Frybert Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Also, I think they have their hands full with something else right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It would appear that 99% of the posts are in regards to the Slot Machine now and not what is going to happen to Ravagers exploiters. Perhaps BioWare's Slot Machine Swindle exploit is "what has happened to the Ravagers exploiters." I'll bet lots of people who buy Hypercrates and got Slot Machines did the Exploit. Now they are being punished. Sure, lots of other people are getting punished by it too. Acceptable collateral damage. And no one saw it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just going to set this right here for you straight from Musco himself http://www.twitch.tv/swtor/b/611950974?t=89m8s Funny thing here... if you actually watched what he said he said they were going to be more open about it and that they were going to take action in this because people thought they could get away with it. No where did he say they were going to tell people what exact actions were going to be taken, and specifically said they were not going to provide any numbers on any action. So for everyone that has been waiting gleefully so they could try to publicly shame people or get off on the punishment of others I hate to break it to you but that stream does not mean they are going to post anything else on the matter. They have already been more open than they have in the past and have already stated they were going to take action against those who exploited. They dont have to post anything else about what theyve done, you ARENT going to get the exact information you so desperately need to sleep at night, and theyve already done everything he said they were going to do in that stream. Not saying they wont post something along the lines of what they did with the credit exploiters, but those of you demanding they give you numbers as to how many accounts were permabanned or suspended, it isnt going to happen. Musco said that in that stream. And for everyone claiming they are going to just sweep this under the rug, unless you have proof that they havent already taken action that extends beyond more than I saw a guy online I know did the exploit then you have zero way of knowing what they might have already done or what they are getting ready to do and you really shouldnt know anyways. It means absolutely nothing to you if Joe Schmo on the Harbinger gets banned or suspended or has all his gear removed. Regardless of what they do to those who exploited, youll still be able to play the game. Their decision has zero impact on you unless you were one of the ones that exploited. So stop demanding they appease you by telling you stuff theyve already said they arent going to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I still expect them to take actions, no matter how much they try to distract us. "Get used to disappointment." -- Wesley, The Dread Pirate Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divana Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Perhaps BioWare's Slot Machine Swindle exploit is "what has happened to the Ravagers exploiters." I'll bet lots of people who buy Hypercrates and got Slot Machines did the Exploit. Now they are being punished. Sure, lots of other people are getting punished by it too. Acceptable collateral damage. And no one saw it coming. But but that would be mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'll bet lots of people who buy Hypercrates and got Slot Machines did the Exploit. Now they are being punished. Sure, lots of other people are getting punished by it too. Acceptable collateral damage. I guess it depends on how much mats people managed to hoard up in the week it was active as that seems more a reward than punishment to me. i.e. you would only need little over 1 stack of Purple Jawa Junk to have recouped a 4 million Slot Machine purchase in say Midlithe crystals when they return to value. I would think almost everyone interested in this as a money maker at least got this plus far more to make far more profit. That's assuming they of course do return to the 40K+ value and imo they most certainly will imo as the rush of supply dries up. Even @ 20K ( where it was close to last night I believe ) that's only 2 stacks of purple. Whilst I believe some people have valid gripes with the changes to slots I think many are pissed their money tree got cut down. I also think the crit rate is slightly out ... I would think 1% for purple, 2% for blue, 3% for green - leave cartel certs as are. Would seem more viable. Thus a stack of 99 may yield 1 purple which can have a value of 40K which comes out as a slight profit with the Rep items also. Anyway slightly off topic but oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 And for everyone claiming they are going to just sweep this under the rug, unless you have proof that they havent already taken action that extends beyond more than I saw a guy online I know did the exploit then you have zero way of knowing what they might have already done or what they are getting ready to do and you really shouldnt know anyways. It means absolutely nothing to you if Joe Schmo on the Harbinger gets banned or suspended or has all his gear removed. Regardless of what they do to those who exploited, youll still be able to play the game. Their decision has zero impact on you unless you were one of the ones that exploited. So stop demanding they appease you by telling you stuff theyve already said they arent going to tell you. People work on the weight of assumptions and common knowledge. Common knowledge in this case is A LOT of people exploited this on Harbinger ( any one who has bothered to look around fleet @ 60's can clearly see this ) and with so many people having committed infractions the general trend would be some outbursts, comments etc. hitting reddit which have not occurred yet at all. Based on that one can assume thus far nothing of substance to the majority of players who exploited has been done unless every one of them decided for whatever reason to keep quiet about it which seems HIGHLY unlikely. Also calm the hell down, what effect does it have on you either way? Most of us just want to know if we can trust Bioware at all any more to keep their word or to punish exploiters or if they are full of it and we should all be out looking for the next great exploit to exploit. Combine that with the recent slot machine fiasco and a lot of people are losing faith in Bioware ( beyond your usual forum hate squad ). Eric mentioned in that stream that they wanted to avoid the perception that many people have that this will get swept under the carpet or that they won't take action or are just tlaking crp and he said they definitely want to avoid giving people that perception and to do that an update will be required saying that action has been taken. He said he won't give numbers or name names and that's fine. All we want is to know something has been done and we can work the rest out for ourselves if our curiosity so dictates. Which again doesn't affect you regardless of if you cheated or not, it's on you to share your personal information in that regard of whehter you did or not and what happened as a result since Bioware aren't going to do it. Thing is we know some people will want to share said information and that's their choice to do so also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danery Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 People work on the weight of assumptions and common knowledge. Common knowledge in this case is A LOT of people exploited this on Harbinger ( any one who has bothered to look around fleet @ 60's can clearly see this ) and with so many people having committed infractions the general trend would be some outbursts, comments etc. hitting reddit which have not occurred yet at all. Based on that one can assume thus far nothing of substance to the majority of players who exploited has been done unless every one of them decided for whatever reason to keep quiet about it which seems HIGHLY unlikely. Also calm the hell down, what effect does it have on you either way? Most of us just want to know if we can trust Bioware at all any more to keep their word or to punish exploiters or if they are full of it and we should all be out looking for the next great exploit to exploit. Combine that with the recent slot machine fiasco and a lot of people are losing faith in Bioware ( beyond your usual forum hate squad ). Eric mentioned in that stream that they wanted to avoid the perception that many people have that this will get swept under the carpet or that they won't take action or are just tlaking crp and he said they definitely want to avoid giving people that perception and to do that an update will be required saying that action has been taken. He said he won't give numbers or name names and that's fine. All we want is to know something has been done and we can work the rest out for ourselves if our curiosity so dictates. Which again doesn't affect you regardless of if you cheated or not, it's on you to share your personal information in that regard of whehter you did or not and what happened as a result since Bioware aren't going to do it. Thing is we know some people will want to share said information and that's their choice to do so also. So the lack of people complaining = proof they didnt do anything? Sorry but thats just incorrect. People like you wont be satisfied unless you can name and shame every single person that gets punished. Too bad. Get over it. They arent going to tell you. And no the fact that there arent any posts on reddit doesnt mean people havent been or arent going to be punished and bioware doesnt need to tell you what they did if they take action. If they dont, youll either get over it or youll leave. Either way it wont be a big loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So the lack of people complaining = proof they didnt do anything? Sorry but thats just incorrect. It's all about probability. There were many people complaining and being worried when they heard that a punishment is waiting for them. Now, what is more likely: a) That these same people ALL remain completely silent about their punishment or b) That these people complain about being punished? To me, b) seems much more likely, if I think about how strong some of these people reacted. I would assume that at least one person would write something somewhere. If ze whole interwebz has nada about, chances are that this is because there is nada to write about. The few exploiting players that I personally know are still in the game and are equipped and wealthy as before. All this is surely not a proof, but as I said... the probability... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transcendent Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Also calm the hell down, what effect does it have on you either way? Most of us just want to know if we can trust Bioware at all any more to keep their word or to punish exploiters or if they are full of it and we should all be out looking for the next great exploit to exploit. Combine that with the recent slot machine fiasco and a lot of people are losing faith in Bioware ( beyond your usual forum hate squad ). Eric mentioned in that stream that they wanted to avoid the perception that many people have that this will get swept under the carpet or that they won't take action or are just tlaking crp and he said they definitely want to avoid giving people that perception and to do that an update will be required saying that action has been taken. He said he won't give numbers or name names and that's fine. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Like i said before they will punish people but some are in for a rude awakening as they want every on e to be perma banned for even doing it once and BW will not do that. I taking the stance that BW will be fair with it punishment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 So the lack of people complaining = proof they didnt do anything? Like I said it's common knowledge that that is what would occur. If you want to believe differently feel free but don't prattle on like your unsubstantiated view is somewhat "how it is". People like you wont be satisfied unless you can name and shame every single person that gets punished. Too bad. Get over it. Funny seeing as I never actually said I wanted that and only wanted confirmation that action had been taken. Stop putting words in people's mouths to try justify your poorly made argument. They arent going to tell you. And no the fact that there arent any posts on reddit doesnt mean people havent been or arent going to be punished and bioware doesnt need to tell you what they did if they take action. If they dont, youll either get over it or youll leave. Either way it wont be a big loss They aren't? Tell me what exactly? You got some inside word then? Yes the fact there are no posts on reddit means it's highly unlikely any mass action has been taken. See what I did there? "highly unlikely" as in not saying with a certainty one way or the other ( which you imply I am doing, wrong again ). It's using a little bit of common sense to reach a fairly logical conclusion. If you lack in the common sense department ... not my problem. If they don't tell me personally and there is no sign of any action being taken I will rage on the forums for the next few months! RAGE I SAY! All this is surely not a proof, but as I said... the probability... Add to this many members ofm y guild are basically waiting to be banned and nothing has happened yet to them and it supports the view nothing has happened. I don't get why everyone thinks something is going to happen exactly today or tomorrow. It may take another week or so but I am still confident something will happen, Eric implied as much in that stream and if nothing happens by the next one or the cantina tour I'm sure they'll have to make some other statement as they get quizzed over it. What it may all come down to is they are actually going to do a thorough job and eliminate the risk of false positives as much as possible which many were worried about. I would prefer they took their time and did a proper job then rushed it through and half assed it anyway. All the while many cheaters live on in a state of anxiety wondering what and when it will occur whilst pretending they don't care but yet still getting defensive on the forums betraying their supposed "lack of care". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuriDogshin Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 People work on the weight of assumptions and common knowledge. Common knowledge in this case is A LOT of people exploited this on Harbinger ( any one who has bothered to look around fleet @ 60's can clearly see this ) I only wear my BtL raid gear when I'm raiding, and tend to walk around fleet in empty CM shells. Plus, our guild Flagship is pretty well equipped, so I rarely have to go to the fleet anyway. So if there are many exploiters in a situation like mine, the numbers may be skewed low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toecuttr Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 OMG, some of you guys really crack me up. You cant "PUNISH" subscribers without the risk that they unsubscribe. Simple econimics dictate that that the punishment will be token at best. Who really cares anyway? Let's face it, someone at bioware dropped the ball and didn't put a stop to. I feel sorry for the poor guy at Bioware who's probably lost or is at risk of losing his job over this. Surely someones livelihood is more important than some GAME? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neoforcer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 OMG, some of you guys really crack me up. You cant "PUNISH" subscribers without the risk that they unsubscribe. Simple econimics dictate that that the punishment will be token at best. Who really cares anyway? Let's face it, someone at bioware dropped the ball and didn't put a stop to. I feel sorry for the poor guy at Bioware who's probably lost or is at risk of losing his job over this. Surely someones livelihood is more important than some GAME? This will be more likely there not going to do it the way angry people want them to perma ban every one they will take the safe a secure route and give out suspension to some take gear from others and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 OMG, some of you guys really crack me up. You cant "PUNISH" subscribers without the risk that they unsubscribe. Simple econimics dictate that that the punishment will be token at best. Who really cares anyway? Let's face it, someone at bioware dropped the ball and didn't put a stop to. I feel sorry for the poor guy at Bioware who's probably lost or is at risk of losing his job over this. Surely someones livelihood is more important than some GAME? You can't not punish exploiters because subscribers who didn't exploit might unsubscribe. It works both ways. As I said way back in this thread, odds are that the worst of the exploiters will get temp bans and the rest will lose the gear and schematics they gained from the exploit. Doing nothing will anger just as many people as doing something, and doing something helps repair the integrity this game seems to have lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 You can't not punish exploiters because subscribers who didn't exploit might unsubscribe. It works both ways. As I said way back in this thread, odds are that the worst of the exploiters will get temp bans and the rest will lose the gear and schematics they gained from the exploit. /Agree Doing nothing will anger just as many people as doing something, and doing something helps repair the integrity this game seems to have lost. /Agree. They have very little credibility at the moment, for a number of valid reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeNaCe-NZ Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I only wear my BtL raid gear when I'm raiding, and tend to walk around fleet in empty CM shells. Plus, our guild Flagship is pretty well equipped, so I rarely have to go to the fleet anyway. So if there are many exploiters in a situation like mine, the numbers may be skewed low Very true and I guess we'll never know unless BW released that metric ( which they would only do upon punishing the guilty one would assume ) but even based on just what one can observe if's fairly common, almost more common than not heh. Whilst also it's not fullproof that someone with 198 gear and an achievment for only the last boss in a HM raid is a cheater, it's a fair assumption since hardly any guilds can clear that far to keep the instance open for another group to beat just that boss legitimately. Bioware should really close that instance holding issue to resolve any possible chances of issues like this replicating themselves in the future. Doing nothing will anger just as many people as doing something, and doing something helps repair the integrity this game seems to have lost. Unless it turns out those that didn't do it = 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZETA_SCORPII Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) You can't not punish exploiters because subscribers who didn't exploit might unsubscribe. It works both ways. As I said way back in this thread, odds are that the worst of the exploiters will get temp bans and the rest will lose the gear and schematics they gained from the exploit. Doing nothing will anger just as many people as doing something, and doing something helps repair the integrity this game seems to have lost. Because I un-subbed when nothing was done with those who exploited Nefra, PvP win trading, etc. Why the **** would I care what happens to cheaters? I believe in Karma, that **** ALWAYS comes back so the pitchfork crew just needs to give it a rest because you guys are looking like desperate, pathetic fools. Edited January 22, 2015 by ZETA_SCORPII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushnchips Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 it's all the people sniffing for punishment results that are the problem, you have no right to know anything about anyone exploiting or not. This thread should have been a closed thread but Eric Musco made a huge error in judgement allowing the exploiter and non-exploiter to fuel this thread. The forums are only viewed by a very small part of the community and it's just a terrible place for possible new players to come and find out information when they come across the witch hunt style threads and Eric Musco you get the blame because you allowed this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadHoneyBadger Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I don't remember Bioware giving a pass to people so they could take advantage of the exploit, weeks on end. This includes people who transferred from one server to another, to further profit from the exploit. Stop making up excuses, please. What gave them a "pass" is that bioware allowed it to go on for weeks on end without taking any action at all, lack of Dev testing, lack of PTS testing, and evidently only 2 devs that read/post the forums. Anyways thanks for your responses Eric and Tait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachannal Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 So much this!!!! i'm still bothered by ex post facto punishment and the sometimes gray line between an exploit and strategically using game mechanics. I get the "if we label something an exploit it'll have a slew of people hearing about it and using it" but i think that ignores the efficiency of inter-player communication about really good strategies. And when several patches go by where the capacity to do this thing is untouched, that makes it harder to say "this is an exploit as opposed to a strategic opportunity". Ok, maybe this was clearly being described as an exploit - but i think most people running old ops for ultimates knew that it was something that was going away and so ran it now. What if bioware was to ban people who ran too many of those ops, and removed the commendations (or gear bought with the commendations) earned with them? Apparently bioware didn't declare that an "exploit" and so everyone who ran the ops gets to keep their shiny 198 gear bought from these ill-gotten ultimate commendations. But they could have. And yes, removing gear isn't "making things whole", because they presumably sold the gear they had before they got the new gear. Fix the exploits. If it's really bad, declare it's not allowed and punish those who partake after the rule statement. But unless the rule is "don't think strategically, just do brute force through the game", ex post facto punishment is wrong. And no, i'm not at any risk of being punished by this. But i have been running the ops that lost their ultimate commendations. I have lured the beast in atthis off his platform. I've done other things that may or may not be an exploit and i can't even post about "is this an exploit" because i can get banned from the forums for asking. And with all the problems the game has - is this really where your people should be spending their time, finding people who used a mechanism that you created and got results you didn't expect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bachannal Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) These are raiders that have dealt with lag, ability delay, broken/bugged fights (Underlurker)... You say they are showing the player base that exploiting is not okay. Well maybe the player base is showing them that releasing bugged broken content and charging money for it is not okay. Blam. Edited January 22, 2015 by Bachannal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abenegating Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 27 separate instance of The Ravagers were up in the middle of the day on my server. 27. This wasn't prime time mind you it was the middle of a week day. I can assure that far more than a handful of people participated. On my server I would venture to say over half of the active population participated. I know of a handful of people who did the exploit that are not only subs but spend hundreds of dollars on the CM. These are raiders that have dealt with lag, ability delay, broken/bugged fights (Underlurker) and they will quit and take their money elsewhere. You say they are showing the player base that exploiting is not okay. Well maybe the player base is showing them that releasing bugged broken content and charging money for it is not okay. This is basically the gist of it for those who did the exploit, and I can't say I blame them. I can only imagine that those waving their torches and pitchforks around here are of the much more casual variety, either that or they are incredibly naive and oblivious to the larger goings-on, take your pick.. So much misguided white knighting, where's the outrage over win-trading and map exploits in pvp? That's what I want to know. Way more problematic than people getting free gear. I just don't understand why people care about a pve exploit. If you want to be angry, focus on something that actually screws people over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizersan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 OMG, some of you guys really crack me up. You cant "PUNISH" subscribers without the risk that they unsubscribe. Simple econimics dictate that that the punishment will be token at best. Who really cares anyway? Let's face it, someone at bioware dropped the ball and didn't put a stop to. I feel sorry for the poor guy at Bioware who's probably lost or is at risk of losing his job over this. Surely someones livelihood is more important than some GAME? Considering they perma banned gold farmers all the time back when the game was sub only says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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