LanceCorporalDan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So... he confirmed people were not using an exploit so people could breathe easy and he said they were looking into making changes to it, which they have done now. What exactly is the issue here? Just more sword rattling really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DurdensWrath Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The usual complaints and seeking of something to raise a ruckus about. Because what he SAID, and what was DONE are two different things. Changing the drop rate of Jawa Junk != Raising the loss rate, lowering the rate of certificates, lowering the rates of other jawa items. That is either being so far out of the loop that Eric is worthless, or blatant lies. Pick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So... he confirmed people were not using an exploit so people could breathe easy and he said they were looking into making changes to it, which they have done now. What exactly is the issue here? Well, to be precis he said they'd look into the drop rates of Jawa Junk. And then the patch notes said they had changed the drop rates of Jawa Junk and added a walker mount. But the drop rates for droid parts and scavanged scrap were also (drastically) reduced without mention in the patchnotes or erics earlier statement. And so was the drop rate for cartel certificates. And the loss rate was increased. So the machine went from having a 32% chance of winning something good to 0.5% chance of winning something good. And from a 25% chance of losing to a 45% chance of losing. That's a rather drastic change and it effectively renders the machine useless. Of course, your answer to this will be something flippant like "so what, they can change whatever they want, quit whining" since this isn't an issue for you. But if this really isn't an issue for you, then maby you should stay out of the discussion completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshlaBoga Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) People whined. They *****ed. They complained. They squealed like little pigs. Hahahaha! The fat little Gamorrean infants squealed! and squealed! Their chubby faces rolling over the keyboard. I find that image both humorous and slightly cute. Edited January 22, 2015 by AshlaBoga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinapus Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Because what he SAID, and what was DONE are two different things. Changing the drop rate of Jawa Junk != Raising the loss rate, lowering the rate of certificates, lowering the rates of other jawa items. That is either being so far out of the loop that Eric is worthless, or blatant lies. Pick one. I pick: "False Dilemma" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I have an idea, they know exactly what people won over the week. Probably not. Based on recent events, even if the software BioWare uses provides tools that let someone perform a query of the database that would produce the information you mention, it seems unlikely there is anyone at BioWare smart enough to know how to use that tool. You can't just ask your computer in English, you have to write some form of database query. And that's not something a PR flack like Eric Musco is likely to be able to do, and anyone on the SWTOR team with the training to do that is probably too busy substituting new bugs for old ones in the next patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Musco did not have the developers make this change. He can likely only make suggestions, he is not a dev himself. He is likely just the messenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Musco did not have the developers make this change. He can likely only make suggestions, he is not a dev himself. He is likely just the messenger. And frankly he looked pretty unenthusiastic, almost annoyed, during the last live stream. It's not fun to be him right now. Morale among BioWare's SWTOR team is probably pretty low. It's kind of a death spiral: produce poorly crafted software and make bad decisions, players get mad, you lose enthusiasm for your work, your work suffers as a result, and you produce even more poorly crafted software and make even worse decisions. Symptoms of a poorly managed team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 What is the deal? 5 days ago you wrote this. That was Friday evening so not quite 5 days. Then the weekend. Then Monday you had your developers change this. What the heck changed in your mind over the weekend that caused you to "FIX" the slot machines? You all did this in one day after telling us that everything was fine. Telling the community something like you did means we take it as truth. It wasn't a rumor someone posted. It wasn't something from a different website being told by someone who read it. It was from you. This is an example of why your company has such poor customer relations and support. Can you not read? It clearly states they have heard the complaints and are looking into them. Posters like you are why the Swtor forums are considered one of the biggest bunch of QQers and most toxic forums I'm mmos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacynski Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 And frankly he looked pretty unenthusiastic, almost annoyed, during the last live stream. It's not fun to be him right now. Morale among BioWare's SWTOR team is probably pretty low. It's kind of a death spiral: produce poorly crafted software and make bad decisions, players get mad, you lose enthusiasm for your work, your work suffers as a result, and you produce even more poorly crafted software and make even worse decisions. Symptoms of a poorly managed team. ^this probably. And that is exactly that worries me about the slot machine incident. The whole thing was poorly executed and poorly communicated. First it was a really bad idea to have a slot machine spit out grade 11 purple mats. But this is no way as bad as let this go on for a week, make a statement that most people understood as: "the slot machine is fine, just Java Junk maybe needs some readjustment" and then nerf it into the ground as a whole. This has "BAD MANAGEMENT" written over it in big, capital letters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Can you not read? It clearly states they have heard the complaints and are looking into them. Posters like you are why the Swtor forums are considered one of the biggest bunch of QQers and most toxic forums I'm mmos. I support that you are MMOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Of course, your answer to this will be something flippant like "so what, they can change whatever they want, quit whining" since this isn't an issue for you. But if this really isn't an issue for you, then maby you should stay out of the discussion completely. You know, you're the one being flippant here, reading all sorts of things into my post that I didn't write and then reacting to what you think I might say instead of what I actually say. That's just bull really. Tell me, where did you think it was a good idea that you needed to be flippant yourself and then act as if that's what I would do purely based on your own assumptions? And this is a forum of opinion so don't tell me that I can't have my opinion here. I didn't like these slot machines because I do worry about what it would've done to the game if it had continued the way it did. So am glad it got nerfed this way. It's not that I don't care about the issue. I just think people are complaining about something that's not really a point. So your assumption that I don't care about this is wrong. I would suggest doing less interpretation and assumption and just reply with either questions for clarification or responses to what I actually write and not make judgements about what you think I might do, but it's just a suggestion. Now, back to the topic. This is a gambling mechanism like the event we had some time ago and honestly it was too good to be true. That Eric didn't mention everything in detail is not something I expected either. I find it odd that you do expect that but I do get it disappointed people when the nerf came. We so easily get used to free stuff and this is part of the problem as it is. The win chance was simply too good. If you can't objectively step back and see that, well, what can I say really? The reality was that it was cheaper to use the slot machine than to do crafting missions and that could never have been a long term option. In the end, flooding the game with cheap mats will have an effect on crafting and the economy. From my point of view the only real complaint here is NOT why they nerfed it the way they did but why they brought it out the way they did in the first place. I can't see how they would've thought this a good idea when they brought a gambling mechanism into the game that had such great winning chances. It could only lead to a nerf and disappointing people. I'll tell you one thing though. When they nerfed endgame gearing and especially with the comms on top of that, it was a reset moment. I was initially upset about it but then it hit me. I knew gearing up was really easy before 3.0 and it's just not as easy now. We just got used so quickly to easy that people pretty much expect things to be almost handed to them at minimal effort. I just laughed at myself for being so silly for being upset initially about this and I find it's more enjoyable now that things are not as easy. I am certainly not propagating turning SWTOR in some Asian grind fest, it still has to be fun, but I really would like to invite people to think a little bit more seriously about this. Things like this are just too easy. It all becomes a bit meaningless that way and a sure win gambling mechanism that would destroy the crafting market for a big part just isn't a good thing in my view. So I'll say it again. I am happy with this nerf. Just not so happy with how they brought the slot machines into the game to begin with causing them to need to make such a big change to the slot machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacynski Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So I'll say it again. I am happy with this nerf. Just not so happy with how they brought the slot machines into the game to begin with causing them to need to make such a big change to the slot machines. One can be happy with the nerf, but I'm still very unhappy with the way it has been handled. If the slot machine warranted a nerf by a factor of 100, they should have clearly communicated so. Something like: "We are sorry, but the slot machine has been released with broken win chances. We will need some time to evaluate what caused the mistake and will deactivate the machine in a hotfix for the time being. After win chances for all items are where we intend them to be, the machines will be reactivated" And then, after careful evaluation on their side, and fixing accordingly they should have said: "We made adjustments to the win chances of all items of the slot machine to fit our intention of this item, which should be a fun interactable decoration but not a way to bypass traditional methods of obtaining crafting materials. We are sorry for the inconvenience of you not being able to use your machines for some days and added a little suprise for people with exceptional luck. Have fun with the now again operating machines" With such a way of communicating I guess most reasonable people would have been completely fine. Nobody would have gone out of their way to obtain a slot machine and nobody would be frustrated right now. I just don't understand how a multi-million dollar business as Bioware is, can be so friggin poor at communicating with their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Half of you kids will have forgotten about this in two days. Resigns? You're talking about a man's job because you were too insanely stupid to realise that a single item was breaking the game's economy. It was always going to be changed - there was no maybe, ifs or buts, there were just those smart enough to realise and those stupid enough to think they could get everything for nothing. Maybe the man should do his next job better. Inept employees get fired all the time. That's how real life works. You think I give two dumps if the moron behind the counter at McDonald's gets canned because he can't operate the register correctly? Fire Eric Musco, and all shall be forgiven. Make it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The win chance was simply too good. There is a huge disconnect between: This is not performing to our expectations, let's adjust it! And Let's nuke it from orbit with a thermonuclear weapon after said it was working as intended. The previous yellow post did exactly state that it is working as intended, and it is not an exploit. The post was very clear that whatever was being generated from the machine was okay. Now if a week later they were unhappy (which is within their rights) with the results and wish to nerf it then so be it, but to go from 12.5% to 0.1% for purple jawa junk (which is two orders of magnitude of difference) means something is very wrong with whatever they do internally. I do not understand how an item of such impact can go through whatever verification process without realizing the consequences of it. No one in the business of MMOs make such a blunder! I get that bugs go through sometimes and that's normal but this is not a bug as it was verified. IMO one of three things happened: 1. CM items are not checked by the rest of team. 2. Item was working as they intended, and they did foresee the economic consequences but they didn't expect some parts of the community to react this way. 3. Item was working as they intended, but they didn't expect it to be so popular. Something to think about, this item is old! This item could be seen in the decoration window during the PTS of patch 2.9, which means they have been working on it for a long time. Edited January 22, 2015 by znihilist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) The previous yellow post did exactly state that it is working as intended, and it is not an exploit. The post was very clear that whatever was being generated from the machine was okay. Now if a week later they were unhappy (which is within their rights) with the results and wish to nerf it then so be it, but to go from 12.5% to 0.1% for purple jawa junk (which is two orders of magnitude of difference) means something is very wrong with whatever they do internally. Please go back and read the yellow post again. There is important information for you. For your choices, i would go with 1. They did not know what they where doing. Edited January 22, 2015 by Neglience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorvan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Something to think about, this item is old! This item could be seen in the decoration window during the PTS of patch 2.9, which means they have been working on it for a long time. If this is what they accomplished after that long of a planning time, I'd hate to see the carnage if one of these devs ever had a spontaneous thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacynski Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Maybe the man should do his next job better. Inept employees get fired all the time. That's how real life works. You think I give two dumps if the moron behind the counter at McDonald's gets canned because he can't operate the register correctly? Fire Eric Musco, and all shall be forgiven. Make it so. You are quick to jump to the conclusion Eric is to blame for this. The only way I would support this notion is when the statement he made in his thread was way out of line with what was internally discussed (for whatever reason). but I strongly suspect that this is not the case. For me it looks like the whole slot machine thingy was managed poorly and the guy (or lady) that is in charge for project management of CM item development is to blame. How can they release a CM item, that is clearly superior to companion missions for material gathering? It was pretty obvious this is game breaking in a way. Then, why didn't they come clear about it? I doubt that it was Eric's decision to make such a vague statement when it was already decided to nerf that thing into the ground. If this was indeed the case, then yes he should be held responsible for it. I just really doubt that's what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
znihilist Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Please go back and read the yellow post again. There is important information for you. For your choices, i would go with 1. They did not know what they where doing. Do you mean that they might adjust it ? That is covered by what I wrote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neglience Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I actually think i might get a machine now, when the prices drop a bit more. I was never interested in the CM reputation because i think it is rip-off. but now i can get every reputation with only a few credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacynski Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 There is a huge disconnect between: This is not performing to our expectations, let's adjust it! And Let's nuke it from orbit with a thermonuclear weapon after said it was working as intended. The previous yellow post did exactly state that it is working as intended, and it is not an exploit. The post was very clear that whatever was being generated from the machine was okay. Now if a week later they were unhappy (which is within their rights) with the results and wish to nerf it then so be it, but to go from 12.5% to 0.1% for purple jawa junk (which is two orders of magnitude of difference) means something is very wrong with whatever they do internally. I do not understand how an item of such impact can go through whatever verification process without realizing the consequences of it. No one in the business of MMOs make such a blunder! I get that bugs go through sometimes and that's normal but this is not a bug as it was verified. IMO one of three things happened: 1. CM items are not checked by the rest of team. 2. Item was working as they intended, and they did foresee the economic consequences but they didn't expect some parts of the community to react this way. 3. Item was working as they intended, but they didn't expect it to be so popular. Something to think about, this item is old! This item could be seen in the decoration window during the PTS of patch 2.9, which means they have been working on it for a long time. QFT. I pick option 1. And I added my emphasis to the part I think is most important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I support that you are MMOs. And I support you quitting over slots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 And frankly he looked pretty unenthusiastic, almost annoyed, during the last live stream. It's not fun to be him right now. Morale among BioWare's SWTOR team is probably pretty low. It's kind of a death spiral: produce poorly crafted software and make bad decisions, players get mad, you lose enthusiasm for your work, your work suffers as a result, and you produce even more poorly crafted software and make even worse decisions. Symptoms of a poorly managed team. Oh geez here we go doom and gloom. You know this must be the longest death spiral in the history of MMOs. Considering according to some they have been on a death spiral since launch. You know what a symptom of a toxic community is? Well read your post and you may find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 And I support you quitting over slots... Shenanigans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdmaha Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Shenanigans. AKA I don't want to talk about facts TDMAHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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