels by warzones and dings 60 with 59 valor, they still have to spend 5 valor levels in normals before being able to queue ranked. Forces them to experience end-game PVP without just instantly queuing ranked for the quicker commendation grind.

 

4) Bring back a softer version of 8v8 ranked WZs, which will solely be populated by 4 man pre-mades. You would still be able to queue up to 3 players in a group for normal warzones, helping reduce the amount of warzones where full pre-mades go stomping PUGs which we all see daily. People will argue that ranked 8v8 would never pop if the system worked like this, but you only have to take a look at the amount of posts made about bringing 8v8 back, and the number of people who claimed to have quit due to the removal of 8v8 ranked, to see that it just might work, in terms of population. Either way, boo hoo you can't have your perfect 4 man pre-made to go stomping people all night.

 

So there would be 4 PVP queue options:

 

Queue Warzone

Queue Group Ranked Warzone

Queue Solo Ranked Arena

Queue Group Ranked Arena

 

not too much to argue with here.

 

The only caveats I'd add to it, 1) ELO still needs to go, at least in terms of solo ranked. Too much rng about group compostition and having someones rating being determined by random strangers, and add that there really isn't enough of a population to make it work on a realistic level.

 

2) If somehow group ranked warzones actually began to happen, meaning 8v8, if that does happen, then the only things you actually play are 8v8. queue ranked arena if you want arena and deathmatch 4v4, queue wz if you want 8v8 objective based pvp.

[WannEras]

Yeah, just change the system so that it groups 4 man pre-mades together and pays out ranked comms. Keep the ELO crap because it usually doesn't signify anything anyway, but keeps certain parts of the community happy in terms of being able to wave their e-peen around.

 

Even on our almost-dead server (TOFN), it's my understanding that grouped ranked is still taking place regularly. If group arenas are popping, 8v8 with 4 man pre-mades is definitely going to pop, especially since a lot of the players who hate arenas will actually start queuing purposely for the 8v8 ranked.

 

Now bring cross-server queues in and..... ***BOOOOOOM***

Edited March 14, 2015 by WannEras

[DethlaHadyn]

Any system would be unable to quell 8 friends from padding their "wins" in a group scenario. If those players wanted to do that at the wee hours of the morning, they would be eventually be called on it, for the pvp communities on each server are relatively small.

 

For solo-que, trolls wouldn't be able to hurt other players, while in turn provide victory insurance to their "friends/employers", and there would a lot more players queing up to enjoy pvp.

 

 

 

I don't have a new system worked out, but I'd suggest something like this:

 

 

• Arena victories grant both a generic rating, the same commendations, credits and a token.
  
• Losing grants the normal commendations and credits we have now, but no negative rating, and no token.
  
• Tokens would be used to purchase new elite gear/items/mounts that could be purchased while the season was active. This new gear would be cosmetic of course, but would completely be the most outstanding set of gear on the fleet, and there would need to be a good variety.
  
• Additional End of season rewards could still go to the top players, and of course that would be up to bioware to decide what they may be.
   
  
• The neat part about this, is that there would be daily bonus achievements that would grant extra tokens.
  
• Examples of these would be "Three Consecutive wins = 5 tokens" and "Six Consecutive wins = 10 tokens".
  
• In essence, the skilled players would still want to try their hardest to keep winning, for they would be able to get enough tokens to purchase the new gear(or items) from the new Elite Ranked Vendor that much quicker.
  
• Earning these "Daily Consecutive Wins" would not only provide a token bonus, but also a rating bonus.
  

 

 

 

At the end of the day, if a player logs on, plays 5 matches and loses them all, well that's tough luck, but at least they can still build themselves up the next time they try, without the pressure of getting wins just to even themselves out. The players who win 5 games in a row, now have a lot of tokens, and will be able to aquire the elite items/gear quicker. Ultimately the end of the season, would still grant players rewards for total wins earned throughout the season ( 25 wins- 50 wins - 100 wins, etc), so the casual player still gets something despite being unable to achieve as many "Consecutives". Players who do get a lot of consecutive wins are granted additional titles and those players would in essence become the top ranked players(and there could be tiers for those as well).

 

 

 

Can you dig it?

 

 

 

Sorry to bug..

 

But Eric, are we foolish to think that the Ranked Arena Rating System might be getting overhauled, or are we simply to trust instead in your team's troll patrol? I can't speak for everyone, but I think the word on the street, is that the current ELO system has got to go. People are ready for something better suited for our pvp communities here on swtor.

[kvandertulip]

Same habitual "t-rol" quitter, still leaving at the start of matches. What is the f***ing point of this if the same person gets to keep doing this with impunity. Every single player on Jedi Covenant has reported this guy. Warnings mean nothing to this type of person. He is going to keep doing this until he is banned.

[TheWhiplash]

Same habitual "t-rol" quitter, still leaving at the start of matches. What is the f***ing point of this if the same person gets to keep doing this with impunity. Every single player on Jedi Covenant has reported this guy. Warnings mean nothing to this type of person. He is going to keep doing this until he is banned.

 

Agreed, ruining ranked matches for everyone and still nothing done to said person. To the point where I don't queue anymore unless I know for sure "it" is offline but still get matched with him...

[SlightlySychotic]

Sorry to bug..

 

But Eric, are we foolish to think that the Ranked Arena Rating System might be getting overhauled, or are we simply to trust instead in your team's troll patrol? I can't speak for everyone, but I think the word on the street, is that the current ELO system has got to go. People are ready for something better suited for our pvp communities here on swtor.

 

Probably unlikely to happen by season 5. If we're lucky we might see a change to this by season 6 or 7. To be fair, they have to:

1) Achieve some semblance of balance. Hopefully the changes in the pipe will start to reign things in, but we still haven't seen any changes for agents/smugglers yet. Those changes probably won't even be out until the end of season 4. Even when they're done they'll probably want to do one last assessment to make sure a prior change hasn't thrown something out of whack and doesn't require one more tweak.

2) Bolster desperately needs a fix. Obviously mid-tier is just flat out broken. Some people might say that's not a priority but the longer it persists the greater the impact will be on endgame: throwing under-geared or under-skilled players into the population and just generally stunting PvP's growth. Even endgame bolster needs a tweak so that players in just basic don't suffer such a negative impact.

I don't think they can do both these things at once since they both require internal testing. And I'd like to think any new rating system would undergo some degree of testing as well in the hope that we don't end up with another crappy system.

 

Of course, to be fair I don't know how elastic their Elo system is. Could be that they can just fiddle with the values, in which case just making it so you don't lose more points with a loss than you can gain with a win would be a drastic improvement.

[StepTNT]

(...)

Of course, to be fair I don't know how elastic their Elo system is. Could be that they can just fiddle with the values, in which case just making it so you don't lose more points with a loss than you can gain with a win would be a drastic improvement.

 

It doesn't matter how elatci their Elo may be because, as Wikipedia says, The Elo rating system is a method for calculating the relative skill levels of players in competitor-versus-competitor games such as chess.

 

Elo is not meant to work in team games

[Jaiyne]

I await my email warning even with a stupidly low rating as we ran into a new team last night (whereas until now our first 10 games were against basically one team with a much stronger comp than our own ^^) and won every game. We even tried to give them advice since this is the most unfriendly ranked meta since arenas launched - any new team needs a lot of encouragement to keep going (which they probably won't...). Not saying much other than without at least one Hatred sin on your team, it's pretty much about getting farmed all season. We don't run a sin. #thestruggle

 

Still no meaningful nerfs for Hatred btw...gg!

Edited March 14, 2015 by Jaiyne

[DethlaHadyn]

Probably unlikely to happen by season 5. If we're lucky we might see a change to this by season 6 or 7. To be fair, they have to:

1) Achieve some semblance of balance. Hopefully the changes in the pipe will start to reign things in, but we still haven't seen any changes for agents/smugglers yet. Those changes probably won't even be out until the end of season 4. Even when they're done they'll probably want to do one last assessment to make sure a prior change hasn't thrown something out of whack and doesn't require one more tweak.

2) Bolster desperately needs a fix. Obviously mid-tier is just flat out broken. Some people might say that's not a priority but the longer it persists the greater the impact will be on endgame: throwing under-geared or under-skilled players into the population and just generally stunting PvP's growth. Even endgame bolster needs a tweak so that players in just basic don't suffer such a negative impact.

I don't think they can do both these things at once since they both require internal testing. And I'd like to think any new rating system would undergo some degree of testing as well in the hope that we don't end up with another crappy system.

 

Of course, to be fair I don't know how elastic their Elo system is. Could be that they can just fiddle with the values, in which case just making it so you don't lose more points with a loss than you can gain with a win would be a drastic improvement.

 

All valid points, but if a new system was introduced you would see the ranked community at least triple in size. The Brightside about that, is that there would be a greater variety of classes queing up which means less class stacking, which as we know, often compounds the balance issues.

 

Bolster is alright in theory, for a lot of times we all have growing pains on our alts. Example, my PT had augmented armor, MH/OH, but my exhumed relics and implants were not. I didn't want to spend the money augmenting something I was only going to use for a couple days. Bolster helped with the endurance, and helped me contribute to the team.

 

You're right, there would need to be a lot of testing and programming on their end. First question is, will we get a focused answer from them about the possibilities of a new rating system based on our feedback?

[DerSchneider]

What about sync queuers? Will they be untouched, while basically exploiting?

[safarm]

Hey, I would like to do some ranked group warzones, but they aren't poping so I thought of making 2 guild teams and playing againts each other, but question is. Does it count as win-trading even if we will be fair and kill ourselfs as they were another enemies and not another guild members?

[EnzoForMe]

Hey, I would like to do some ranked group warzones, but they aren't poping so I thought of making 2 guild teams and playing againts each other, but question is. Does it count as win-trading even if we will be fair and kill ourselfs as they were another enemies and not another guild members?

 

 

 

It shouldn't be. Switch around the players from both teams if one is winning every game for fairness too.

[Anyakaschala]

Hey, I would like to do some ranked group warzones, but they aren't poping so I thought of making 2 guild teams and playing againts each other, but question is. Does it count as win-trading even if we will be fair and kill ourselfs as they were another enemies and not another guild members?

good point. I wish there was a way that you could just go and practice arenas, or even 8's. group v group for guild epeen title or just friends that want to play a match of huttball, or create their own huttball league.

[oked]

So my question is to you what are you going to do for ME? ive lost roughly 300 rating on my main due to griefers/trolls, either just leaving over and over or just running in and not doing anything

 

I love this game and I love star wars and I love ranked but it feels like half the time I dont even have a chance because one of our players is there simply to throw a match, add this to the fact that ppl can go in with pve gear or no gear for that matter and it really makes this game well....not fun.

 

My advice no my demand is that when someone is trolling get on that and kick them from the game and ban their location permanently, yea you loose some money but it makes the rest of us happier campers because thats one less troll.

[DethlaHadyn]

So my question is to you what are you going to do for ME? ive lost roughly 300 rating on my main due to griefers/trolls, either just leaving over and over or just running in and not doing anything

 

I love this game and I love star wars and I love ranked but it feels like half the time I dont even have a chance because one of our players is there simply to throw a match, add this to the fact that ppl can go in with pve gear or no gear for that matter and it really makes this game well....not fun.

 

My advice no my demand is that when someone is trolling get on that and kick them from the game and ban their location permanently, yea you loose some money but it makes the rest of us happier campers because thats one less troll.

 

The entire ratings and rewards program needs to be completely revamped. /Thread.

[Drklight]

So nothing about regular pvp? Nothing at all about the unbalanced teams? or premades going against pubs? or having 5 vs 6 or 5 vs 7 matches from start of match not cause people left? Or people joining in and go to the team which already has more players then you do on your team? Or people who purposely lose regular matches? Nothing about that at all? Instead you have Eric spend a minute writing something that for one most of us already know and don't actually address the bigger issues such as the outrageous balance issue. Thank you for slapping us PvPer's in the face.......AGAIN.

 

P.S. way to accuse the wrong people of cheating. i reported a guy for win trading just cause he doesnt like me and kept queing in solo ranked in pve gear and yet hes able to do the next day. Thanks a lot for the rating points i and the other two players lost

Edited March 25, 2015 by Drklight
wanted to say more

[foxmob]

So nothing about regular pvp? Nothing at all about the unbalanced teams? or premades going against pubs? or having 5 vs 6 or 5 vs 7 matches from start of match not cause people left? Or people joining in and go to the team which already has more players then you do on your team? Or people who purposely lose regular matches? Nothing about that at all? Instead you have Eric spend a minute writing something that for one most of us already know and don't actually address the bigger issues such as the outrageous balance issue. Thank you for slapping us PvPer's in the face.......AGAIN.

 

P.S. way to accuse the wrong people of cheating. i reported a guy for win trading just cause he doesnt like me and kept queing in solo ranked in pve gear and yet hes able to do the next day. Thanks a lot for the rating points i and the other two players lost

 

reg pvp has been, and always will be, a crapshoot without any degree of matchmaking save for the token limit of 4 players queued in the same group. the reason for this is to facilitate faster pops (also, arenas max out at 4, so larger groups would break the queue, since it includes both game types).

 

I'm sure everyone in the game would prefer to have regs take role into account to some degree so that one team is rolling 3 heals and a tank while the other has all dps, but tremors in the force suggest this is never going to happen, and BW won't even dignify it with a reply because it would open a can of worms (follow-up questions) that they will have no reply for.

[MotorCityMan]

Tournament style play is never fun, except for the winners. Once the pecking order is set, there is nothing for players to get out of it, so it dies.

 

Why game companies persist in offering this format as ongoing game play is somewhere in the realm of stupidity.

[Najentus]

Ok ... so season 4 has come to an end and nothing happend to wintraders as far as I've seen it. Players on Vanjervalis Chain and T3-M4 that are server wide known for wintrading run around with S4 weapons, mounts and even top 96 (or whatever it was) titles. It's so annoying and frustrating seeing these people that die in a real arena fight within seconds (simply because they can't play any of their classes and didn't practice playing together in a group of four) run around with literally everything you can get from a season, while your own team won most of their fights, has a good rating but due to a lack of groups listing you can't push it any higher to reach your goals for that season.

Same thing with queue syncs in solo rated. I mean I don't really care about my solo queue rating but playing against 3 out of 4 members or even a complete group arena team is simply ridiculous. It's simply exploiting - hands down, end of discussion.

 

Next thing I would like to mention is offtopic but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE - make something about those PvE players that list in soloqueue. 2018 expertise should be the minimum requirement to list solo. If a group of PvE players list together for 4vs4 it's their own fault if they get torn apart from PvP players. But in solo queue it's like a 3 vs 4 battle - end this madness

Edited April 30, 2015 by Najentus