Neglience Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Too easy Nodes plural per blue and purple mat? nah Node. 1 Node per mat that will respawn 30 seconds after being harvested... in a different, RNG determined, location. Go out and explore, find the rare material. Would be greate to move out into the world. But those which are now to lazy to run crew missions will still be to lazy to farm nodes and they will still call everyone who does so a "mat barone" or "mat gouger" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Well, I think it is past time to improve crew missions. This machine only made that more apparent IMO. Grade 11 mission were significantly lowered in the time they need. But i think you never run one .. Edited January 25, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Assumption based on observation and investigation. Assumption based on very limited observation and investigation. I wouldn't call it representative. I am not saying that your conclusion is wrong. I can't prove or disprove it, but I do not believe you have enough data to make a judgment about the whole player base. That's all I'm saying. Point is that they should look at their metrics again. It will show that the use of the machine is abysmally low and that should tell them that the machine is not useful as it is right now. Sure, you said they need to look at their metrics again, but that would imply you think they don't or haven't. I find that a strange assumption because we know from various comments and general business practice that metrics are commonplace and are checked regularly. That's why I said I am sure they are watching their metrics. And then you assume again that you know what the result will be. That's again basing an assumption on an assumption again. And this is why I think you want it to be true so much that you actually believe your assumptions to be truths. Very human, but very unreliable. Again, your conclusion may be right, but the method of coming to the conclusion is no better than guessing. I don't mind that you have this opinion but I do not find it very reliable. As I said I can't prove nor disprove it because I don't have the metrics. I've thought before on various occasions that people just wouldn't do something only to find out they did. I'm willing to believe you spoke to various people but I also know that it's not a big enough sample size to prove anything. It does mean that my assumption that people with mounts indicated people playing was at least partially debunked. That's ok. But I still have no way of knowing that nobody or almost nobody uses these slot machines anymore. And as I see it, neither do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariojediwookie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 This I can understand. People screaming it killed the economy were just being greedy imo. Other than a social thing this was a monumental mistake. It gave people who wanted everything for nothing just that and others a perfect farm for mats, etc. No matter what they did past that point they were utterly screwed because they will NEVER, ever please the people playing this game. They could fix every single issue tomorrow and still people will be screaming how the game is unplayable. My opinion yes but gained from reading tons of threads on these forums over the last week in a attempt for comparison. TBH, there were more people saying it killed crew missions than the economy. It would be hard to justify a nerf of this magnitude by saying it was the economy only. If all it did was lower the cost of good they might have actually not nerfed it that bad (that appeared to be one of their objectives after all since they thought mats were too rare). However making it so the slot machine was the only viable option (over crew skills) to farm mats is never going to stay in game. If the devs only released the slot with rep items and a rare drop of cartel certificate, thing would have still be very popular. I mean cartel certificates are a rare drop in packs, I had only amassed 30 before the slot machine. It would take over a million credits in packs on the GTN to get a cartel certificate. So even with its nerfed version the drop rate is not unreasonable. It just seems that way because the drop rate was set to God Mode initially. It was their mistake to not properly test this thing because a monkey could see how bad this was for crew skills. So the complaints should be aimed at their quality control process not at bringing back something that was unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Grade 11 mission were significantly lowered in the time they need. But i think you never run one .. They ALL need to be significantly lowered, have increased returns and increased crit rates...and that includes increasing returns from scavenging nodes. They ALSO need to remove ALL other sources of mats from the game.....packs, conquest, the whole nine yards, or at least replace them with bound universal mats. It is absolutely moronic to get mats from a pack. Those mats should be in the mechanics designed to PROVIDE THEM. Just my opinion....I could certainly be off base here, but I feel pretty strongly about this. This problem started with putting mats in packs...not with the machine. Once you start providing mats in ways that are completely foolish you are bound, at some point, to screw up the game. I mean, of COURSE they had to nerf the mat drop rate on a slot machine into oblivion....it is a SLOT MACHINE. It pumps out a result every few seconds....even gathering takes more time than that. It is astounding to me that noone on the dev team could have foreseen how idiotic it was to put mat delivery into other aspects of the game. Edited January 25, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariojediwookie Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It is astounding to me that noone on the dev team could have foreseen how idiotic it was to put mat delivery into other aspects of the game. Honestly I want to know how this got past them. Everyone understood how out of balance it was the first day it was released. It was like the dev team never tested the thing in any kind of environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Honestly I want to know how this got past them. Everyone understood how out of balance it was the first day it was released. It was like the dev team never tested the thing in any kind of environment. One would think a mat printing machine didnt require a test. Just the idea of it alone should have been enough to raise concerns. But of course they found no issue with putting mats in packs and for conquest either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 There are quit a few peoples playing the machines. Not the extent like there was no other thing to do in swtor, but they are used. Their intentions made it clear, it should have been a fun item which a players uses from time to time. And you know that because you watch all these people playing the slot machine, right? Of course you are. There is no way you just make up something just to troll your favourite topic again. A (very, very small) survey amongst 18 players in my guild revealed that only 2 have played the slot machine after the nerf. One because he still had coins left over. The other one because he wanted to see it with his own eyes. We had put credits together to buy a slot machine for the guildship one day before the nerf. The machine hasn't been played once now. I know that 18 is nothing compared to the total player numbers, but my survey at least shows real numbers and not some made up stuff like above. Look at it this way: If nobody is using it, then that is a complete waste of time and effort that went into its development. Well, it's not the first thing in this game which ended up being wasted (more or less). It's probably something totally normal for BW. They got their payment for programming it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malderak Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) The point of a decoration is to act as decoration for your stronghold. The fact it makes pretty lights and sounds and drops some useless junk when you right click it is just an added bonus. It should not have any other impact on gameplay or economy whatsoever. Edited January 25, 2015 by Malderak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Thank you. Now if only everyone else could understand that.... No problem mate, the sooner the community moves on the happier these forums will be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokimogor Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Slotgate 2015, but what they did was bait and switch. Did I spend monies to get slot machines No, but I understand why they are pissed. Go look up the definition of switch and bait, this does not meet the legal grounds for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anesvik Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The point of a decoration is to act as decoration for your stronghold. The fact it makes pretty lights and sounds and drops some useless junk when you right click it is just an added bonus. It should not have any other impact on gameplay or economy whatsoever. ^THIS. This is what I mean. I have a casino in my stronghold and have 2 of them. Loved when sots were OP and now they suck. But they still fit in great with my other casino stuff so I don't feel too bad about getting them off gtn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grayblux Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 same people bumping all the slot machine threads and making new ones, legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderVamp Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 There are quit a few peoples playing the machines. Not the extent like there was no other thing to do in swtor, but they are used. Their intentions made it clear, it should have been a fun item which a players uses from time to time. I know I don't ever touch mine now. Ever. I'm maxed on rep and with the nerf, a loss of nearly 50% of what I put in for a 1 in what, 10? 100? thousand chance at a very mediocre walk isn't remotely worth it. Definitely not what I'd call "a little behind." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) same people bumping all the slot machine threads and making new ones, legit. Same people ( Vocal minority ) = Community ( For them at any rate ) What I find oddly delicious is seeing those who stamped on other people, time and time again, for months on end, are getting their due. Some are effectively -- or presumably -- leaving the game over this. Talk about skewed priorities. Edited January 25, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 It was quite fun, to see a stronghold alive. It was wasn't it. Seems rather devoid of life / fun now after the heavy nerf sledgehammer, aside from the Twi'lek dancers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Honestly I don't understand how the slot machine could ever be considered fun no matter what rewards it gives. It could drop 198 gear tokens and a BoE copy of whatever the most expensive GTN item sold in the past 24 hours was, and you'd still be standing there right-clicking your mouse. Fun............. Some people like mini games in MMO's that actually pay some thing rather then just rep. Edited January 25, 2015 by Neoforcer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draqsko Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Would be greate to move out into the world. But those which are now to lazy to run crew missions will still be to lazy to farm nodes and they will still call everyone who does so a "mat barone" or "mat gouger" . There would be no mat barons left if they did that. Most of those people would not go walking around a planet looking for nodes, and the ones that do well they earned their mats with work. Not to mention that there would be actual rarity since production would limited to how long you could actually farm mats instead of just sending companions out on all your 22 alts, 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muljo_Stpho Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Jawa scrap being a thing and them adding new ways to obtain it isn't really the problem. The problem is that the trade-in rates on the scrap make no sense. With only a couple exceptions, any low grade material costs the same as any medium grade material which also costs the same as any high grade material. Everything (almost) costs exactly one scrap per unit. You would think that they would want the prices scaled up for the higher grades to enforce some sense of "rarity". Split the grades up into tiers (1-3 for 1 per unit, 4-6 for 2 per unit, 7-9 for 3 per unit, 10-12 for 4 per unit) or perhaps even price by grade alone (1 for 1 per unit, 2 for 2 per unit, 3 for 3 per unit, etc.) They could even create price tiers by quality (start all greens at 1 per unit for grades 1-3, start all blues at 2 per unit for grades 1-3, start all purples at 3 per unit for grades 1-3). And if they still thought that Diplomacy mats and Slicing mats in particular needed extra rarity compared to other mats at the same level they could have then added another 1-2 to those prices on top of those rates. That, on top of scrap from all sources favoring green drops over blue drops and blue drops over purple drops, would restrict the purchasing power when selecting high level materials from the Jawa vendors. If prices had been like that when the slot machine had been released, there still would have been concerns because the drop rates for the Jawa scrap were a bit high (no arguments there) but the effect on materials in circulation would have been slower. Instead of having every 1-3 purple scrap translate into another unit of top-level material generated, it could have required something more like 6-8 per unit to generate those same materials. (Or 13-15 per unit if they priced by grade instead of grouping them into tiers.) Devalue the scrap by some amount and it won't be such a big deal to acquire a unit of it. Make one unit of scrap out to be "one unit of currency" instead of "one unit of a wild card material". Edited January 25, 2015 by Muljo_Stpho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankiel Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 (edited) Same people ( Vocal minority ) = Community ( For them at any rate ) What I find oddly delicious is seeing those who stamped on other people, time and time again, for months on end, are getting their due. Some are effectively -- or presumably -- leaving the game over this. Talk about skewed priorities. Everyone says "OMG RAGE QUIT!!!!111one" from time to time... But most stay anyway. Edited January 25, 2015 by jankiel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Honestly I don't understand how the slot machine could ever be considered fun no matter what rewards it gives. It could drop 198 gear tokens and a BoE copy of whatever the most expensive GTN item sold in the past 24 hours was, and you'd still be standing there right-clicking your mouse. Fun............. Yet Las Vegas and entire countries base their entire economies around that exact thing, and people come from all over the world to do that exact thing. How BioWare can take something so old and well documented and mess it up so thoroughly is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) You guys said at the cantina event that you looked at the data and saw that people were playing the machine too much and neglecting crew skills (not exactly but that's the jist of it). Take another look now. Are people playing the machine? Is it working as intended? (ie. is it a "fun" thing that people are having fun playing?) Because if the data shows you that people are hardly touching the machine, that might be a clue as to whether or not you overnerfed it. Look at it this way: If nobody is using it, then that is a complete waste of time and effort that went into its development. This makes me think of those Old Spice commercials. Look at your data... look away... now look again. Honestly I don't understand how the slot machine could ever be considered fun no matter what rewards it gives. It could drop 198 gear tokens and a BoE copy of whatever the most expensive GTN item sold in the past 24 hours was, and you'd still be standing there right-clicking your mouse. Fun............. I wasn't really interested in it as more than a novelty item for my smuggler's casino... was never going to play CM roulette or pay millions of credits on GTN for one however, and wouldn't have spent more than a few minutes a day clicking on it. Honestly, I liked the idea of other people clicking on their slot machines and putting enough purple mats on GTN to drive the prices down, so crafting useful stuff for my characters and companions would have been less of a tedious chore, waiting for 1 in 20 missions to return a purple mat or two for a week or two so I could craft an item mod... Edited January 26, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I just shudder at the likely scenario that they are going to make this even WORSE somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anesvik Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I just shudder at the likely scenario that they are going to make this even WORSE somehow. Oh, they will. Trust me. I didn't get much time to exploit it. And hey, lets just call it that shall we? It was giving more than it should despite the "working as intended". And those that chose to farm the hell out of it( much like Ravagers) are gonna win big in the long run. And this has become a pattern. I like to wait on new items or content so the hype dies down and things are easier/ cheapier and I can swoop in on prices when they fall (or do a run so people have had time to not derp out) So waiting has become a good way for me to save time and credits.. But this whole situation is forcing me to be one of those idiots that swoops up on something when it comes out.. Remember everyone. If it is "working as intended:" and they are "looking into it"...exploit the hell out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrr_hypernova Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Yet Las Vegas and entire countries base their entire economies around that exact thing, and people come from all over the world to do that exact thing. How BioWare can take something so old and well documented and mess it up so thoroughly is beyond me. That's second rate American knockoff bioware. Dollars to donuts the Edmonton and Montreal studios wouldn't have screwed up this bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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