Slot Wars: Revenge of the Cartel Market

[Lagboot]

So, I would like to say that I find this whole "Slot Machine" fiasco rather interesting, yet insanely amusing with all the false facts and accusations that have flown around.

 

Let me give everyone a little insider knowledge about what I think really brought the grade 11 purple market down.

It was solely the result of hoarders, like myself, who buy hundreds of dollars’ worth of cartel packs. I have/had horded over 20 or more stacks of 99 Purple Jawa Junk for the sole purpose of getting grade 11 mats when they were open for sale on the Jawa vendors. (I had more but used them for level 55-60 stuff and decorations) All of these stacks came from Cartel Packs and a handful from conquest.

 

 

Where I see a huge flaw in all the blaming and crying over the Slot Machines------

 

I know there are many more like me on my server who spends the big bucks on packs. I see them regularly posting up consistent numbers of rare cartel items and the like throughout the duration of a packs life time. Usually before it is embargoed or until the prices drop and the items need to go into storage for later sales.

 

Knowing these people exist and are doing the same as me, I am sure they too have hoarded many stacks of purple Jawa Junk as well. I spent mine on myself and crafted tons of level 60 stims, adrenals, med packs, and other crafting for my plethora of characters for my own use. I also use my green Junk for conquest crafting. I chose not to "cash in" on my Junk. I had other better things to sell from packs and I knew the market was going to be scarce with the influx of grade 11 mats. Not worth my time.

 

Here is the most logical reason for what really went down.

 

The market from day one after the patch was flooded with grade 11 high end mats from the hoarders with anywhere from 20-100 stacks of purple Jawa Junk. There is no way the amount of Jawa Junk injected in the market came from the slots in the first 3 days after the Acolytes pack release.

 

For one, there is a 2 day timer on the packs.

Two, the Jawa vendors were available from day one (early Tuesday) after the patch.

Three, the market for mats started to go down early day 2 (Wednesday) after the patch.

 

This is only 36 hours or less. No slot machines are being bought/sold, just learned and used by a few. Thus the logical and most reasonable conclusion is that THE SELL PRICE OF GRADE 11 MATS WAS INCORRECTLY ESTIMATED AND PUT INTO PLACE ON THE VENDORS. 2 Jawa junk per mat was way too low.

Yes I do see that the Slots were being used from day 1, but not to their full extent until Friday and through the weekend........after the crash already was well in effect from the Cartel market Jawa junk grade 11 item purchases. The slots just masked the real problem.

 

The Cartel market Jawa Junk hoarders were the cause and effect of the market problem, not the so much the slot machine. The only thing the slot machines did was add to the fire and gave Bioware a scapegoat to cover up their real mistake which was overlooking the large amount of Jawa Junk hoarders were holding out for grade 11 mats on the vendor. It only took a few people with few hundred stacks of Junk to flood the market and lower prices. It does not take a slot machine handing out minimal stacks over a long duration. Grounding the Slot Machine was in effect Bio's way of eliminating a suspect to assess what is actually the cause of the market problems. It was a dumb way of doing it though.

 

Here is what I saw:

The market was hit all at once with the mats, not over 5-6 days. After the initial influx, and over the next 5-6 days, with the small help of the Slot Machine, the cascade effect then took hold. Since anyone could buy, with credits, grade 11 mats super cheap, even more people started crafting high end items. There went the market for all effected crafting areas.

So, what should have been done, on Biowares end, was to raise the Jawa trader price on Grade 11 from 2 junks per to 11 per or 15 junks per grade 11 item (11 JJ gets you 1 grade 11 mat so a stack of 99 JJ =9 mats). END OF THE PROBLEM with HORDERS AND SLOT MACHINES.

Then, they should have taken their time over the next 2 weeks adjusting the Slot Machine (with testing) and adjusted both the Junk dealers and the machine to balance out in a final patch. This will also help when the next Cartel Pack comes out (if anyone buys them) and dishes out tons of Jawa junk (purple).

 

Occam's Razor is a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is often correct.

Jawa vendors and their price for grade 11 mats was the problem from the start.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Lagboot

[DOHboy]

tl;dr

 

but sure, we need more threads on slot machines...because we have 2 pages that are not 100% slot machine or slot machine related.

[LordArtemis]

A good read, I generally agree with your synopsis.

[LordArtemis]

tl;dr

 

but sure, we need more threads on slot machines...because we have 2 pages that are not 100% slot machine or slot machine related.

 

Hush.

 

This forum doesn't have limited subject slots. This is just more unimportant crap to add to the already abundant amount of unimportant crap.

[DOHboy]

Hush.

 

This forum doesn't have limited subject slots. This is just more unimportant crap to add to the already abundant amount of unimportant crap.

 

which is why we needed more?

[dscount]

Why not? Lot of people are pissed about this entire fiasco. Forums should be flooded with complaints.

 

They made changes that hadn't been even mentioned. Cartel Cert's for example - nothing from Eric on them and nothing in patch notes, but they got nuked as well. Why?

 

I agree the MATS did need a nerf, but the CERTS seemed overboard and the CRAP Mount that got last minute shoved into the system was a typical "Half-***" solution a teenager would try to do in order to get the choir done and run out the door.

[Darth_Wicked]

Why not? Lot of people are pissed about this entire fiasco. Forums should be flooded with complaints.

 

Judging from General Discussion, one could say there's nothing more to this game than the slot machine. Plus, "flooded"?

 

It's the same people, over and over again, some more than others. They're akin to Credits Farmers, flooding my mailboxes with spam, but those at least send me one credit along the way.

 

The people on the forums don't. I'm appalled.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Darth_Wicked

[ghoul_drool]

Screw the market. The real issue here that the people who actually owned a slot machine or had access to one? Never had to run another crew skill, ever again. Because the slots would always be economically better as long as the top tier mats were sold by the Jawas. Always.

 

Well, except for supplements missions. But you get the idea.

 

The slots were nerfed because they trumped the use of crew skills.

[Tysu_Lanx]

Personally I don't even care about the Jawa Junk fiasco. I'm just pissed that they're uncertain about releasing future machines with different prizes, especially different reputation rewards.

[Size-Matters-Not]

I know there are many more like me on my server who spends the big bucks on packs. I see them regularly posting up consistent numbers of rare cartel items and the like throughout the duration of a packs life time.

 

Thanks for subsidizing P2W and keeping the game afloat, as there is no way subscribers like me are a sustainable revenue stream.

[OddballEasyEight]

Judging from General Discussion, one could say there's nothing more to this game than the slot machine. Plus, "flooded"?

 

It's the same people, over and over again, some more than others. They're akin to Credits Farmers, flooding my mailboxes with spam, but those at least send me one credit along the way.

 

The people on the forums don't. I'm appalled.

 

I have made no more threads than a certain other person did before the nerf (about nerfing the machine) and I never saw you making an effort to point out that it was the same people doing it then.

 

(And no, it's not "the same people". Yes some have made multiple threads, me included, but by far the most threads are from different posters)

[Bruceme]

in short, the market Jabba's are ok with people that Pay 2 Win, but don't like it when they pay with credits in a market they cannot manipulate. Edited January 26, 2015 by Bruceme

[Darth_Wicked]

I have made no more threads than a certain other person did before the nerf (about nerfing the machine) and I never saw you making an effort to point out that it was the same people doing it then.

 

Did that same person has an history of putting down other users, whenever they fail to use the search function? Or when they create a thread similar to countless ones, already on the first page?

 

(And no, it's not "the same people". Yes some have made multiple threads, me included, but by far the most threads are from different posters)

 

It's a vocal minority, clamoring desperately for attention.

 

Not much else.

[LordArtemis]

which is why we needed more?

 

We can always use more cowbell.

[Jojomagro]

This is why we can't have nice things

[LordArtemis]

It's a vocal minority, clamoring desperately for attention.

 

Not much else.

 

Shenanigans.

 

Methinks it is likely quite a bit more than that.

Edited January 26, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Mariojediwookie]

So, I would like to say that I find this whole "Slot Machine" fiasco rather interesting, yet insanely amusing with all the false facts and accusations that have flown around.

 

Let me give everyone a little insider knowledge about what I think really brought the grade 11 purple market down.

It was solely the result of hoarders, like myself, who buy hundreds of dollars’ worth of cartel packs. I have/had horded over 20 or more stacks of 99 Purple Jawa Junk for the sole purpose of getting grade 11 mats when they were open for sale on the Jawa vendors. (I had more but used them for level 55-60 stuff and decorations) All of these stacks came from Cartel Packs and a handful from conquest.

 

 

Where I see a huge flaw in all the blaming and crying over the Slot Machines------

 

I know there are many more like me on my server who spends the big bucks on packs. I see them regularly posting up consistent numbers of rare cartel items and the like throughout the duration of a packs life time. Usually before it is embargoed or until the prices drop and the items need to go into storage for later sales.

 

Knowing these people exist and are doing the same as me, I am sure they too have hoarded many stacks of purple Jawa Junk as well. I spent mine on myself and crafted tons of level 60 stims, adrenals, med packs, and other crafting for my plethora of characters for my own use. I also use my green Junk for conquest crafting. I chose not to "cash in" on my Junk. I had other better things to sell from packs and I knew the market was going to be scarce with the influx of grade 11 mats. Not worth my time.

 

Here is the most logical reason for what really went down.

 

The market from day one after the patch was flooded with grade 11 high end mats from the hoarders with anywhere from 20-100 stacks of purple Jawa Junk. There is no way the amount of Jawa Junk injected in the market came from the slots in the first 3 days after the Acolytes pack release.

 

For one, there is a 2 day timer on the packs.

Two, the Jawa vendors were available from day one (early Tuesday) after the patch.

Three, the market for mats started to go down early day 2 (Wednesday) after the patch.

 

This is only 36 hours or less. No slot machines are being bought/sold, just learned and used by a few. Thus the logical and most reasonable conclusion is that THE SELL PRICE OF GRADE 11 MATS WAS INCORRECTLY ESTIMATED AND PUT INTO PLACE ON THE VENDORS. 2 Jawa junk per mat was way too low.

Yes I do see that the Slots were being used from day 1, but not to their full extent until Friday and through the weekend........after the crash already was well in effect from the Cartel market Jawa junk grade 11 item purchases. The slots just masked the real problem.

 

The Cartel market Jawa Junk hoarders were the cause and effect of the market problem, not the so much the slot machine. The only thing the slot machines did was add to the fire and gave Bioware a scapegoat to cover up their real mistake which was overlooking the large amount of Jawa Junk hoarders were holding out for grade 11 mats on the vendor. It only took a few people with few hundred stacks of Junk to flood the market and lower prices. It does not take a slot machine handing out minimal stacks over a long duration. Grounding the Slot Machine was in effect Bio's way of eliminating a suspect to assess what is actually the cause of the market problems. It was a dumb way of doing it though.

 

Here is what I saw:

The market was hit all at once with the mats, not over 5-6 days. After the initial influx, and over the next 5-6 days, with the small help of the Slot Machine, the cascade effect then took hold. Since anyone could buy, with credits, grade 11 mats super cheap, even more people started crafting high end items. There went the market for all effected crafting areas.

So, what should have been done, on Biowares end, was to raise the Jawa trader price on Grade 11 from 2 junks per to 11 per or 15 junks per grade 11 item (11 JJ gets you 1 grade 11 mat so a stack of 99 JJ =9 mats). END OF THE PROBLEM with HORDERS AND SLOT MACHINES.

Then, they should have taken their time over the next 2 weeks adjusting the Slot Machine (with testing) and adjusted both the Junk dealers and the machine to balance out in a final patch. This will also help when the next Cartel Pack comes out (if anyone buys them) and dishes out tons of Jawa junk (purple).

 

Occam's Razor is a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is often correct.

Jawa vendors and their price for grade 11 mats was the problem from the start.

 

Two Points:

 

On average I would get maybe 9 Jawa junk for ever Crate I opened, that's every 24 packs. To say you acquired 20 or more stacks, wow. What does that come out to, 4800 individual packs you opened? You sir are the exception and not the rule. Not everyone had that amount of jawa junk so your point that some how a few people who spend their paychecks on cartel coins is somehow going to unbalance anything is laughable.

 

I acquired 2k of purple mats BYMYSELF in the week this was live. Considering I could only play when I get home from work and after my kids are in bed, my time was limited to maybe 2-3 hrs a day. That's all I did for during that time. No matter what you think, my weeks worth of clicking just equaled your 4800 packs you purchased. Does that seem balanced?

Edited January 26, 2015 by Mariojediwookie

[Darth_Wicked]

Shenanigans.

 

Methinks it is likely quite a bit more than that.

 

Thoughts and Reality are not one and the same. I do not expect you to be fully aware of that however.

 

Let's leave it at that.

[Heat-Wave]

Screw the market. The real issue here that the people who actually owned a slot machine or had access to one? Never had to run another crew skill, ever again. Because the slots would always be economically better as long as the top tier mats were sold by the Jawas. Always.

 

Well, except for supplements missions. But you get the idea.

 

The slots were nerfed because they trumped the use of crew skills.

 

And crew skills are sacred in some way? They are somehow the core game and special?

 

I move that crew skills were broken, they didn't drop nearly enough mats for the trouble and cost to run them.

 

Triple or more the rewards from them and they would be more interesting, but as it stands they are hardly worth running as it is, slot machine or no slot machine.

[LordArtemis]

Thoughts and Reality are not one and the same. I do not expect you to be fully aware of that however.

 

Let's leave it at that.

 

No, let's not.

 

How about this...a bet....you betting that all of the posts are just folks desperate for attention, and me betting that there are folks that are posting that are NOT doing so for that reason.

 

The funny thing is, reality would likely sit in my corner...not yours.

 

So it seems that the struggle to understand the difference might be on your end. Look into that.

 

Unless of course you think its likely that fairy tales and unicorns are real as well....

Edited January 26, 2015 by LordArtemis

[Sarfux]

Oh look. It's another slot machine thread

[LordArtemis]

Oh look. It's another slot machine thread

 

Like rabbits!!!!

[DOHboy]

Like rabbits!!!!

 

Wabbit Season!!!

[eartharioch]

Occam's Razor is a line of reasoning that says the simplest answer is often correct.

Jawa vendors and their price for grade 11 mats was the problem from the start.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you said -- I was going to write it up a little differently, but no sense in starting another thread. I've always seen two issues -- stored JJ causing an immediate oversupply, from which the market would have recovered and could have been largely diminished by, as you noted, starting with a higher # of JJ per Grade 11 mat and then gradually reducing it.

 

The main problem with the slot machines is that (as released) it was a cheaper, faster, and more reliable replacement for Mission skills (purples). That's what they wanted to buy, and BW told them they could have it. I'm pretty sure everybody expected a nerf to balance it with Mission skills, but (based on BW's original response), they didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. Even though I think we are better off with the way it is than the way it was, I am quite disappointed that the value of continued use (one you hit Legend rep) is virtually nil. And I have to agree that the degree of the nerf is hard to reconcile with BW's initial statement that it was working as intended.

[MSchuyler]

A very insightful post, OP. It brings up something most people never even recognized. I, too, saw the stacks of 99 midlithe crystals available within hours after the patch. The slot machines could not possibly have done that. I even asked in Crew Sills how that had been accomplished and got several, "We're, like, very smart" replies. Like every other "new thing" that comes down there were people poised on the edge of their seat ready to take advantage of it. We saw the same exact thing with the advent of war supplies. In fact, one of my toons made several million credits by selling crystal capacitors and holycrons at inflated prices, which have subsequently settled down to a dull roar.

 

Of course the early bird gets the worm, and the late birds all resent it. Too bad Bioware responded to the whiners. THAT'S what has caused this.