The bad news about Mercs being underpowered in survivability...

[foxmob]

Mercs will never pull those numbers in PvP even if they where given total immunity to everything. You simply cannot stay on a single target long enough to get that 5k sustained ramped up. It does not happen.

 

if I could just get serrated to spread more reasonably, I think that wouldn't be a big deal. one gcd for incendiary rail-proc power shot - proc rail - unload to finish. obviously leaving out TD, but still...if quick burst is the goal, that would be pretty good?

[Zoom_VI]

if I could just get serrated to spread more reasonably, I think that wouldn't be a big deal. one gcd for incendiary rail-proc power shot - proc rail - unload to finish. obviously leaving out TD, but still...if quick burst is the goal, that would be pretty good?

 

The issue isn't so much the dots. The issue is that with IO is that if you deviate from the rotation by a single GCD you will end up screwing over your heat.

[Nightkin]

Play a ranked game before you complain on the forums.

 

Damage potential matters because if mercs can effectively pull those numbers without ways to shut them down you will see them become overtuned.

 

Mercs are currently the glass cannon ranged. I'm still waiting for any one of you merc players with iqs of room temperature to propose a fix instead of just moaning.

 

Durrrr

How can you be the number one of anything and yet be this stupid? We have made a gazillion of suggestions and every single one of them have been ignored, utterly. For 3 years straight. Get your uninformed biased little tootsie back to your throne.

[Qwurdilu]

is that its going to drive all of us that love the BH class to play PTs...

I'm not sure the current FOTM crowd wants that...you guys might not want to make it so obvious how weak we are and help gets Mercs some improvements

Just sayin... lol

 

mercs are allready by a far margin the tankiest healers and tankiest range dps.

Only thing they are missing is an oh **** button, but once handed to them, they will be gods.

 

The only thing funnier than your complaint is this

[rcbsbb]

I had no idea that my commando was such a force in PVP. I have been sitting on a gold mine all of this time apparently. I will make sure to run him in solo ranked every chance I get this season. You guys can thank me later. I assume my team mates will recognize what a valuable asset I am to the team and guard, heal and peel for me so I can melt the enemy with my superior dps. This is assuming we don't get a defensive buff. I will just face tank 4 vs 1 and carry us to victory in that case.

[Capt_Beers]

Every time I hear a merc complain about survivability I look at their 5.7k dps parses and just laugh.

 

They have the highest damage potential in the game at 30m, and that does in fact translate over to INSANE burst in pvp. If they weren't squishy they'd be completely bonkers.

 

Now if only we could get players to just stand there and take it like the ship dummy.

[steveerkcanjerk]

I'm not saying mercs are fine. But they're not anything close to as bad off as marauders.

 

They have a lot of damage potential, 100% immunity to dots (at least commandos), and electro net. Yes, they can be cc'd and globaled, but the same can be said for every class. Even sorcs after barrier has been spent.

 

Electro net is a ridicously powerful ability. Electro netting a melee attacker when he's out of melee range is a free kill for the merc.

 

Yes, sorcs are better. Way better. Sorcs are crazy good at the moment. Mercs need buffs, for sure. But they don't need sorc survivability, not when they have way more burst potential. They shouldn't have their cake and eat it too.

 

this is true. my merc averages around 800k - 1 mil in warzones damage. I have hit another player for a 10k railshot multiple times (arsenel spec or whatever it is called in 3.0). The mobility with unload has made mercs a much biffer threat also there is a ability that lets you shoot tracer missile on the fly. i have electro netted a jugg and bursted him so quick he did not know what happened. Also if you gave merc survivability that would be unbalanced. I even do well in ranked as a merc. what i think they need is somthing like the sniper has a little shield probe that absorbs a bit of damage thats it nothing major. And if a juggernaut jumps on you yes you should die fast because that is were his class thrives, if an assassin is upclose you should be in trouble. And you can kill sorcs at range its not that hard. Snipers you just need to get the slip on them and be a bit crafty becuase they will destroy you. In ranked yeah people go for you first but guess what if you have a healer on you team they would be dumb to go for you first so use that to your advantage and burst put electro net on their melee i know this sounds like L2p but you just have to be crafty in ranked and be coordinated with your team have someone help you people you got a stun, pushback, and electronet also kolto override plus medacks. It can be done yeah its harder but it still can be and you can dish out some nice dps.

[foxmob]

The issue isn't so much the dots. The issue is that with IO is that if you deviate from the rotation by a single GCD you will end up screwing over your heat.

 

yeah. you cannot burst without going "all in" on heat management. that's true. I thought you were talking about ramp up.

Edited January 30, 2015 by foxmob

[BarronWasteland]

this is true. my merc averages around 800k - 1 mil in warzones damage. I have hit another player for a 10k railshot multiple times (arsenel spec or whatever it is called in 3.0). The mobility with unload has made mercs a much biffer threat also there is a ability that lets you shoot tracer missile on the fly. i have electro netted a jugg and bursted him so quick he did not know what happened. Also if you gave merc survivability that would be unbalanced. I even do well in ranked as a merc. what i think they need is somthing like the sniper has a little shield probe that absorbs a bit of damage thats it nothing major. And if a juggernaut jumps on you yes you should die fast because that is were his class thrives, if an assassin is upclose you should be in trouble. And you can kill sorcs at range its not that hard. Snipers you just need to get the slip on them and be a bit crafty becuase they will destroy you. In ranked yeah people go for you first but guess what if you have a healer on you team they would be dumb to go for you first so use that to your advantage and burst put electro net on their melee i know this sounds like L2p but you just have to be crafty in ranked and be coordinated with your team have someone help you people you got a stun, pushback, and electronet also kolto override plus medacks. It can be done yeah its harder but it still can be and you can dish out some nice dps.

 

So in a nutshell what you are saying for a Merc to be competitive in solo ranked you need a Jugg to guard you, a healer to focus heal you and another person to peel for you. That sounds epic. That must be why Mercs are so popular in solo ranked because they are designed to need three other classes working as one to keep you alive past the first 20 seconds of the match. Brilliant.

 

BTW I also tear it up in regs. I hit 10k rail shots in my sleep, I hit 14-15k TM all day as well. I can blend in and hide with 7 other players. In solo ranked there is no blending in. I have played matches where I get ignored the first round, well guess what after 200k dmg and 3 kills I am dead almost before I get out of the starting gate the next two rounds.

 

So the answer here is play a team too stupid to kill the merc first or play a match where all three other members are doing nothing but using everything they have to keep you alive. Sounds like they have merc balanced and fixed to a tee. No need for any dev attention I guess. Good call.

Edited January 30, 2015 by BarronWasteland

[Brunner_Venda]

I think the point people are trying to make.

 

You can't have the highest burst, longest range, and best survivability.

 

If you get an OH S*** button, prepare to lose something else.

[DariusCalera]

I think the point people are trying to make.

 

You can't have the highest burst, longest range, and best survivability.

 

If you get an OH S*** button, prepare to lose something else.

 

Snipers and sorcs can hit as hard or harder, sorcs (lightning spec) and snipers have longer range, and sorcs have better survivability.

 

So now that mercs don't have those three things, what do they get?

[Mclyde]

The game here is to post something wwithout connection with what was said since the beginning ? That's cool ! That way this thread is gonna be played in a loop, no happy end :

 

A "yu can't have all the advantage or it will create a new over-powered class like hatred sin or Pt"

B "Sorcerers have good dps and good survivability. So why should i lose something to be more independent ??"

A "Cause if yu get an advntage without losing your burst, all the others classes that are relaatively balanced now would need to get something to be able to stay competitiv too..."

B "Merc are always the first target in ranked ! We are aa dead weight for our team ! Give us more survivbility !"

A "Ok... so in exchange we should seriously decrease your burst damage. Otherwise it will be the big Kartoffelsalad"

B "Sorcere have good dps and good survivability ! So why should i lose something to be more independent ??"

A lot of intelligent and wise people coming from a superior parallel universe "hey man... just go cry on the sorc thread like us and just stop claiming that your class be playable from 5 year old !"

[Arehonn]

I've posted this in multiple threads now... but a couple of simple changes to Mando/Merc abilities would help give them increased survivability without being overpowered

 

- Remove Decoy and Degauss from Gunnery and Assault and make it passive traits rolled into the existing Diversion skill

 

- Remove Shock Absorbers from the Heroic utility section and make it a passive ability for Commando

 

- Add a new utility in the Heroic section called Charged Armor: Consumes all stacks of Charged Barrier and resets the cooldown of Diversion. Only useable at 5 stacks of Charged Barrier.

 

- Remove Charged Barrier from the Skillful section and make it a passive ability for Commando

 

- Add a new utility in the Skillful section called Tripwire: Activating Hold the Line will now knockdown 4 enemy targets in a 5m radius for 2 seconds.

[Gyronamics]

I think the point people are trying to make.

 

You can't have the highest burst, longest range, and best survivability.

 

If you get an OH S*** button, prepare to lose something else.

 

Da ****

 

Name any one of those that mercs have.

[cs_zoltan]

Sorcs don't hit 14k demolition rounds or 12k railshots.

 

If you're perfectly min-maxed for power surge you MIGHT hit 10k with chain lightning on equal expertise players. Unlikely, though.

 

DR and HiB has the highest surge bonus in the game (40%) so they are relatively weaker when they don't crit compared to other burst moves.

Also HiB is ranged so there's a good chance you will miss with it.

Also CL is AoE.

 

You like to leave out the most important details to support your (wrong) point of view, don't you

[Gyronamics]

If I recall correctly Turbulence does more damage on average than Demo Round.

 

It autocrits (when you follow the idiot proof instructions) and ignores armour and shield because it is internal damage

 

Demo Round rolls for a crit then faces armour values and any shield being used because it is kinetic damage.

 

 

Demo Round crits are less than 1 in 3 due to a common lack of crit in PVP players.

 

When it crits it can crit for over double the damage but averages are pulled down by the > 2 in 3 times it won't crit.

[Zadtro]

Merc damage is great. I have seen commando in ranked topping dps easily, which is why they are focused first, like a sniper they are too dangerous to leave free casting, leave them and they will destroy everything. You have an aoe pushback, shield, movement immunity, kolto overload, stun, good damage and off heals. I understand that utilities aren't amazing but still not too bad. I think the key is positioning, use corners to your advantage. When i am on my commando i try not to stand in front of everyone, heavy armor means less utilities.

 

I have seen some great mandos using positioning in a warzone to their advantage, dont look obvious, sorcs and sages stand out like a saw thumb and are always targetted.

[Gyronamics]

Merc damage is great. I have seen commando in ranked topping dps easily, which is why they are focused first, like a sniper they are too dangerous to leave free casting, leave them and they will destroy everything. You have an aoe pushback, shield, movement immunity, kolto overload, stun, good damage and off heals. I understand that utilities aren't amazing but still not too bad. I think the key is positioning, use corners to your advantage. When i am on my commando i try not to stand in front of everyone, heavy armor means less utilities.

 

I have seen some great mandos using positioning in a warzone to their advantage, dont look obvious, sorcs and sages stand out like a saw thumb and are always targetted.

 

Name one class which won't do good damage and top dps when not focused.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Gyronamics

[Nightkin]

Im sorry but when random dude number #4218 gives us instructions on how to play the class succesfully,

it just fricking annoys me.

Most of the merc/mando veterans have played for a good 3 years now and we have tried

every single thing there is to try.

No amount of helpful L2P comments will solve this issue, please get that through your heads.

 

The merc/mando situaton is not a L2P problem. And they dont wreck on dps any more then sorc or sniper does so get that argument out of your system aswell. If you wanna help, fine, go support these threads but anyone who claims the class is fine, we all suck and need to learn how to position ourselfs etc etc...just save yourself the time and dont post anything at all.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Nightkin

[Mclyde]

We don't say the class is fine, we said we can't afford to have more strong dps class.

if the 3 top dps class are nerfed, the others won't feel abandonned anymore.

[Zadtro]

Name one class which won't do good damage and top dps when not focused.

 

Exactly, good dps classes are focussed first. Merc and sniper for instance have great ranged damage, which is why they have to be focused first. I saw a merc who decided to try kiting and using positioning in ranked the other day and it worked, he was able to keep everyone off long enough for his team to support him. Snipers get cover and merc doesn't which means you get leaped, but do sorcs stand out waiting for leap or use corners and objects to stop that from happening? I am not saying l2p, i admit compared to other classes you don't have the best utilities but good players do have the opportunity to shine in this class.

 

I would like to see some damage reduced and survivability increased to merc/mando because in pvp i believe that survivability is a key feature and better off then pure glass cannon.

[Gyronamics]

Exactly, good dps classes are focussed first. Merc and sniper for instance have great ranged damage, which is why they have to be focused first. I saw a merc who decided to try kiting and using positioning in ranked the other day and it worked, he was able to keep everyone off long enough for his team to support him. Snipers get cover and merc doesn't which means you get leaped, but do sorcs stand out waiting for leap or use corners and objects to stop that from happening? I am not saying l2p, i admit compared to other classes you don't have the best utilities but good players do have the opportunity to shine in this class.

 

I would like to see some damage reduced and survivability increased to merc/mando because in pvp i believe that survivability is a key feature and better off then pure glass cannon.

 

Any monkey can do good damage when ignored.

 

That bit right there in red is this huge sign saying "I've never played merc".

 

If you had ever played merc in ranked you'd know that more than half the time you're being a fake tank and looking to stay alive as long as possible. Damage very rarely comes into it because that implies you're being ignored.

 

And back to the start: Any monkey can do good damage when ignored.

 

Any dps spec of any class.

[headshot_hendo]

Why should i? did any other class give up anything for theirs?

i mean this might make sense if we were head and shoulders, or to use your term 1/3 higher than others, but the facts are that we are not.

i can do higher burst on my PT or sniper than i can my merc... i dont play the current crop of fotm sorcs and sins but ive seen them do as much damage or more as well so... why should i give up anything to live as long?

Now IF IF IF giving us that results in those things, then yes, i would be willing to accept some measure of nerf.

 

i dont want to be godmode, i dont want to be fotm, i just want to not get globaled constantly, lol

 

Stop playing merc like you do in PVE. You are most likely face tanking a whole lot more than you should be. Merc doesnt need much ATM just like PT doesnt need much.

 

Sorc has light armor btw,they have half defensives with bubble and barrier is the only thing that saves them. Merc is heavy, slower, and less mobile but dumps out single target heals or damage. If they changed mercs you run the risk of removing any minute amount of viability they have now.

 

Remember BW doesnt like BH classes thats why BH got the heaviest nerfs in game to date.

 

Stop presenting such a huge target play the cover around you not the open floor known as "melee heaven."

[Zoom_VI]

If I recall correctly Turbulence does more damage on average than Demo Round.

 

It autocrits (when you follow the idiot proof instructions) and ignores armour and shield because it is internal damage

 

Demo Round rolls for a crit then faces armour values and any shield being used because it is kinetic damage.

 

 

Demo Round crits are less than 1 in 3 due to a common lack of crit in PVP players.

 

When it crits it can crit for over double the damage but averages are pulled down by the > 2 in 3 times it won't crit.

 

For the sake of reason comparing Lightning to Arsenal isn't helping. Crits aside, gunnery has significantly better burst that lightning does. However gunnery suffers from having significantly more difficulty deploying that burst.

[Nightkin]

Stop playing merc like you do in PVE. You are most likely face tanking a whole lot more than you should be.

Dude we dont facetank, atleats not the experienced merc/mando players. It still doesnt help.

This is me doing a normal huttball and i wreck faces in it (just to show that im not inexperienced) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6cqAthQA6M

 

Nothing i do in this video helps even remotely in arenas. Nada.