The Contraband Slot Machine

[Draqsko]

I beg to differ.

 

You see, I've been hearing complaints about crafting percentages for 3 years. "RE isn't 10%/20%", "Crew Mission percent is too low", etc.

 

So when 3.0 dropped, I logged every single crew mission I ran, until I got bored and stopped doing it. It's pretty danged close to 20%. Other people have done similar tests. The more missions they run, the closer the expected percentages are reached.

 

On the other hand, the people that say "no the percentages are wrong!" only provide anecdotal information. As you just did above.

 

Want to make a case for the crit rate being out of whack? Start logging your missions. If you're right, you'll have some actual useful data to bring to the bugs forum.

 

What I love about your post there is.. you detail the costs per purple mat..

 

If I split up the cost of obtaining the purples by each type:

Adaptive Circuitry - 3,322cr ea

Verpine Fiber - 3,720cr ea

Midlithe Crystal - 4,864cr ea

Autoimmune Regulator - 5,350cr ea

Doonium - 6,019cr ea

 

And all the people complaining about how the mat sellers aren't gouging can look at this chart and realize how false that is. The mark up is an order of magnitude higher than the cost to obtain the mats. Well except for Doonium and Auto Regulators. Nope, no gouging here, don't see it...

[Bruceme]

I beg to differ.

 

You see, I've been hearing complaints about crafting percentages for 3 years. "RE isn't 10%/20%", "Crew Mission percent is too low", etc.

 

So when 3.0 dropped, I logged every single crew mission I ran, until I got bored and stopped doing it. It's pretty danged close to 20%. Other people have done similar tests. The more missions they run, the closer the expected percentages are reached.

 

On the other hand, the people that say "no the percentages are wrong!" only provide anecdotal information. As you just did above.

 

Want to make a case for the crit rate being out of whack? Start logging your missions. If you're right, you'll have some actual useful data to bring to the bugs forum.

 

I'm glad we are having this conversation, because this is exactly the stated reason why the Cartel Machine was created. EA expected higher yields on purple augments, demand was exceeding supply. there are only 3 possible explanations.

 

1. not enough level 500 slicers and treasure hunters out there to meet the demand

2. those with level 500 skills are not running them because the cost of running missions is too high

3. EA made miscalculations on the crit rate percentages.

 

there are other factors at play, a player may not have the perfect tradeskill setup, wrong class, wrong companions to execute your "on paper" 20 percent crit rate.

 

either way you slice it, EA has determined there are simply not enough purple 11 components out there. instead of lowering the cost of companion missions or looking at the crit rate, they decided to give us the Cartel Machine.

Remove the Cartel Machine from the picture, and we are left with no solutions and we find ourselves in the same boat as before. whether this is a sustainable solution is up to EA. but from their latest noble attempt. i would believe it to be a top priority.

[comestbest]

problem is a lot of people these days have an entitlement and socialist mindset. it's bankrupting most countries. they don't understand freedom and the free market and they get very jealous of others who achieve more than they do through hard work and greater intelligence.

 

 

they just want their easy mode slot machine to get "free stuff" because they don't want to put the effort in leveling alts and leveling skills and maxing affection and logging in and sending the companions on missions and organizing it all.

 

 

the slot machine was a disaster that should never have been implemented and it's going to take weeks or months for the in game economy to recover.

[Jeweledleah]

No 186 Is still not starting gear, would you feel better if they change basic to SCRAP coms insteed then ?

 

The LOWEST we can craft is Green = start gear.

Artifact gear have never been starting gear ever in this game nor likely never be, most want them due to they are better and makes it simpler to do things, that don't make it starting gear.

 

As for basic coms, well all other was removed and BASIC is simply a NAME not in anyway does it imply starting gear now does it.

 

........

 

you do realize that 186 is the gear you buy with basic coms? you know those basic coms you get for doing dailies, or pretty much any solo content under max level nowadays since they rolled planetary coms into basics?

 

so you can literally gear an alt in 186 gear, if you so wanted, by doing nothing but low level quests?

 

186 artifact IS starter gear. and yes, basic coms DO imply starter gear, they did even before planetary commendations being rolled into them.

 

green is not starter gear. green is the step you take towards actual starter gear.

[Heat-Wave]

Y'know - NOT every crafter was out to screw people over. I craft crap all the time for myself, my wife, and my guild-mates and ask for materials if they have them, or do it for FREE. The return rate on PURPLE MATS and even some greens are insanely low!! Please, don't lump all of us into the same 'effing category!

 

^ This...

 

I have a long standing guild policy, pre 3.0 I crafted anything 156 if you gave me the purples, I ate the cost of the white/green/blue mats... Now it is 186, I'll make anything 186 for just the purples, eating the white/green/blue mats...

 

And yes, sometimes I just outright give stuff to guildmate, depending on how active and helpful they are.

[Grayseven]

You aren't destroying HM 60 FPs and SM 60 Ops in 186 basic comm gear that's not augmented.

 

So crafted 186 gear IS starter gear, because even if you use the gear obtained with comms or quest lines, you still need to augment it to be effective at endgame content.

 

I never said it wasn't augmented. But yes, you can still destroy a HM FP or SM Op in 178 unaugmented gear. It's all about the mechanics. If you can't do HM FP or SM Ops in basic 178's and need the crutch of 186 gear augmented, it means you don't know your rotation or priority and the mechanics are still getting you.

 

Of course, you may not be able to clear the Ops, but that is what progression is all about.

 

If you don't need it, it is a luxury. The moment you need it, it stops being a luxury.

[Khevar]

And all the people complaining about how the mat sellers aren't gouging can look at this chart and realize how false that is. The mark up is an order of magnitude higher than the cost to obtain the mats. Well except for Doonium and Auto Regulators. Nope, no gouging here, don't see it...

I don't disagree -- with a 2000% markup, these things were wayyyy overpriced.

 

But here's what I don't understand about the people that complain about the gougers -- why not become self-sufficient? When I think things are too expensive, I don't buy them. If I think things I need are too expensive, I make them myself.

 

BUYERS determine the price of gear that doesn't come from operations, NOT sellers. Every single "price gouger" in the game could be put out of business if people became self sufficient. But most don't.

1. not enough level 500 slicers and treasure hunters out there to meet the demand

2. those with level 500 skills are not running them because the cost of running missions is too high

3. EA made miscalculations on the crit rate percentages.

I'd like to offer a fourth reason:

 

4. Early in the release of a new tier of gear, demand exceeds supply and people overprice things.

 

This happened when 2.0 dropped. Ooosh! Augments (and kits) were selling for biiiiig bucks. Thermal Regulators were a HOT ticket item.

 

Then time passed.

 

Eventually, most people had augments for their main toons. Prices dropped. Margins went from "absurdly high" to "good".

 

This would have happened with 186 gear -- the slots machines just shortcut the process.

Edited January 22, 2015 by Khevar

[Grayseven]

........

 

you do realize that 186 is the gear you buy with basic coms? you know those basic coms you get for doing dailies, or pretty much any solo content under max level nowadays since they rolled planetary coms into basics?

 

so you can literally gear an alt in 186 gear, if you so wanted, by doing nothing but low level quests?

 

186 artifact IS starter gear. and yes, basic coms DO imply starter gear, they did even before planetary commendations being rolled into them.

 

green is not starter gear. green is the step you take towards actual starter gear.

 

If you start with it, it is starter gear.

 

It doesn't matter if you can get it with basic comms, that doesn't make it basic starter gear no matter how many make this false and misleading argument.

 

The basic comm thing is new. Before, when they were planetary comms, you were only leveling with them. You can thank EA/BW for making it easier to get better gear, but don't equate basic comms and starter gear. Two different things.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

If you start with it, it is starter gear.

 

It doesn't matter if you can get it with basic comms, that doesn't make it basic starter gear no matter how many make this false and misleading argument.

 

The basic comm thing is new. Before, when they were planetary comms, you were only leveling with them. You can thank EA/BW for making it easier to get better gear, but don't equate basic comms and starter gear. Two different things.

 

The only way green is starter gear is for the crafter. The greens are the entry to RE for blue and purple. It is not starter gear for 60s. Also, your comment about having so many comms is wrong as well. You can start the entry quest for SOV with 0 basic comms and have it maxxed by the end. You get like 3 crates of basic comms with either 50 or 150 cant remember the number. I know, cause I did it. I had used all my comms to upgrade my companions, literally started SOV with like 5 comms, when done, had close to 500.

[OddballEasyEight]

problem is a lot of people these days have an entitlement and socialist mindset. it's bankrupting most countries. they don't understand freedom and the free market and they get very jealous of others who achieve more than they do through hard work and greater intelligence.

 

 

they just want their easy mode slot machine to get "free stuff" because they don't want to put the effort in leveling alts and leveling skills and maxing affection and logging in and sending the companions on missions and organizing it all.

 

 

the slot machine was a disaster that should never have been implemented and it's going to take weeks or months for the in game economy to recover.

 

I wasn't aware that Ayn Rand was still alive and playing this game...

[Grayseven]

The only way green is starter gear is for the crafter. The greens are the entry to RE for blue and purple. It is not starter gear for 60s. Also, your comment about having so many comms is wrong as well. You can start the entry quest for SOV with 0 basic comms and have it maxxed by the end. You get like 3 crates of basic comms with either 50 or 150 cant remember the number. I know, cause I did it. I had used all my comms to upgrade my companions, literally started SOV with like 5 comms, when done, had close to 500.

 

Wrong. Again, don't equate the basic comms due to the conversion and the "crates" of 99 comms with it. If you weren't being handed comms left and right with the conversion, you would have to actually work to get your gear.

 

You have to look at what it takes to earn a piece.

 

You have to look at what you are doing with it.

 

If you use 168 gear, you can run Rishi and Yavin quests. If you want to go farther, you have to start upgrading for FP's. You can do this with basic comms on Rishi and get 178 gear. Just because you can also get 186 gear with them does not make 186 gear starter gear, no matter how many times you say it.

 

It is a luxury. You do not need 186 gear.

 

And again, if it's so bloody easy to get 186 gear through comms, why are people whining about the slot change? You don't need to craft it or buy the crated stuff since you have your comms, right?

[OddballEasyEight]

The only way green is starter gear is for the crafter. The greens are the entry to RE for blue and purple. It is not starter gear for 60s. Also, your comment about having so many comms is wrong as well. You can start the entry quest for SOV with 0 basic comms and have it maxxed by the end. You get like 3 crates of basic comms with either 50 or 150 cant remember the number. I know, cause I did it. I had used all my comms to upgrade my companions, literally started SOV with like 5 comms, when done, had close to 500.

 

3 crates á 99 basic coms... so it's 397 comms that you get at the start of Rishii.

[OddballEasyEight]

I don't disagree -- with a 2000% markup, these things were wayyyy overpriced.

 

But here's what I don't understand about the people that complain about the gougers -- why not become self-sufficient? When I think things are too expensive, I don't buy them. If I think things I need are too expensive, I make them myself.

 

BUYERS determine the price of gear that doesn't come from operations, NOT sellers. Every single "price gouger" in the game could be put out of business if people became self sufficient. But most don't.

 

The problem with being "self sufficient" is that it's slow as hell.

Sure, you can run your own crew missions, but you'd need at least 5-10 alts that do nothing but run crew missions to get the purple mats at any decent rate.

And the mats sellers know this.

We NEED the mats sellers because crafting will be a very slow and stagnant affair without them.

And that's why they know they can gouge the prices for the rare mats.

[Mariojediwookie]

........

 

you do realize that 186 is the gear you buy with basic coms? you know those basic coms you get for doing dailies, or pretty much any solo content under max level nowadays since they rolled planetary coms into basics?

 

so you can literally gear an alt in 186 gear, if you so wanted, by doing nothing but low level quests?

 

186 artifact IS starter gear. and yes, basic coms DO imply starter gear, they did even before planetary commendations being rolled into them.

 

green is not starter gear. green is the step you take towards actual starter gear.

 

186 crafted mods > 186 Basic Com gear

 

You get better stats if you use the crafted mods. 186 gear is required for end game content. So to start end game content you need 186 gear, I don't think that means the same thing as it being starter gear. Starter gear is the crap they give you when you reach level 10. Now I guess you could say if you are starting end game content then I suppose this is starter gear for that.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Wrong. Again, don't equate the basic comms due to the conversion and the "crates" of 99 comms with it. If you weren't being handed comms left and right with the conversion, you would have to actually work to get your gear.

 

You have to look at what it takes to earn a piece.

 

You have to look at what you are doing with it.

 

If you use 168 gear, you can run Rishi and Yavin quests. If you want to go farther, you have to start upgrading for FP's. You can do this with basic comms on Rishi and get 178 gear. Just because you can also get 186 gear with them does not make 186 gear starter gear, no matter how many times you say it.

 

It is a luxury. You do not need 186 gear.

 

And again, if it's so bloody easy to get 186 gear through comms, why are people whining about the slot change? You don't need to craft it or buy the crated stuff since you have your comms, right?

 

Whatever man, I among others think otherwise. I guess you want to keep telling yourself that, no law against it.

[Mariojediwookie]

The problem with being "self sufficient" is that it's slow as hell.

Sure, you can run your own crew missions, but you'd need at least 5-10 alts that do nothing but run crew missions to get the purple mats at any decent rate.

And the mats sellers know this.

We NEED the mats sellers because crafting will be a very slow and stagnant affair without them.

And that's why they know they can gouge the prices for the rare mats.

 

Who would have thought.......a job no one wants to do but everyone needs the job to be done and the person gets paid through the roof to do it. It's funny when I go get my car looked at and I end up with $500 in charges and more than half of that is labor (2 hours of work). If I don't like the prices I could always learn to fix my car but that would require an investment in time. Most don't want to do that and just take the car in and swallow the $100 per hour fee. This is how society works, if the majority of people don't want to do something but need that service, prepare to pay through the roof for it.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

186 crafted mods > 186 Basic Com gear

 

You get better stats if you use the crafted mods. 186 gear is required for end game content. So to start end game content you need 186 gear, I don't think that means the same thing as it being starter gear. Starter gear is the crap they give you when you reach level 10. Now I guess you could say if you are starting end game content then I suppose this is starter gear for that.

 

That makes more sense, but we are talking about calling 186 gear a luxury which it is not. If you consider 186 gear a luxury at 60, you really are doing something wrong.

 

butnin regards to crafted 186 over basic gear 186, you are right about that. It would have to be for crafters to be worth anything at all.

[scottocamp]

problem is a lot of people these days have an entitlement and socialist mindset. it's bankrupting most countries. they don't understand freedom and the free market and they get very jealous of others who achieve more than they do through hard work and greater intelligence.

 

 

they just want their easy mode slot machine to get "free stuff" because they don't want to put the effort in leveling alts and leveling skills and maxing affection and logging in and sending the companions on missions and organizing it all.

 

 

the slot machine was a disaster that should never have been implemented and it's going to take weeks or months for the in game economy to recover.

 

But this is a video game! I put plenty of effort into my job, my marriage and my real life. But I don't want my entertainment time to be a series of unnecessarily dull chores (i.e. repeatedly logging in and out of 22 alts). Making a video game fun and enjoyable is not socialism. Asking for fun things in a video game - like a slot machine - that makes the game less tedious is not socialism. Movie theaters don't ask people to climb 20 flights of stairs to weed out all the folks not willing to "put in the effort" to see the movie. This is a Star Wars video game. It's not supposed to be a second job.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

But this is a video game! I put plenty of effort into my job, my marriage and my real life. But I don't want my entertainment time to be a series of unnecessarily dull chores (i.e. repeatedly logging in and out of 22 alts). Making a video game fun and enjoyable is not socialism. Asking for fun things in a video game - like a slot machine - that makes the game less tedious is not socialism. Movie theaters don't ask people to climb 20 flights of stairs to weed out all the folks not willing to "put in the effort" to see the movie. This is a Star Wars video game. It's not supposed to be a second job.

 

Not to mention, the guy you are replying to actually has no idea why the countries are actually going bankrupt lol

[Ilhares]

Lets face it crafter's have been screwing people for years in this game 200% markups etc etc offering to craft "for you" then keeping proc's and demanding tips, The slot machine leveled the field anyone could now craft with far less farm time... and the crafter's *****ed and QQed so they could get their captive audience back.

There might be some scumbags out there who behave as you suggest, but I have never met them. I am a crafter. The majority of what I do whenever I am logged in is crafting related. A 200% markup? If somethin will vendor for 17k, that means I'd be charging 34k for it.

 

That would a really a low price, all things considered, based on the time and work that went into making the stuff and getting schematics. I like to be able to craft things and sell them at a fair price. So would many other crafters I know. The problem is greedy people. I had a batch of 30 enhancements snapped up within minutes of posting - you'd think that was good. Well, sure, I got my credits back, that was good, but I listed them at the reasonable prices to help out the little guy - the folks who aren't toting around 30 million credits because they can't afford to rape the market selling cartel goods. Instead, what I found was my enhancements listed on the GTN again - for 10x the price I had put them up, by a market flipping dickbag.

 

Yes, it's a legit method of doing "business", but I prefer to sell to the end-user, not a middleman who's actually ruining the market for everybody. Unfortunately, this leads many to the next stage - where they have to raise their prices on goods up high enough that the market flippers don't see enough profit potential to buy them and re-sell. Which still screws the little guy.

 

With the rarity problem of materials somewhat abated by the use of the assorted scrap drop, there was no real concern about the market-flippers, because by the time they bought my stuff I could have another full batch in production. I could out-produce either their wallet or their GTN/Cargo storage capacity. And I could do it for less.

 

That was a win, I wasn't going to cry about that at all.

[JattaGin]

3 crates á 99 basic coms... so it's 397 comms that you get at the start of Rishii.

 

It is actually even less, because 3 x 99 = 297.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

And all the people complaining about how the mat sellers aren't gouging can look at this chart and realize how false that is. The mark up is an order of magnitude higher than the cost to obtain the mats. Well except for Doonium and Auto Regulators. Nope, no gouging here, don't see it...

 

Gouging pfft, a mythical term made up by the uber lazy.

 

If you don't want to pay market prices go get your own mats the same as anyone else selling them does. You can choose to list them cheaper if you want, that's your perogative, or use them yourself.

 

To imply that market forces that dictate a certain price is "gouging" is pretty damn stupid along with everyone else referring to gathering market barons or what have you. No one is doing anything you personally can not do yourself thus there is no monopoly or conspiracy.

 

problem is a lot of people these days have an entitlement and socialist mindset. it's bankrupting most countries. they don't understand freedom and the free market and they get very jealous of others who achieve more than they do through hard work and greater intelligence.

 

 

they just want their easy mode slot machine to get "free stuff" because they don't want to put the effort in leveling alts and leveling skills and maxing affection and logging in and sending the companions on missions and organizing it all.

 

 

the slot machine was a disaster that should never have been implemented and it's going to take weeks or months for the in game economy to recover.

 

Well said. As to alts ... I have my main and 1 alt and I'm in game rich from doing research and work ( far from what I would call "hard" work ). What is everyone else's excuse? You don't need 10 toons to get rich, you just need to be semi intelligent.

 

^ This...

 

I have a long standing guild policy, pre 3.0 I crafted anything 156 if you gave me the purples, I ate the cost of the white/green/blue mats... Now it is 186, I'll make anything 186 for just the purples, eating the white/green/blue mats...

 

And yes, sometimes I just outright give stuff to guildmate, depending on how active and helpful they are.

 

Except you are talking about your guild mates and what not, no one cares about that in terms of the market itself hence all the hate I guess.

 

BUYERS determine the price of gear that doesn't come from operations, NOT sellers. Every single "price gouger" in the game could be put out of business if people became self sufficient. But most don't.

 

Exactly this, lazy whingers I call them but I know you won't because you're much more polite.

[JattaGin]

But this is a video game! I put plenty of effort into my job, my marriage and my real life. But I don't want my entertainment time to be a series of unnecessarily dull chores (i.e. repeatedly logging in and out of 22 alts). Making a video game fun and enjoyable is not socialism. Asking for fun things in a video game - like a slot machine - that makes the game less tedious is not socialism. Movie theaters don't ask people to climb 20 flights of stairs to weed out all the folks not willing to "put in the effort" to see the movie. This is a Star Wars video game. It's not supposed to be a second job.

 

This should be bold and in capitals! 100% agreed.

 

Sometimes I have 12 hour shifts. Whoever knows how that feels, also knows that the last thing you want to do is having to work something in a game you play for relaxing. The slot machine was a perfect mini game after a long working day. It was fun and easy and not a waste of time. If there would be pazaak in the game, I would surely prefer this, but the slot machine is better than no mini game.

 

Now, one could argue that maybe people like me should just play casual games on facebook or something and not a MMO. Sure, this is a valid point. But isn't it better for Bioware and all Swtor players if casual players play THIS game and keep on funding it? I surely think so.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The problem with being "self sufficient" is that it's slow as hell.

Sure, you can run your own crew missions, but you'd need at least 5-10 alts that do nothing but run crew missions to get the purple mats at any decent rate.

And the mats sellers know this.

We NEED the mats sellers because crafting will be a very slow and stagnant affair without them.

And that's why they know they can gouge the prices for the rare mats.

 

Again, it's not gouging if it's something that everyone can do. It's not there was an earthquake and I have the only Midlithe crystals in the game and you can't possibly get them any other way. That would be gouging.

 

Even a 1 of a kind item that I set my price on isn't gouging because I've not taken advantage of any unforeseen emergency or strange situation to set my price, I set it soley based on the rarity of it.

 

You couldn't even call it profiteering because again, everyone has the ability to get the materials the same as everyone else.

 

The fact you think it takes too long isn't a basis to call people gougers, what it is is you being impatient and turning to the free market to expediate the process. That is your choice and because you choose to do so it doesn't make those participating in the free market gougers in any sense of the word.

 

my marriage and my real life. But I don't want my entertainment time to be a series of unnecessarily dull chores (i.e. repeatedly logging in and out of 22 alts). Making a video game fun and enjoyable is not socialism. Asking for fun things in a video game - like a slot machine - that makes the game less tedious is not socialism. Movie theaters don't ask people to climb 20 flights of stairs to weed out all the folks not willing to "put in the effort" to see the movie. This is a Star Wars video game. It's not supposed to be a second job.

 

It can be fun and enjoyable without the mats. You don't NEED them. As another topic within this topic is illustrating you can get basic comm gear that is enough to run the story mode aspects of the operations and the hardmode flashpoints so why exactly do you NEED materials to enjoy the game itself?

 

Also how is clicking a slot machine over and over and over less tedious than crew skills? Get real.

 

Point is you don't NEED to have materials or to craft in this game, you choose to do so. It's been this way since launch and only now are people dropping the "fun" excuse after the slot machine was removed.

 

Unfortunately, this leads many to the next stage - where they have to raise their prices on goods up high enough that the market flippers don't see enough profit potential to buy them and re-sell. Which still screws the little guy.

 

Whilst I agree flipping CAN lead to increased prices it generally doesn't except for materials that have a rare to supply to begin with. Materials that have a high supply and flippers try push the market up tend to lose out because by the time they buy up say 50 items at 50K each and want to re-list at 100K the people selling at 50K have already relisted more items they've made and the attempted price jacking fails.

 

This is from experience, the GTN is the main reason I play this game, it's what I do lately instead of anything else ( HM FPs dont pop and I'm waiting for op's to be fixed properly before wasting too much time pugging ). So this really doesn't occur on the majority of common goods. Yes it does occur on Cartel Market items but those are considered luxury goods and far from neccessity items, no one is forcing anyone to buy those and there is no NEED for them.

[krisknife]

the worst part about all this is, the supposed consolation prize, a *GASP* walker mount, which sounds good in writing, turned out to be a pitiful mount with only 90% speed. That is just like wow man....talk about salt in a wound.