12 x XP for class-missions

[Ratajack]

This is the best part, when I and others repeatedly state that we arent asking for a fast track to 60/endgame i win button, we are called liars, lazy, stupid, selfish "wont be there to help my lowbies through heroucs & flashpoints" jerks.

 

As i have said before, i have multiple characters that are sitting at 50 or somewhere between 50 and 60 that will stay right where they are. I saw their class stories, i have no need to level them further. No engame i win needed for them!

 

Also stated before, if bioware would ket us replay class stories, i would have ZERO NEED OR WANT for 12xp. But they wont, so if i want to redo the stories, its all on alts, that i dont want to slog through all the boring planetary chains again on. I dont want to read a book, pick up another one and find out 75% of it is the book i just read and be told "you have to read the parts you already read 15 times too or your a awful terrible lazy person"

 

Dont like pvp, wont level that way. Have vertigo so Galactic Starfighter is out. They nerfed the hell out of starfox space xp long ago so thats not a good option. Heroics and flashpoints are out because im sorry but im not interested in having to find 3 others that usually end up being mouthbreathers that only know how to stand in stupid or find other assinine ways to die.

 

I would wholeheartedly support a story line reset using the criteria that Liquor put forth.

 

I think you will find very few of those demanding a 12XP boost would be satisfied with that, though.

 

IMO, this is because many of them simply want the "light speed, easy mode, fast pass" method of leveling, despite their claims to the contrary.

[Liquor]

I would wholeheartedly support a story line reset using the criteria that Liquor put forth.

 

I think you will find very few of those demanding a 12XP boost would be satisfied with that, though.

 

IMO, this is because many of them simply want the "light speed, easy mode, fast pass" method of leveling, despite their claims to the contrary.

 

IMO the combination from previous threads on the story mission requests throughout the years, and what we have discussed on the x12XP subject to be the best option for the devs to look into.

 

I can see an option to reset the story mission series. its a hard trigger in the game. one that could be reset. the missions follow a path, its a 0 value when you first start a new character. as you complete missions within the story each mission generates a 1 value to show completion. all that would need to be done is a small string of coding to turn those all back to 0's. then another line to remove mission rewards from the completion announcement ingame.

 

this will keep those missions you have not completed yet as 0s and their rewards still available. its not a lot of work to code in. test and tweak as needed. but is there enough interest to convince the Devs to do this? I think so

 

 

Story Mission Reset Switch:

 

• the leveling process doesn't change.
  
• the option to reset the story missions as many times as you like.
  
• able to reset the mission series at anytime.
  
• but once reset, no mission rewards, credits, XP is given from previous completed story missions
  
• Alignment gains and loses are active since they apply to choices and direction of story lines
  
• Companion Affection stays as it can impact the story a small amount - mostly your decisions on options
  
• if you reset at the end of chapter 1, beginning of chapter 2, you still receive xp, credits, rewards for the story missions you have not completed yet.

 

so the leveling process can continue "where you left off". but once completed, you are not rewarded a 2nd time.

this will prevent farming of anything from story missions. in case anything of value is actually added to a following line later on

 

added the alignment. it does impact story line choices and thus should still be active.

companion affection stays

 

making a new thread just for this to gage interest Link to Thread

Edited March 10, 2015 by Liquor

[XiamaraSimi]

making a new thread just for this to gage interest Link to Thread

 

Read and replied!

[EliteSeraph]

The idea that everyone has to, or should, play the game at the same pace, or experience it in the same way is a fundamentally flawed concept.

 

Despite what some people would have you think, PvE is not competitive. Monsters don't run out of experience or loot, nor do they disappear after being killed once. Someone getting an item or accomplishing something in the game does not stop anyone else from doing the same.

 

The game encompasses multiple different play styles, including PvP, raiding, story missions, grinding, etc. Attempting to limit or force players to only play in a single way, much less attempting to force them to play your way, is flat out stupid and arrogant. What someone else decides to do has virtually no significant effect on you outside of PvP(which is largely irrelevant outside of level cap anyway).

 

How fast or slow a person reaches level cap does not in any way diminish your own leveling choices or accomplishments.

If you wish to play at a certain pace then the responsibility for that is on you to find like minded players. It is not your right to impose your style of play off on anyone else. If the only way that you can get enjoyment from leveling is by imposing your preferences on everyone around you, then the problem is with you not with the game.

 

12x has not, and will not ruin the game. The entire argument boils down to not liking things that someone else likes. Be confident in your own playstyle. Have fun doing that and stop spending so much time, anger, and effort trying to force everyone to play the same way you do.

[Ratajack]

The idea that everyone has to, or should, play the game at the same pace, or experience it in the same way is a fundamentally flawed concept.

 

Despite what some people would have you think, PvE is not competitive. Monsters don't run out of experience or loot, nor do they disappear after being killed once. Someone getting an item or accomplishing something in the game does not stop anyone else from doing the same.

 

The game encompasses multiple different play styles, including PvP, raiding, story missions, grinding, etc. Attempting to limit or force players to only play in a single way, much less attempting to force them to play your way, is flat out stupid and arrogant. What someone else decides to do has virtually no significant effect on you outside of PvP(which is largely irrelevant outside of level cap anyway).

 

How fast or slow a person reaches level cap does not in any way diminish your own leveling choices or accomplishments.

If you wish to play at a certain pace then the responsibility for that is on you to find like minded players. It is not your right to impose your style of play off on anyone else. If the only way that you can get enjoyment from leveling is by imposing your preferences on everyone around you, then the problem is with you not with the game.

 

12x has not, and will not ruin the game. The entire argument boils down to not liking things that someone else likes. Be confident in your own playstyle. Have fun doing that and stop spending so much time, anger, and effort trying to force everyone to play the same way you do.

 

Those of us who are against the 12XP are not "forcing you to play the game a certain way" or "forcing you to play the game the same we do". We do not make the rules. BW does.

 

We are not the ones asking BW change the game in order to cater to our aversion to the minimal effort required to level those new alts or to experience those story lines.

 

We are just making our voices heard and asking that BW NOT change the game, that they NOT cater to those too averse to the minimal effort required to level those new alts or to experience those stories.

[FerkWork]

Side note: 3 hours of play at max class mission XP and boost I was able to go from 1-10. If this rate continues I will have my Sin tank in no time. Then I will have all 3

 

Although I find Jug tanking ponderous.

Edited March 11, 2015 by FerkWork

[Djiini]

I would wholeheartedly support a story line reset using the criteria that Liquor put forth.

 

I think you will find very few of those demanding a 12XP boost would be satisfied with that, though.

 

IMO, this is because many of them simply want the "light speed, easy mode, fast pass" method of leveling, despite their claims to the contrary.

 

Are you implying that sidequesting is difficult?

Because time consuming =/= Difficult.

[Toweleeeie]

I just want more raiding toons so I can join any group shouting.

[EliteSeraph]

Those of us who are against the 12XP are not "forcing you to play the game a certain way" or "forcing you to play the game the same we do". We do not make the rules. BW does.

 

We are not the ones asking BW change the game in order to cater to our aversion to the minimal effort required to level those new alts or to experience those story lines.

 

We are just making our voices heard and asking that BW NOT change the game, that they NOT cater to those too averse to the minimal effort required to level those new alts or to experience those stories.

 

Perhaps 'forcing' was the wrong choice of words. Let me attempt to rephrase.

 

The current discussion is about the theoretical situation where the game has an unlock for permanent 12x experience on class missions. In that version of the game, players would have the option to play how they want, rather than how someone else thinks they should. There's a strong implication from MANY posters in this thread that people should not even have that choice at all. That they should be required to play in the same manner as the current game. And that anything else is unacceptable, and should not even be considered by the devs.

 

Right now 12x isn't available. But arguing against it's implementation as an unlockable, or purchasable option, is an attempt to deny players the possibility of playing in the manner that they would prefer. There's also a strong implication that the desire for other styles of play are not legitimate.

 

And for what? As I said in my previous post, there's no evidence to support the claim that 12x would be detrimental to the game or any of it's players. Yes, some players would use it as a fast track to 60. Why is that a problem? How does it stop you from enjoying the game and playing it how YOU choose to play?

Edited March 11, 2015 by EliteSeraph

[EnkiduNineEight]

I honestly don't see how someone wanting to rush through "content" for the 3rd time or more will affect your ( you people who think 12x XP is a crime against humanity ) gameplay experience. What's the big deal with being obsessed with ruining other players' gaming experience?

 

I honestly don't see how someone who can see the bigger picture and how a selfish desire can do damage to an established system and advocates you play by the current rules of the game can be seen as being obsessed with ruining your gameplay experience.

 

I can't help the fact that you seem pathologically unable to understand that giving you a HUGE bonus while restricting it from new players DOES affect other peoples games.

 

I can't help the fact you can not understand how this creates an extremely easy method to exploit unbalanced character classes and damage the end game experience as it becomes overwhelmed with FOTM classes. (It already happens, this would make it worse).

 

I can't help that you are obsessed with getting something for yourself and only yourself (well, granted you'll let other people who meet some arbitrary standards that fluctuate based on the standards you yourself have already met) and can't possibly fathom how this affects other players.

 

Even in Single Player RPG's if you want to see the whole storyline for multiple classes/builds you have to play the entire game multiple times and generally this includes the sidequests etc that are necessary to ensure you level at a rate so that you can manage the final encounters.

 

Its a RPG not a FPS.

[LoverNoFighter]

I honestly don't see how someone who can see the bigger picture and how a selfish desire can do damage to an established system and advocates you play by the current rules of the game can be seen as being obsessed with ruining your gameplay experience.

 

I can't help the fact that you seem pathologically unable to understand that giving you a HUGE bonus while restricting it from new players DOES affect other peoples games.

 

I can't help the fact you can not understand how this creates an extremely easy method to exploit unbalanced character classes and damage the end game experience as it becomes overwhelmed with FOTM classes. (It already happens, this would make it worse).

 

I can't help that you are obsessed with getting something for yourself and only yourself (well, granted you'll let other people who meet some arbitrary standards that fluctuate based on the standards you yourself have already met) and can't possibly fathom how this affects other players.

 

Even in Single Player RPG's if you want to see the whole storyline for multiple classes/builds you have to play the entire game multiple times and generally this includes the sidequests etc that are necessary to ensure you level at a rate so that you can manage the final encounters.

 

Its a RPG not a FPS.

 

Lots of words but no punch.

FPS or RPG got nothing to do with my point.

You still haven't eplxained how me getting a level capped toon instead of having to grind through stuff I ALREADY DID 3 TIMES BEFORE will damage YOUR gameplay.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Actually it was security bot and we always had someone "dead" (usually guy who tanked it). It's just that ads taking ages to destroy and we had to do 2/3 ppl on adds -> boss barely taking any damage.

 

Sounds like a PUG that was poorly equipped to play and didn't really understand their classes. The security bot is one of the longer end fights but with the health dispensers and 4 DPS characters you should be able to manage it fine and if its taking you too long to get the adds down, your DPS are terribad. I'dwager people weren't paying attention to the ground targets and other indicators of the big damage attacks.

 

I understand that sounds 'elitist' and it is to some extent. Its also possibly an argument as to why skipping all the low level content as many people are able to do because KDY etc can allow 2-3 good players to easily carry one horrible one is a bad idea, as even people who have repeated this content many times aren't actually very good at it.

[Papazmurf]

Lots of words but no punch.

FPS or RPG got nothing to do with my point.

You still haven't eplxained how me getting a level capped toon instead of having to grind through stuff I ALREADY DID 3 TIMES BEFORE will damage YOUR gameplay.

 

lol you should've brought up the single player game point as well he mentioned.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Define laziness though. Not wanting to do pointless grind is not being lazy. I already have a day job that produces money. Why would I want to slave over a pointless grind to actually unlock a content I want. There is no sense of achievement. Running same missions or flashpoints over and over is not something to be proud of. It's pure drill and grind. I want to skip that so I can get what I want, well if that makes me lazy, so be it.

 

Dude, not wanting to put forth the effort to earn the experience it takes to advance levels in an RPG (MMO RPG) is the very definition of being lazy.

 

You do not want to exert the effort required gain the experience points to advance your level. You want instead the game to cater to you and change the system and provide a method for you to do one thing you claim to like so that by doing just this one thing not only do you get what you want but you get it at a rate of acquisition that far exceeds anyone doing it the 'normal' way.

 

Lazy is the perfect word to describe this desire. I don't care if you weren't lazy when you did it on previous characters. That you no longer wish to do it indicates you are lazy AND feel entitled by past efforts to skip the leveling process.

[EnkiduNineEight]

And for the record...call it lazy if you want (to not want to grind after all the toons I do have). I call it boredom. I quit TESO because after I got one toon to VR14 (which if you think SWOTR is bad to get to lvl 60...you aint seen nothing), I could not stomach the grind. I will just take my $$$ elsewhere again until an expansion releases.... as Im sure a lot of us 8-10+ SWTOR toon folks will.

 

And this is something EVERY MMO has to deal with. Even WoW shows huge declines in its subs once all the new content of a released expansion gets explored by the people who came back on its release. Some players are 'die hards' and they stick with it no matter what, providing a consistent revenue stream. Others are only attracted to novelty and they jump from game to game sub and unsub frequently providing a somewhat predictable but unreliable revenue stream.

 

For a game (MMO) to prosper it needs to attract new players so it can convert more of those new players into the reliable revenue stream. This is why the experience of the game for a _NEW_ player is so very important to the long term health of a MMO because if you do not hook/engage them they do not have a chance to be converted to either type of revenue stream.

 

A program like what is being requested generates a short term bump in the revenue stream for ONLY those unpredictable content gobbler players who will, again, unsubscribe and quit playing once they have gotten their fill.

 

So if this solution also generates problems for the new players, and diminishes their game experience, the short term bump is not worth it financially. It ends up costing them more money. I think BioWare/EA should likely be catching on to this fact after the various moves and changes they have made over time has borne out these results. Just in case they haven't people like myself and others try to point it out to them (and you) when they respond to threads like this.

 

Bear in mind, I have two of every base class, one of every advanced class, in game. I have 20 characters total, though 4 are mules. I have two placeholder characters just so I have the max and hold down some names I like. I've been legacy level 50 for an extremely long time. I also get bored leveling up a new character and doing the same content and thus would meet any criteria you set for achievements in game before being allowed to get 12x EXP. I also have several hundred million credits sitting in guild banks. I could benefit from this idea, but I recognize my benefit would be short term because I have been subbed to this game continuously since release and participated in closed and open betas prior and that an introduction such of this would likely diminish the longevity of the game I enjoy.

 

Thus I will continue to argue (vociferously) against any sort of plan that provides benefit to a class of player that was already going to quit their subs when they got bored. Especially if what they want is something that would enable them to quit sooner rather than later.

 

So how about this. If you prepay for two years of subscription fees at the highest cost ($14.95) you get 12x exp and there are no refunds. So even if you get bored and quit playing you still paid and you can even come back and play more when they add content for up to two years from the time you gained your 12x exp. I'm not sure I would seriously suggest this though because it still damages entry level game for new players.

Edited March 11, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[EnkiduNineEight]

you're correct, it would increae low lvl play . . . for a limited time though. once they reach their goals on said lowbies, they will no longer be lowbies. new players will catch onto the fast lane and wont stick around much on these low lvl planets. maybe a hour or so for each planet. it is not sustainable long term.

 

I want to address this as it has been addressed before.

 

The number of low level characters may increase. The number of these characters participating in content that was not the story line would NOT increase. Most of these players have already indicated by their clamouring fo 12x XP that they don't want to do anything but the story. So they would single player their brief time as low level characters running just the missions they wanted to run and they would contribute nothing to the environment of low level players.

 

So they may even be seen as a detriment because a new player's experience will be that no one talks/participates/helps and will give the perception that the game is less than a multiplayer experience.

 

And this is exactly what 12x supporters want and say they want, they just want to play the game by themselves and do just what they want to do and nothing else ever. They want to turn a MMO into a SP RPG, but with cheat codes so they don't even have to do the leveling process a SP RPG requires as well.

 

So the additional 'low level characters' would not be beneficial to the game. AND as you point out, the bump would be short term.

[EnkiduNineEight]

Lots of words but no punch.

FPS or RPG got nothing to do with my point.

You still haven't eplxained how me getting a level capped toon instead of having to grind through stuff I ALREADY DID 3 TIMES BEFORE will damage YOUR gameplay.

 

Asked and answered. _repeatedly_.

 

You getting an instant or near instant level capped character means that FOTM characters are easily created and this _significantly_ diminishes the play experience for every other player of the game OR forces them to do the same.

 

Powertech's Currently face-roll easy mode End Game PVP Class and the best way to get ranking for PVP rewards, then everyone makes a face-rolling easy mode powertech, flooding the PVP game with a broken class, diminishing significantly the play experience of every player not playing a face-rolling easy mode powertech.

 

PVE - Same deal, if a FOTM class performs so much better in End Game content that every one has to have one in order to get into a PUG and not be kicked, you either have to suffer having a less than stellar end game experience with your current character OR you have to join in and make your insta-easymode character.

 

YOUR easy mode/insta-capped character DOES damage the play experience of other players.

 

let alone what it does to the dynamics of the system be removing the need for interaction at various early levels so that the play experience from every player who does not have access to your iWin easymode pay to win suggestion is diminished.

 

This has been Asked and answered but you are so stuck on yourself, no answer is going to be satisfactory to you because you are absolutely of the mindset that what you do has absolutely no effect on other players.

 

In a MULTIPLAYER environment, every time you participate in a MULTIPLAYER activity that is level gated and you got your level for that character through insta-levelling or easy mode leveling you diminish the experience for someone who was unable to do the same especially if they are left out of that content because you chose a FOTM class.

 

And that _will_ happen. It already does happen with how absurdly easy leveling is in this game and you just want to give them a tool to make it even easier.

 

Maybe you are a paragon of virtue and you would not exploit that system. maybe you have plans to just do everything in a non-impactive way. Unfortunately, systems can not be set up based on the expectations that everyone has the very best of intentions.

 

Not with our species.

Edited March 11, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Yojiro]

The more you feed the SWG troll, the more nonsense he'll spew. Edited March 11, 2015 by Yojiro

[LoverNoFighter]

He's a SWG troll. The more you feed him, the more nonsense he'll spew.

 

SWG is dead yet you keep bringing it up.

[EllieAnne]

Question for Ratajack, Liquor & Ekidu

Have you EVER had a toon under level 60 and

Used an XP tab?

Played during double XP weekend?

Received 12xXP during the promotion?

Been in a guild providing XP addons?

[EnkiduNineEight]

Question for Ratajack, Liquor & Ekidu

Have you EVER had a toon under level 60 and

Used an XP tab?

Played during double XP weekend?

Received 12xXP during the promotion?

Been in a guild providing XP addons?

 

Trying to capture people and make them out to be hypocrites?

I have used XP tabs, mostly because I had a short time to play and was close to leveling and I just wanted to hit the milestone before I quit for the night. I basically sell every one I get that is able to be sold. I use the valour tabs as well received from the cube quests you could receive from the cartel Packs/Your collection to get a valour boost... Usually so I could make my valour match my current level so I could avoid queueing PVP and getting experience I didn't want/need as it would push me to out-level other content.

I have played during double XP weekends. I enjoy the game and its an activity I look forward to when I can play the game. I DO NOT LIKE getting double XP personally and I do find it problematic for the game as a whole and have said so in this thread (I have indicated on multiple occasions I believe they've compounded too many ways to speed up leveling and this has done damage to the 'start game' and new player engagement) Still, I am not going to stop doing something I like just because they put something in I would rather be able to turn off but can't.

I purposefully avoided doing many class quests during the 12x XP promotion. I didn't want to out-level the content and I enjoy helping people with stuff/doing planetary heroics, etc.

If you are in a guild, you get 5% minimum. So, yes, I have been in a guild and received extra experience. I'm in a guild of my own creation for my own convenience. I can't help but get the added experience but I am not going to dissolve the guild of my creation and lose the guild bank I paid for, etc.

 

None of this makes any of us who answer your clumsy attempt at a 'gotcha' question a hypocrite. Many of these things you can not avoid at all and continue playing the game. I think its well established that I enjoy the game and want to continue playing it into the future. So I am not going to throw a pouty tantrum and threaten to quit unless I get what I want.

 

I will argue strongly against things I know that will diminish the game significantly. And 12x XP will do exactly that. There are already ample bonuses to experience that can speed up play and which have eroded the game experience already such that an _additional_ change of such great magnitude as 12x XP would break things significantly and are unnecessary considering the existing options.

 

So using an XP tab, or taking advantage of a 2x XP weekend in no way equates to support for 12x nor does it demonstrate hypocrisy, especially when many other people who have replied have already used the existence of these alternatives as demonstration of why specifically 12x XP is unneeded.

Edited March 11, 2015 by EnkiduNineEight

[Ratajack]

Perhaps 'forcing' was the wrong choice of words. Let me attempt to rephrase.

 

The current discussion is about the theoretical situation where the game has an unlock for permanent 12x experience on class missions. In that version of the game, players would have the option to play how they want, rather than how someone else thinks they should. There's a strong implication from MANY posters in this thread that people should not even have that choice at all. That they should be required to play in the same manner as the current game. And that anything else is unacceptable, and should not even be considered by the devs.

 

Right now 12x isn't available. But arguing against it's implementation as an unlockable, or purchasable option, is an attempt to deny players the possibility of playing in the manner that they would prefer. There's also a strong implication that the desire for other styles of play are not legitimate.

 

And for what? As I said in my previous post, there's no evidence to support the claim that 12x would be detrimental to the game or any of it's players. Yes, some players would use it as a fast track to 60. Why is that a problem? How does it stop you from enjoying the game and playing it how YOU choose to play?

 

 

You must either be ignoring or forgetting the fiasco that was fallout from the last 12XP.

 

Let's start with all the forums demands for free, preferably upgrading gear, so that players did not have to upgrade their gear as they rode that fast track to level cap.

 

Then, we can look at what happened with FP's and OP's and the GF tool, as well as the tools that used it. Again, the forums will provide ample evidence of exacty how 12XP affected the game play experience of others and was detrimental to the game as a whole.

 

The evidence is abundant. No one can make you open your eyes to see it, though, if you refuse to open them in your zeal for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass, cater to my laziness" means of leveling.

[Ratajack]

Lots of words but no punch.

FPS or RPG got nothing to do with my point.

You still haven't eplxained how me getting a level capped toon instead of having to grind through stuff I ALREADY DID 3 TIMES BEFORE will damage YOUR gameplay.

 

He has explained that many times.

 

You just refuse to open your eyes to see it.

[Yojiro]

He has explained that many times.

 

You just refuse to open your eyes to see it.

 

He got it. He's just trolling.

[TUXs]

You must either be ignoring or forgetting the fiasco that was fallout from the last 12XP.

 

Let's start with all the forums demands for free, preferably upgrading gear, so that players did not have to upgrade their gear as they rode that fast track to level cap.

 

Then, we can look at what happened with FP's and OP's and the GF tool, as well as the tools that used it. Again, the forums will provide ample evidence of exacty how 12XP affected the game play experience of others and was detrimental to the game as a whole.

 

The evidence is abundant. No one can make you open your eyes to see it, though, if you refuse to open them in your zeal for a "light speed, easy mode, fast pass, cater to my laziness" means of leveling.

OMG lol! Your false dramatization about how bad this was is complete and absolute bull.

 

12xXP was great for the game, bad players remained bad players and people got their gear like they always did.

 

Only nosy people with no life care how anyone reached 60...it's absolutely a non-factor...seriously, why the hell do you care HOW someone reaches 60?! It's a freaking game...enjoy it!!! If that means a new 60 to play with, great!!! If that means leveling up the original way, go for it!