Why do you refuse to tank/heal?

[ImmortalLowlife]

Personally, whenever I do group content I ONLY heal. I generally only run certain FP's, and I've got so many alts at various lvls that it's no problem to find one at whatever lvl I need. My main is a lvl 60 Sith Sorcerer, and ALL I do is heal...it's what I'm best at.

[Tfranco]

My reason is plain and simple: other people.

 

Everytime I que as tank or healer the dps in my group are road raging testosterone filled apes with an itchy trigger finger who pull all the mobs and die. Then spend the next 30 mind explaining how I (tank healer or both) am the worst (tank or healer) they have ever seen and how I need to learn my role. And how I'm bad at this game. So yeah, that's why I don't tank in pve or pvp.

 

Surprisingly I don't have that happen in pvp as a tank/healer, so I actively try to heal now and again. (Once I have a decent pvp healing set I'll give it a whirl on my sorc again.)

[MCesca]

Honestly, I have the max 22 characters, all rolls covered. But I more or less refuse to pug at all anymore because there are too many people who don't understand or respect the roles. It almost doesn't matter which roll I would be playing, I would almost always end up in a group with some DPS that would not wait for the tank to gain threat, would die because the healer would let them die to teach them a lesson, and then they would blame everyone else for their own impatience getting themselves killed. You'd vote kick these morons, and another would appear and do the same thing all over again. So now I only group with people I know, because we all know and respect each other enough to play the roles properly, and are forgiving of mistakes made because someone is either learning a new role, or we're playing new content.

[Elyx]

However, it is a thankless job for a player to do. Like healing, tanking is a support role. It is not all flash and bang like dpsing. Rarely are you thanked for doing your part right and spot on. However, if you screw up or that mighty dpser aggro's every mob within eye shot and dies, it is the tank or healer's fault. Tanking, like healing, is a mind set. You put the team before yourself. It takes a rock solid team oriented player to fulfill these roles. That and the responsibility that comes with these support roles is a big deterrence for many players.

.

 

I think this pretty much sums it up. Not only do they expect you to be perfect, and just know the fights before your have ever done them, but after all that's said and done, it's very much a thankless job for the most part. It is true...rarely do the DPS pat themselves on the back, but in a position of the tank and healer they almost need it...lots of work, very high expectations, and very little reward. and the penalty for making a few mistakes is often 30m of people treating you like a half-human thing. Part of it is personal expectations, I'll be honest...but those expectations are often wired in after a few bad sessions with the worst players.

 

And then you run a DPS position. it's easy...it's relaxed, you can miss on occasion and people don't get all in a hissy, you can talk to your friend for a second while you do it... almost no expectations during the whole process, and on top of that, you can watch big numbers float by.

 

I've been playing MMO's since the DAoC days, and tanking in most of them. And at some point you just get tired of it all, and decide that hanging back and being a quiet, efficient DPS spec actually makes your limited play time enjoyable. I'm that quiet DPS guy that rarely gripes at a tank, prefers to offer decent advice when needed in whispers, and likes to congratulate them at the end. probably because I did it for many years. Those runs often end up with everyone feeling good, you included. Honestly, if you had to choose between those two options, stress filled run with occasional gripe and people doubting your abilities, or a nice smooth run where you help people, crack a few laughs, and come out on top...which one would you choose? when your DPS it rarely matters...when your the tank it's like rolling the dice.

 

I have no problems tanking with guild. ill even do PuG's for standard 4 man HM content. Ops? nope. I get enough pressure from work and everyday life of trying to keep my kids alive and healthy...last thing i need is a hormone driven teenager calling me whatever just because i missed a move on BOSS X and he had to take a bit of damage.

[dacentabaal]

Because Im not under any burden to occupy roles I don't want to play.

^ Pretty much this for me

[Ottoattack]

Yeah you, mr "I only DPS but play classes that can tank/heal" guy. Why do you never tank/heal in group content? Just curious about some of the reasons (excuses) people have.

 

Personally, I like all three roles, but I get tired of always having to tank or heal to get flashpoints to pop.

 

Obviously, if you only play Marauder/Sniper, ignore this question

 

I played all three roles in PvE and PvP (I am an extensive PvPer) and my main is PT and main alts are sorc and sin. For PvE, I do heal a lot, but I do not like to tank, even though I would be considered a good tank. I also do not run dailies as tank or healer, ever. As for PvP, when I am running solo, as dps, I can not carry a team of misfits as tank or healers, no way. Overtime, I migrated all my toons to dps primarily cuz I do not want to buy and aug two sets of gear. I still occasionally tank and heal in PvP, I do not in PvE anymore.

 

In my experience as well, dps can fulfill all three roles if necessary and in progression PvE and in PvP you will have to improvise. Tanks and healers are limited in that sense.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Ottoattack

[Beltane]

Going to echo what most people have said.

 

I am a healer main. I love to heal, but I haven't touched 60 HMs yet, just like I didn't touch 55 HMs til they had been out for 6 months or so. Give people time to learn them and gear up before I even bother. I was in full augged purples as soon as I hit 60 but I just have no desire to have the group mess up on difficult new content and be blamed.

 

I also genuinely love tanking and my 2nd main is a tank, yet have zero desire to do these hard flashpoints because every little error would be blamed on me. Tanking is incredibly stressful, and I'm good at it, but nobody knows that. If it's a smooth run I get no thanks, if there's a wipe everyone assumes it was my fault. Not worth it.

 

So to answer, the reason people prefer DPS tends to be because there's way less responsibility. That said, I hate DPSing, and so just won't do the 60 HMs at all til I feel like healing or tanking them.

[Caralysse]

I DPS and Heal, I never Tank. I refuse to tank, most times, but I give my guildmates crap about wanting to tank and never being allowed to do it.

Honestly I don't tank because I want to give whatever group I'm in the best chance for success that I can and I'm not a very good tank. I don't particularly like the role and am not very good at holding agro. So I stick with Heals and DPS, for the good of my team. The OP's tone seems to belittle those who don't play all 3 roles, I would say that the OP is unfamiliar with the idea of "Jack of all trades, master of none." If you stick with one role, learn it well, practice as much as you can and be the best that you can be, that is better than being mildly proficient at all 3.

 

I find that I can actually hold aggro very well if I'm DPS (and there's no really good tank). Or maybe it's just that my armor is that pretty. But I generally don't play a full-out warrior tank in any game, so my knowledge of the class hampers any usefulness I might have. Far better for the group for me to just whittle the enemy's health bars down and help support the primary healer with baby heals as needed.

[Brewski]

My main is a Jedi Guardian, and initially I tanked exclusively, but eventually I got tired of doing so for PUGs, and switched to only playing that toon for guild groups. However, I missed playing my guardian regularly, so now I DPS exclusively with that toon, and I use a Vanguard for tanking guild groups. I get to play my guardian on a more regular basis, and I still have a tank when my guild needs me.

 

So that's why I exclusively DPS on a toon primarily intended for/thought of as a tank.

[wadecounty]

I think that is implied in the OP.......

 

I have been playing since about 1.9 and until 2.6 I never even looked at the non-dps tree on my dual role classes. I was fed up with how long DPS queues on FPs took, so I read a guide, read the skill tree and the abilities, and with a few errors managed to come off as a passable FP healer. Now I nearly exclusively heal FPs to get the queue to pop quicker.

 

I think the OP is insinuating that people who whine about dps queues taking forever should consider (like I did) that maybe if everyone was open to *trying* the non-dps discipline, pugs would at least not be able to whine about slow pops. Then they would just whine about crap heals/tanks.

 

TL: DR whiners will always be whiners (check above posts for proof)

Thanks, this was definitely something I wanted to touch on, but didn't want to include in the OP because I'm still interested in all the other various reasons people refuse to tank or heal.

 

Some of it seems contradictory to me, because people say they refuse the stress of being the tank themselves... but they expect someone else to do it for them? Personally I find, in PUG's, it doesn't matter what role I play, I can be stressed or at ease, depending on the rest of the group, I don't get additional stress from tanking or healing. DPS is actually really important in the new HM's, example first fight in Blood Hunt, you can't finish unless both DPS are at least around 3.1-3.2k, which is asking a lot from PUGs.

[Xhelis]

I also genuinely love tanking and my 2nd main is a tank, yet have zero desire to do these hard flashpoints because every little error would be blamed on me. Tanking is incredibly stressful, and I'm good at it, but nobody knows that. If it's a smooth run I get no thanks, if there's a wipe everyone assumes it was my fault. Not worth it.

 

The only reason tanking is stressful is because the others in the group expect you to be perfect, while they run around acting like idiots. No thanks.

 

As I mentioned before I have 4 tanks and I will be switching them to DPS.

 

This isn't really an issue for BW to fix or address. This issue is with the players and community and is likely not going to change. So enjoy fewer tanks and healers and enjoy that loooong queue time, you've earned it.

[souloferdrick]

Some of it seems contradictory to me, because people say they refuse the stress of being the tank themselves... but they expect someone else to do it for them?

 

Doesn't a tank expect the heals to heal and dps to dps? Not everyone is comfortable in the leadership role which is automatically assumed when one is a tank for obvious reasons.

 

More people would try their hand at it if other members of the community/group were willing to break in a new tank and not be a jerk at the first sign of adversity but most puggers want a stress free ride, they want it now and they want it to be over as quickly as possible.

[Vember]

Yeah you, mr "I only DPS but play classes that can tank/heal" guy. Why do you never tank/heal in group content? Just curious about some of the reasons (excuses) people have.

 

Personally, I like all three roles, but I get tired of always having to tank or heal to get flashpoints to pop.

 

Obviously, if you only play Marauder/Sniper, ignore this question

 

Because I played a main tank in Lineage 2 for five and a half years. I'm over it.

[Xhelis]

More people would try their hand at it if other members of the community/group were willing to break in a new tank and not be a jerk at the first sign of adversity but most puggers want a stress free ride, they want it now and they want it to be over as quickly as possible.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This all day and twice on Sundays.

[SelinaH]

This isn't really an issue for BW to fix or address. This issue is with the players and community and is likely not going to change. So enjoy fewer tanks and healers and enjoy that loooong queue time, you've earned it.

I sometimes wonder whether implementing actual dual-spec and/or the ability to save alternate quickbar arrangements and bind maps would make any difference in players' willingness to try different roles on occasion.

 

Judging from the replies, probably not much.

[Caralysse]

The only reason tanking is stressful is because the others in the group expect you to be perfect, while they run around acting like idiots. No thanks.

 

And this says a lot, unfortunately.

 

Occasionally we'll run an impromptu flashpoint or tactical and need that fourth person. Now, we all know what roles we generally play (though sometimes it mixes up!), and sometimes we find that one person who is a really good (tank or dps or healer). Unfortunately, there's always more who say they're a tank - and cannot or do not hold aggro off the healer. Or they say they're a healer and simply don't heal anyone. Or - and this one really irritates me - when they're asked politely if they're set for tank / heal, suddenly they 'discover' they "forgot" to respec. We've been known to roll and succeed after such a discovery - but sometimes it just isn't possible.

 

Recently we had a guildmate who was tanking, new to the content we were running, and really making it difficult for the rest of us. We all stopped, explained the trouble, and went on to success. A PuG experience I had recently was with a healing sage (I was guardian, dps spec, with a dps sentinel and a guardian tank) who insisted on fighting toe-to-toe with the enemy --- and using knock backs constantly. We nearly chewed that guy up alive - until we calmed down and explained the problem. I don't think he understood how frustrating it was to us because he was totally used to fighting solo (still, on a sage?). He started to stay back and throw pebbles and heals - and we melee mopped the floor.

 

I'm in a really good guild, so if I want to run with others, I can usually find someone. But every now and then I'll hit group finder and hope it's a time to be pleasantly surprised rather than a time to be aggravated. Lucky for me, the good times have so far out-weighed the bad. And sometimes all it takes is for someone to be polite and say, "hey, if you did X, maybe it would be more helpful/effective" or "I'm having trouble healing you because you're running too far ahead". Maybe if more people used manners, it wouldn't be so stressful!

[wadecounty]

Doesn't a tank expect the heals to heal and dps to dps? Not everyone is comfortable in the leadership role which is automatically assumed when one is a tank for obvious reasons.

 

More people would try their hand at it if other members of the community/group were willing to break in a new tank and not be a jerk at the first sign of adversity but most puggers want a stress free ride, they want it now and they want it to be over as quickly as possible.

 

Well first, you cut the rest of that reply when it was relevant to the point, I don't feel more stress tanking than I do dpsing or healing.

 

To the point of breaking in a new tank, how long does that take exactly? After I see content once, I feel comfortable doing it in whatever role. How long does it take you to learn to tank, heal or DPS new content?

 

I dunno, the way I approach new fights, I try to watch for what's going on, watch buffs/debuffs on the boss's bar and my own, and judge what I need to do from that. If I mess up because I didn't know something or didn't do it, I don't worry, just try to do it right next time, and if someone rages at me, its whatever, I've had far more tanks rage over trivial things than DPS that rage at me when tanking (tanks can be real control freaks sometimes).

[souloferdrick]

Well first, you cut the rest of that reply when it was relevant to the point, I don't feel more stress tanking than I do dpsing or healing.

 

To the point of breaking in a new tank, how long does that take exactly? After I see content once, I feel comfortable doing it in whatever role. How long does it take you to learn to tank, heal or DPS new content?

 

I dunno, the way I approach new fights, I try to watch for what's going on, watch buffs/debuffs on the boss's bar and my own, and judge what I need to do from that. If I mess up because I didn't know something or didn't do it, I don't worry, just try to do it right next time, and if someone rages at me, its whatever, I've had far more tanks rage over trivial things than DPS that rage at me when tanking (tanks can be real control freaks sometimes).

 

I cut it off because its not relevant. That's you and while I actually applaud you for your proactive approach and wish more people were like you not everyone is built that way and that's okay. In addition to "its this role doing bad crap that makes me not want to do it" you have those who say they would do it or at least try if they environment (ie the community) allowed for it which it doesn't seem to do in most cases. Most groups are comprised of pig headed elitists whether they've earned it or not.

[hunterraaze]

I'm with Tux, I just can't do healing. For some reason, that role is far too stressful for me, and I never pay attention to my own health.

 

Tanking is my passion though. DPS gets really stale for me, and become a snooze fest. At this point only the Operative class can keep my interest in damage dealing. I like the challenge of tanking, the responsibility, and the challenge. I also LOVE the Assassin tank. It is without a doubt my favorite class in the game.

 

I have never seen the horror stories that are mentioned so frequently. Whenever I pug, I get really nice group members, and if it's something I've never done, I let them know right away, and they always have been really nice and helpful. Just yesterday, my friend and I queued up for a HM FP. He was healing, I was tanking. We got the Rakata FP, and right away I told everyone I have never done this before (I didn't mention this was my first 60 HM). That run was near perfect. Not a single wipe, (the only death was from my friend not paying attention) and the two deeps were incredibly helpful and explained everything.

 

I still do not know why I find Tanking so much fun, but cower at the thought of healing. It's strange.

[LukeTheGeek]

Because I want to do dps?

[LukeTheGeek]

Because I want to do dps?

[The_Anf]

Because I don't play this game (a game I use for my enjoyment) to make it more fun for others, I play the game how I want to play and I enjoy being a DPS (although I don't mind healing sometimes) but why should I do a role I don't enjoy?

 

If I was at work and get put on a case I don't want to do I obviously have to get on with it,...but this game isn't paying me to play it so I'll do what I want, and expect others to play how they want.

[Brewski]

To further clarify, I actually enjoy the hell out of tanking, but it becomes tiresome while in pugs because so many people don't want to take advice from others in the group, don't feel they should have to help others in the group with useful (and polite) advice, and feel it's okay to blame the tank for every wipe. (Well, 3 out of every 4 anyway, with the other one being blamed on the healer.)

 

And don't get me wrong, I am far from the best tank in the world, but I'm good enough I can tank SM and, with practice, HM flashpoints and ops. However, since I play semi-casual, I sometimes need reminders of mechanics and such, which is never a problem in a guild group, but can be an issue in a pug for the reasons above.

 

I was in a guild group once where we had a new tank doing HM Hammer Station, and we wiped like 5 times on the droid boss. In a PUG, that would have resulted in several players dropping, probably after insulting everyone else in the group. In our guild group, we just kept running it until he got it right. (Of course, the real funny part here is that the first three wipes were caused by our healer, who was forgetting the cleanse, which we all laughed off and moved on after finding out.)

 

Not that there aren't good PUGs out there too. I was in one when 3.0 launched where all four of us were doing HM Manaan for the first time, and we wiped a whole boatload of times, but stuck it out anyway and managed to finish it in good humor. But that kind of thing is rare, and it's more likely a pug will break up after one to three wipes at most.

 

tl;dr; Pugs are exhausting sometimes, and pugging as a tank or healer is doubly so in most cases, so people just get tired of it.

[AdrianDmitruk]

I refuse to tank/heal until I feel I have had an adequate opportunity to learn the content (as a DPS). Once I've DPSed something enough, I will feel comfortable healing it (my main is a PVP healer), then tanking it.

 

I have confidence in my skill healing and DPSing. Less so for tanking because I don't do it so often. As a PVPer who PVEs on the side, I don't want to catch the **** for wiping groups because I'm relatively new to that particular content and there's some mechanic I don't know about it. The rewards for running FPs just aren't worth the stress of the increased responsibility. Maybe if tank gear from comms was actually better itemized than DPS comm gear (hint: tank gear has always been worse for some reason, far back as I can remember), it would be an incentive, albeit a small one to take on the responsibility. As it is, I'm after a stress free run, which I'm more likely to get as a DPS than a tank. I can do other stuff while I'm waiting for a pop. Some days I don't get a pop at all, and that's OK as long as I manage to get three in a week. If it's Monday I'll ask a guildie to finish off my weekly LOL.

 

There have been a few cases where a tank has accepted a queue pop, only to drop immediately or shortly after zoning in, before the group has pulled anything. In those cases I offer to try tanking in tank stance, with what tank gear I have (it's not a full set) to at least get some of the FP done while we're waiting for a replacement tank. I am very upfront that I'm offering myself as a stopgap only until we can get a replacement. That keeps the expectations down to a reasonable level and most groups I've been in are fine with it. I actually managed to successfully tank a Manaan HM all the way through with only one wipe by doing that--take that, ******e who left.

 

I find that tanking in half DPS gear makes holding threat really easy, even easier than tanking in proper tank gear, though I'm well aware that wouldn't fly in serious ops content. I'm usually pretty good at rotating my cooldowns and don't really receive complaints about squishiness often. Then again the healer's probably surprised I can use my cooldowns (including intimidating roar, which a lot of tanks/dps don't think about but I learned how useful it is from my PVP activities) to help him out when the "real" tank drops.

[Merlinmagus]

I 'm tanking for a long time and had no negative experience.I don't expect the group to fall before me but I need to take control sometimes (16man hm snv oasis city infiltration with first timers,bah) and I like to take matters into My own hands.I love tanking and I also started using dps spec and I think DPSing is much easier than tanking on easier contents(sm rav/tos).