PaintSticks Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You people calling for bans; I can't tell if you are naive, stupid, or just trolling. This is a business. I would love to see Bioware execs explain to EA in a shareholders meeting that they purposely decreased revenue by issuing temp/perm bans for players exploiting a bug that THEY left in the game. That would go over real well. Issue warnings to first timers, harsher punishments to repeat offenders, and move the f**k on. Stop worrying about how the person next you you got his 192 mod as opposed to your 186. Pretty much this. If they had said something, anything, during all of it that players would get banned if you continue using it, then maybe they would have had an 'I told you to stop using it and you continued, banhammer now'. But they didn't. Those talking about credibility, they lost all that when they had other exploits and didn't ban those players for doing them! What kind of credibility would they have if they banned for this exploit, but not any of the other they this past year! This whole thing is a **** show, and I actually really feel sorry for this mess they have to clean up, but really the situation was not handled properly. If this exploit is as terrible as some gamers as saying, they would have done a little something about it, but they didn't, so is it really as 'the sky is falling' terrible as people are making it seem? Probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryand Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Man reading these threads is very informative. They are a very effective way to quickly learn which forum posters are massive tards who can't see past their own extreme bias, so I can go forward reading every future post they make with the right frame of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I've pointed out that this is false on page 6. Hmmm...maybe my display is different than yours but I don't see a post from you at all on page 6 besides the top one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarrinMarshall Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I really can't believe any of you people in here so anxious to get people banned. 1) Bioware doesn't give a tinkers damn about this game. They don't police it, people are free to spam racist, sexist, vulgar language in fleet ad nauseum etc. Gold seller spam runs rampant (Harbinger) 2) Bioware released this expansion fully aware of all it's problems, this bug included which was reported in beta and then ignored. This is Bioware's mistake, not the playerbase. 3) Absolutely no ones life is effected by people that have done this exploit. Players are not out money, or time, or suddenly can't log in and play or anything else because others took advantage of Biowares mistake. 4) People hack in PVP too often to be called rare and continue to do so.... what about them? THIS IS A FREAKING GAME, NOT REAL LIFE! I could design a hack that stole every credit from every player on Harbinger and in the end it doesn't make one **** of difference in the real world, not one. Might make me unsportsmanlike or diabolical but that's about it. No, I did not partake in this mistake of Bioware's doing but they should just patch/fix it and move on. The playerbase is already looking for reasons to quit or continue to un-subbing, they've already mishandled damn near everything with the xpack anyhow and this will help set peeps over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillingFear Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The only thing I can say about this is its HORRIBLE how the community itself is sorting things out for Bioware nowadays when it comes to this game. The community has to figure out that the in-game UI is contributing to FPS drops in-game and turning it off causes massive improvements (despite you not being able to properly play using skills etc), and now the community having to come up with solutions on how to deal with exploiters (mind you not all of them realistic but still). This has completely changed my perspective on this company and how this game is handled. You read on the forums a lot of negativity and individuals questioning whether or not Bioware has the resources to figure out who the exploiters are, or the ability to perform rollbacks, or the ability to find these bugs out themselves (fps issues, raid bugs etc) and to be quite honest I don't completely disagree. I think Bioware needs to invest more resources and manpower into game testing, bug fixes, and customer support (reporting players etc) than just focusing solely on producing "new content" and that's it. As far as the exploiters go I honestly hope that there is some sort of punishment for something like this. I agree that it sets the tone for future exploits in one way or another no matter how you break it down. Think the more realistic idea is creating new gear as I agree with most others that I don't believe Bioware has the tools nor the personnel to identify exploits to punish them confidently otherwise PVP season rewards wouldn't continually be given out to people exploiting certain things there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Hmmm...maybe my display is different than yours but I don't see a post from you at all on page 6 besides the top one. My bad, bottom of 5: You need two things to successfully complete Operations: Gear and skill. The more you have of one, the less you need of the other. Trivializing gear trivializes the skill needed to complete the Ops. Your vendor gear point is irrelevant since vendor gear is optimized terribly. For some classes, 186 Ops gear is better than 198 comm gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarrinMarshall Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 This exploit is a perfect scapegoat for Bioware to not own up to their mistakes, and the fact that they provided us with a half complete mess of an expansion for our hard earned money. Instead of acting though, they should publicly apologize to every subscriber, bowing so deep that they could kiss the ground. Its probably the biggest insult in gaming in 2014 after Ubisoft when they dookied the bad also. The constant lag, the never ending game braking bugs, the current state of pvp... its blood boiling how none of the developers even acknowledge that theres a huge problem with this expansion. Ability delay... right, thats like the tip of the iceberg. But when theres an exploit, they ride in on their trusty steeds like heroes... give me a break. I hope even more people do the exploit until they fix it, as a payment, to make amends how they screwed us over with 3.0. I cant even think of an instance or a part of the game, which is not bugged, borderline unplayable. So how about get back to work, apologize that this exploit even exist, because frankly, its a perfect example of incompetent, lazy programing and it showcases the biggest problem of this game... the lack of testing by actual people who know what they are doing. I mean how can you explain bugs like the old NiM Content ones? All they had to do is play through the content ONCE to realize its bugged beyond hell... how can you let something slip trough? But no, instead ban 70 percent of your gamer base, strip them down... insult and humiliate them even more. Can we start talking seriously please? This person gets it. Couldn't have summed it up better. NO, I didn't use the exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) The only thing I can say about this is its HORRIBLE how the community itself is sorting things out for Bioware nowadays when it comes to this game. The community has to figure out that the in-game UI is contributing to FPS drops in-game and turning it off causes massive improvements (despite you not being able to properly play using skills etc), and now the community having to come up with solutions on how to deal with exploiters (mind you not all of them realistic but still). This has completely changed my perspective on this company and how this game is handled. You read on the forums a lot of negativity and individuals questioning whether or not Bioware has the resources to figure out who the exploiters are, or the ability to perform rollbacks, or the ability to find these bugs out themselves (fps issues, raid bugs etc) and to be quite honest I don't completely disagree. I think Bioware needs to invest more resources and manpower into game testing, bug fixes, and customer support (reporting players etc) than just focusing solely on producing "new content" and that's it. As far as the exploiters go I honestly hope that there is some sort of punishment for something like this. I agree that it sets the tone for future exploits in one way or another no matter how you break it down. Think the more realistic idea is creating new gear as I agree with most others that I don't believe Bioware has the tools nor the personnel to identify exploits to punish them confidently otherwise PVP season rewards wouldn't continually be given out to people exploiting certain things there as well. this will happen. people move on, and so do Dev teams. over time you will miss that continuity. what to me is surprising is how little power it seems this group of Dev's have to enact day to day adjustments. as with large organization there can be internal communication problems. this appears to be more and more the case. as more of the old team drifts away, the circle of actual decision makers shrinks. Edited January 8, 2015 by Bruceme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Darth Marr as a romanceable companion for those who behaved properly. He'll die soon at any rate. I'll take that offer he has a nice voice... although who knows what's under that mask... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMulls Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how the game experience of the non-exploiters was affected by this exploit. Asked in two separate threads now, and still only crickets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 SNIp... The game will go on...... SNIP..., Yes it will and cheaters will always be out there but in the context of gaming or sports, when it comes to cheaters and exploiters, it (they)simply cannot be allowed. Doesn't matter if it's checkers or an MMO or a sports game or a video game. You want to use a cheat code and its just you. Go ahead. When it involves a massive online game. I got a problem with it. Cheating is cheating and no amount of first world problems will change that or dilute it. IF you cheated or exploited the game, you should be removed. You knew it was cheating/exploiting going into it. If your a gamer at all you knew it was wrong but did it anyway. BW missing it or not handling it properly doesn't change that fact. Someone willing cheated at the game and I got no problem getting rid of them. On that note though. Do I think BW has the balls to do any banning? Keep some integrity in the game and remove cheaters and exploiters? Not a chance in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Not defending anyone, just saying to keep this in perspective. Same here. Which of course means I "used the exploit" and "fear my punishment". Edited January 8, 2015 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) I'll take that offer he has a nice voice... although who knows what's under that mask... The last one who supposedly took a peek committed suicide afterwards. Let's leave it at that. Edited January 8, 2015 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XiamaraSimi Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) That is a nice idea, but it is not enough. At the very least, all gear and achievements people got due to this exploit need to be removed, and I would think a 1-2 week temp ban is definitely in order. I say this, as well as a perma displayed title that can't be turned off "the Exploiter" ( or any other appropriate title that can be a badge of shame) Edited January 8, 2015 by XiamaraSimi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I just want to mention that after reading all 8 pages of this thread, I still have no clue what the exploit is. No forum rules broken in here, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 You need two things to successfully complete Operations: Gear and skill. The more you have of one, the less you need of the other. Trivializing gear trivializes the skill needed to complete the Ops. Your vendor gear point is irrelevant since vendor gear is optimized terribly. For some classes, 186 Ops gear is better than 198 comm gear. For PuGs, I agree. Gear helps compensate for poorer players, in which case, this means nothing because they'll still be poor players. For the skilled players, it might have taken a few weeks off their gear grind, but it's all gear they'd have gotten anyway. No lasting harm. The Ops gear is terribly optimized too. TERRIBLY! Like...frustratingly freaking bad. There is ONE item (armor/mod/enh) usually that's worth getting in the token gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanbra Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 What I find odd is that when conquest was new and people were farming Battle of Ilum for conquest points, it was declared an exploit, servers went down during that conquest week and a hotfix applied. Every time there has been an exploit there was an emergency maintenance to fix the exploit. This? Went on for three weeks before there was an announcement that it will be fixed next week. I don't understand their logic in this. And to the question as to how many people did it? I think it must be a significant amount because of the way Bioware changed their policy. For three weeks threads on this have been quietly deleted with no comments about it. That's been their policy all along; keep quiet about it to minimize the problem until it was fixed. But this week we get a post that says they're aware of it and that they have the right to take action. My impression was that they were trying to stop how many were doing it. I have no idea how many did it, but it was obviously big enough for them to change their policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpope Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I might be mistaken about this, and I admit this is probably irrelevant, but I am fairly sure I saw a dev comment that indicated that using legacy gear in that way was unintended, but they chose to not act against it...and are discussing what they want to do about it presently. They did clearly state they had no intent to act against folks that were using the gear for that purpose. I can't recall the exact quote, I will try and find it if needed. But I believe that was the gist. Are you sure you aren't mixing it up with the quote about people putting crafted items learned via RE'ing ops gear into orange shells, pulling them out and then learning the schematic from a crafted item? I remember them saying that that scenario was unintended but not an exploit and thus not actionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaDoc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Exploits are not a financial cost. Think about the other issue with a certain NiM boss. Wide spread, well known and went on for ages. What costs did BW incur from that? I agree, over reacting would cause a serious financial cost to them and the game I like. Just fix it move on and learn from it. Maybe better testing before rolling out a major update just before the holidays when most of your developers and producers are out on vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jojomagro Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Man reading these threads is very informative. They are a very effective way to quickly learn which forum posters are massive tards who can't see past their own extreme bias, so I can go forward reading every future post they make with the right frame of mind. Its delightfuly eye opening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruceme Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I say this, as well as a perma displayed title that can't be turned off "the Exploiter" ( or any other appropriate title that can be a badge of shame) The EA Legal team might find this solution inconvenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RokDalor Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) So, I know there is many threads about this already, and I am starting a new one to give my opinion on this whole situation, After I make my post I will not check this thread again, flame me if you will but this is how I feel and we are each entitled to our own opinions. For almost an entire months tickets were submitted by hundreds (if not ) thousands of players about how operation bosses were dropping no loot/ wrong loot/ wrong amount of loot, in most instances being told "Oh sorry, looking into this, nothing we can do" so perhaps people saw this as a way of making up for gear they felt robbed of, was this wrong to do? perhaps what I do know is it was wrong of the dev's to not fix their operations/ customer support not award loot owed to those deserving? Absolutely. Before anyone says "well it was Christmas and they deserved time off" well consider this then, perhaps instead of rushing a release, they should of postponed until after Christmas when their teams would be back at work able to fix any issues that would arise. Failing to predict that Major bugs will come with a Major release is again, a huge failure on their part. Finally, there have been so many issues with the bosses/ operations (I wont even start on the playability of the planets) being so laggy and glitched that many people could not even complete the operations due to no fault of their own, these people perhaps felt that this "exploit" was a way to make up for the poor game play, again, perhaps a poor decision, but when the dev's and Cs team fail to communicate at all, or prove to be no help at all, people will resort to any means they see fit, to get what they feel they are owed for their time and effort. Finally, this issue is no different from the one that happened with nefra, the big difference? the dev's communicated on that one almost instantly and a lot of people never used it for that reason. In the end my opinion on this is simple, the people who used this "exploit" are in the wrong for making a poor decision but that is about it, the real fault is with Bw/Ea for not acting quickly to comment on this issue or fix it, again the holidays are not an excuse as large bugs are expected with expansions/large patches and obviously they should never of released this content when they did if they knew they would have no one on standby to fix issues the arose. I now ask you what if the opposite of this had happened, what if no bosses gave any loot? their team would not of been at work to fix that due to "holidays", and ultimately they would do what? Say sorry? would they offer up free game time, or retroactively award gear to each person? I think not. Perhaps the devs, the in game support, and community pers should be looking at themselves and asking what they could of done to minimize the issue, or fix it, instead of failing to communicate for almost an entire on month on not only this issue, But many others. Cheers. Edited for this: For all the people saying this hurts "end game/ progression raiders the most by giving others an unfair advantage" I can almost guarantee you that most of the Top progression guilds in this game were using this to benefit themselves, due to the numerous issues with latency/ glitches they probably didn't want the hassle of trying to do it legit. So Il say this, if you choose to ban anyone who used this "exploit" make sure you ban everyone from the lowest raider, to the top end progression raiders who stream their raids, everyone regardless of them using this once, 50 times, you cant punish half the people, and say "justice was done" Edited January 8, 2015 by RokDalor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaDoc Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The Cartel Market can be updated at will without the servers coming down. Before going on vacation, someone from Bioware -- presumably the two interns and the cat -- instructed the janitor on how to do it. Duh! I LOL that is funny, but likely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'll tell what there is no excuse for ----> yet another special snowflake thread about the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 0/10 thread -- not needed, should be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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