Zoom_VI Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 Depending on your definition. See, that's the thing here, people are using different definitions of "working as intended", and that's actually where a lot of fights come from. For some people "working as intended" -INCLUDES- the win chances. When BioWare say "it's working as intended", they took (take?) that to mean 'nothing will change, INCLUDING the win chances, because those win chances are also "working as intended"'. They're part of the "intended" piece. For others, "working as intended" simply means "it works, there's no bugs, you put tokens in and get stuff out." and it does not include the actual chances of said stuff, because that's a parameter of the system. The system itself works and has not been changed, simply the parameters of it. I'm not about to say which definition is correct, but if you're the sort of person who uses the former definition, then by that definition, BioWare backpedalled. They changed something they said they wouldn't (i.e. drop rates of rep certs) If you're the sort of person who uses the second definition, then BioWare didn't lie, and since the slot machine works (i.e. you put stuff in and then you get stuff out, sometimes), it was "working as intended" before the change, and it's still "working as intended" after the change. Just depends on how you define it. I can say as someone who does programming for a living that both of those definitions are actually wrong. "Working as Intended" means that it's working in the way it was coded to work. Basically "working as intended" means it's not bugged. What people are getting hung on is the fact that saying "it's not a bug" is NOT the same as saying "it's not up for change." Example: Melee being horribly disadvantaged in the current tier of endgame operations can be said to be "working as intended" because melee classes and the ops mechanics are (barring coritanni) working in the way they where coded to work. However this doesn't mean that Melee classes or the operation mechanics are not up for change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kianabamin Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well since there is a new post on the first page asking for new Slot machines, I would still like to have the old one re-fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMBamBam Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Me too... I'm running low on jawa junk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Is this thread still running? Sheesh, clearly Bioware doesn't care to address it again, they have moved on... Allow their response or lack thereof inform your choices on how many CC to buy, or to not buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 They will never admit they were wrong on this. We might as well give up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I can say as someone who does programming for a living that both of those definitions are actually wrong. "Working as Intended" means that it's working in the way it was coded to work. Basically "working as intended" means it's not bugged. I, too, work as a programmer. I've spent the last 26 years doing that sort of work. Remind me not to hire you as one. "Working as indended" means that it is working as it was DESIGNED to work. Programs **ALWAYS** work as they were coded to work, because that's the ONLY way they can work. (Exception: if someone truly believes that - means add, or just typoed a - instead of a +, then one might be able to argue that the coder's intent was not what the code says, but I'd normally define "as coded" to mean "as it says in the source code".) And "Working as intended" doesn't mean it isn't bugged, just that the requirement that appears to be not working wasn't taken into account during the design process, possibly (but only possibly) because it shouldn't have been, but possibly because someone overlooked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 They will never admit they were wrong on this. We might as well give up on it. The House always wins..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I can say as someone who does programming for a living that both of those definitions are actually wrong. "Working as Intended" means that it's working in the way it was coded to work. Basically "working as intended" means it's not bugged. What people are getting hung on is the fact that saying "it's not a bug" is NOT the same as saying "it's not up for change." Example: Melee being horribly disadvantaged in the current tier of endgame operations can be said to be "working as intended" because melee classes and the ops mechanics are (barring coritanni) working in the way they where coded to work. However this doesn't mean that Melee classes or the operation mechanics are not up for change. I've tried to explain this multiple times. People seem to forget logic and reason in favour of their emotions and this specific topic kicked some people into emotional overdrive. Rightfullt so and for multiple reasons, not just that the toy was fun then broken and made the opposite of fun, but the methods that the Game Team went about doing so and their lack of feedback and engagement with their community. But I am with you 100% and tried to explain the same prior. The Slot Machine was working. There was not some weird thing you could do by placing it in a specific hook and get it to spew more rewards than intented. Instead, the slot machines number values for odds in its charts were inappropriately set so the machine returned too generous a payout by design. It was working as intended, but the intentions were off and needed to be re-evaluated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 PS - I posted this back in January of this year (seems so long ago) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=793234 Suggestion thread post on the Slot Machine. Not everyone agrees with me and that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djiini Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Emperor Vitiate is really this thread. I mean, it's immortal, it all makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radoric Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Emperor Vitiate is really this thread. I mean, it's immortal, it all makes sense! It's immortal, and it's trying to suck the life out of the forums! OMG, it IS Vitiate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kianabamin Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Two hundred and forty two pages, it's not dead yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocron Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Two hundred and forty two pages, it's not dead yet. THIS IS SPART........Ahhhh SLOT MACHINA!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Emperor Vitiate is really this thread. I mean, it's immortal, it all makes sense! It will consume us all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flintfire Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 This thread still going on? Well, while im here I want to complain. Whenever I played thee slot machine I used to grab a lot of jawa junks that would fall out of the prize hole. Now, I feel empty without all the jawa junks raining from the slot machine. Please, I just want to get more jawa junks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The House always wins..... But in this case, the house holds you up at gunpoint, takes all your money and then smacks you around a bit for the privelege. Real slot machines have a return rate that is FAR, FAR, FAR higher than this one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 But in this case, the house holds you up at gunpoint, takes all your money and then smacks you around a bit for the privelege. Real slot machines have a return rate that is FAR, FAR, FAR higher than this one has. Like in the mid 90% range. Eric said they created the slot because of player requests to have fun things like the Kingpin Bounty event. The slot machine used to be TOO fun. Now it is zero fun. Even the people using it for rep tokens are not having fun, they are having to sit and watch something blink and make noise while feeding it coins until they get enough to stop using it. To most everyone else there is absolutely zero value applied to the rep tokens, so even 'winning' the slot machines is perceived as losing. Slots in the present form are absolutely horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 "Working as indended" means that it is working as it was DESIGNED to work. Programs **ALWAYS** work as they were coded to work, because that's the ONLY way they can work. (Exception: if someone truly believes that - means add, or just typoed a - instead of a +, then one might be able to argue that the coder's intent was not what the code says, but I'd normally define "as coded" to mean "as it says in the source code".) Perhaps my phrasing was poor. I meant "as it was intended," although considering 99% of the people on this forum can't tell the difference between "intended" and "obviously a unintended bug" the wording doesn't really matter. It's also worth noting that the slot machine fiasco came right on the heels of the Ravagers exploit, so most of the contemporary forum was full of people jumping on every little thing as a "exploit" and many on the boards where claiming the slot machine was a exploit and people would be punished for using it. Musco's post was certainly aimed at alleviating those fears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I can say as someone who does programming for a living that both of those definitions are actually wrong. "Working as Intended" means that it's working in the way it was coded to work. Basically "working as intended" means it's not bugged. What people are getting hung on is the fact that saying "it's not a bug" is NOT the same as saying "it's not up for change." Example: Melee being horribly disadvantaged in the current tier of endgame operations can be said to be "working as intended" because melee classes and the ops mechanics are (barring coritanni) working in the way they where coded to work. However this doesn't mean that Melee classes or the operation mechanics are not up for change. I never claimed either of those two definitions were correct. I just said that there are people out there who are using them, and if you're using one of those two definitions, the likelihood is high that you'd come to the stated conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnisaBadgett Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 It will consume us all!!! Except the last person to post will be the Sith Warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooty Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The House always wins... ^^ Cliché. The house can certainly lose in the long run if they operate their business poorly and lose customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocHoneydew Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Except the last person to post will be the Sith Warrior. No. A mod locking the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kianabamin Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 No. A mod locking the thread. Yeah, like they even look at this thread anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnkiduNineEight Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Yeah, like they even look at this thread anymore. Dey iz a'scairt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 "Working as intended" is nothing more than CYA. It's meaningless, and just thrown out by devs and pubs to cover their backsides when something goes wrong or fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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