MaximusRex Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Not quite as imaginary for 7 pieces of armor: 5 items x 4 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 234,000 2 items x 3 slots x 11,700 credits/mod removal = 70,200 7x 42,000 augmentation kit installation = 294,000 7x ~50,000 new augmentation kits = ~350,000 = 948,000 (Even if you craft the kits yourself, you still spend time and resources of about that value. And it's still 600k pure credit sink.) Mod removal can almost double if you want to re-use the current ones on an alt/companion, and not over-write them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 What would be better credit sink then? Remember that it must be something that is required in endgame or otherwise there would only be two credit sinks at endgame (crafting & repairs, for HC raiders only crafting). Or would lowering the rewards be acceptable? Almost anything would be a better credit sink, swapping an outfit is a pretty significant purchase, especially for a mostly cosmetic change. Credit Sinks shouldn't be massive, they should be small but continuous. Other MMOs seem to be able to manage their economies without having a significant credit sink on cosmetic appearances, and do fine just relying on travel costs, repair costs, auction house costs, and crafting costs (materials that can't be farmed). Heck, a lot of games with housing have a housing upkeep credit sink. I would be more interested in seeing mini-games added into the economy as money sinks then keeping mod pulling as one. The Slot machine event, with occasional new items added, Pazaak with an entry fee and a NPC card shop, Swoop and Pod racing with entry fees and items from NPC vendors. These could all be fun credit sinks. They can also continue to add new NPC items for housing, new Macrobinocular and Seeker droid events with collectibles that need NPC sold components, or any other event that requires a mix of gather drops and credits to buy things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Well, the simple solution for those that are concerned about costs is to add an appearance system that is separate from the current system in place. Something that saves an appearance but is unaffected by what you currently have equipped. This was suggested many moons ago by folks back in beta, and in fact one of the longest running threads on the forum had this as it's subject line. It was a good idea then and it is a good idea now IMO. Yeah, it would be the obvious solution - keep the cost for upgrading and swapping modifications, but reduce or eliminate the cost for switching looks. Alas, "simple" probably only in theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudCastle Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I don't really care how it's done. Appearance tab is by far the most obvious choice, but if that's not technically possible, then the other logical suggestion is removing or lowering mod costs. I'll say it again: I don't care how it's done. I can change my looks to my heart's content in other games without paying ridiculous fees. The economy hasn't been ruined in those games. Somehow, they found a way to make it work. I want to be able to do that here. Putting characters in certain looks is a HUGE part of the fun in this game for me. It can revitalize a character that I had started to lose interest in. Some of you may find this crazy, but I bet there are plenty of you out there right now who know exactly what I'm talking about. This is a business problem, really. Players want a certain feature. Other games offer this feature. This game doesn't. Logical conclusion: Until BW finds a way to make this work, they are limiting their profit and losing an opportunity. Find a way to make it happen, BW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) Here are some suggestions I have for sinks that would probably work....but they are likely going to make some folks a bit peeved. The idea is that you have to offer items that folks can actually use and want to purchase, and make them purchasable from vendors AND only temporary. Some ideas..... 1) Crafting boost Buff that add 5 percent to crafting across the board, last for 1 hour. 25k each. 2) Enforcement buff Buff that reduces damage taken from all sources by 25 percent. Can not be used in flashpoints, ops or PVP. Does not persist through death. Lasts for one hour. Level specific, 1-20/21-40/41-60 @ 10k/25k/50k each. 3) Adventure buff Buff that reduces damage taken from all sources by 10 percent. Only works in flashpoints and ops. Does not persist through death. Lasts for one hour. 75k each. 4) Healing bot Bot that will travel with you on your adventures. Will heal you for 2 percent of your maximum health every time you enter combat, every 3 seconds. Does not work in operations or PVP. Does not persist through death. Lasts for 15 minutes. 10k each. 5) Disposable combat droid Droid that will travel with you on your adventures. Will engage in combat when you are attacked with basic attacks. Low DPS and health. Droid matches your level. Can not be controlled. Does not work in flashpoints, ops or PVP. Can be summoned while in combat. Droid will despawn after 15 minutes of non-use. 10k each. 6) Quicktravel ticket Item that allows you to use quicktravel. 1 minute cooldown. Does not affect normal quicktravel. 10k each. 7) Sleep grenade Grenade that will put one NPC to sleep for one minute. Can be used on multiple NPCs. 10 second cooldown. Does not break stealth. Can not be used in flashpoints, ops or PVP. Does not work on special NPCs. 10k each. 8) Confusion grenade Grenade that will confuse an enemy NPC, causing them to attack unfriendly NPCs that are in range. Confusion will only last for 30 seconds. When confusion wears off, NPC will attack the player. Does not work on Champion or special NPCs. 10k each. 9) Stun grenade Grenade that will stun an enemy, interrupting its current action and stunning it for 2 seconds. Does not work on Champions or specials NPCs. Does not work in flashpoints, ops or PVP. 10 second cooldown. 20k each. 10) Speed booster Item that will boost your running speed by 110% for 12 seconds, with a cooldown of 30 seconds. Does not share the cooldown with Rocket Boost. Can not be used in combat, can be used indoors. 10k each. 11) Orbital attack Item that will send a signal, calling in support from orbiting warships, dealing 1224 elemental damage over 9 seconds to all enemies within 8 meters of the targeted area. Standard and weak enemies are additionally knocked down by the blasts. Only usable outside of combat. Does not work in flashpoints, ops or PVP. Cooldown of 45 seconds, range of 30m. Will break stealth. Movement will cancel the strike. 10k each. Just some examples. The idea is to offer consumable boost, mostly used when questing, that would desirable to the playerbase. Most would not work in end game content. Would be a HUGE credit sink IMO. Edited January 4, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazardousMatt Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I can change my looks to my heart's content in other games without paying ridiculous fees. The economy hasn't been ruined in those games. Somehow, they found a way to make it work. I want to be able to do that here. Putting characters in certain looks is a HUGE part of the fun in this game for me. It can revitalize a character that I had started to lose interest in. Some of you may find this crazy, but I bet there are plenty of you out there right now who know exactly what I'm talking about. Well said, and I agree. I've even found myself trying out companions I had previously ignored because I had an idea for and then assembled a new look for that companion. For some of us, character appearance is a huge deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 (edited) For some of us, character appearance is a huge deal. It is for me personally. But I don't see that as justification to tinker with the knobs on the economy to make it free. Why? Because it's well understood, and baked in to the economy. So early on, I realized that to do what I want, I need to plan and invest accordingly. Credits has never been in issue in this game for me, and frankly probably for most people. But... like very MMO.. you need a plan and work the plan to have all the resources you need to do what you want to do. Credits are simply a resource... no different then if they made us go out and gather some special mats or tokens to trade for pulling mods rather then paying credits. I also do not agree with the welfare initiative of "I want to look however I like in game, for free". MMOs are about planning for what you want and achieving it. Character appearance is one facet of this in MMOs. And... even in LoTRO... doing so is not free... there are costs associated with obtaining the exact appearance you like. It's just that they bake in the costs into the LoTRO economy in a different manner. If people want to suggest/request some downward pressure on removal fees, I support that. But the "get rid of it" crowd.. I do not support. For example: they deliberately bent the skill and damage curves with the release of 3.0 to prevent damage-inflation in the game. So.. by correspondence, it would be reasonable to ask for similar treatment on mod removal costs so that they are essentially neutral cost at level cap between 2.x and 3.0. I don't agree with this trend to create welfare mechanisms inside MMOs. It always ends badly. TL;DR mods and customized appearance are integral to the game play for many of us. And changing them, like so many things in an MMO, requires resources. Resources, no matter what they may be... require effort to gather inside an MMO. Personally, I prefer a known resource in high abundance, so that I can do what I want to do when I want to do it. Credits fits the methodology nicely here. Edited January 4, 2015 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Nah... it doesn't need to be eliminated or free. As others have said, there are valid reasons for it. However, I do think it needs to be tweaked a bit. I'm cool with and appearance tab and you can move the the sink in there. I'm not suggesting anything crazy, but you know a cred sink cost to add items to the appearance tab. But once it is in there, no more swap charges etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 My preferred method would be to leave the costs alone, but add an appearance tab. Naturally the tab could have use costs as well, but I would imagine they would not be significant. This way folks that want to focus on appearance do not need to keep removing mods to have it, those that move around mods pay for it like they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 My preferred method would be to leave the costs alone, but add an appearance tab. Naturally the tab could have use costs as well, but I would imagine they would not be significant. This way folks that want to focus on appearance do not need to keep removing mods to have it, those that move around mods pay for it like they should. I agree with this 100%. If they sold us appearance tab windows, so we can keep a stable of ensembles, they could still charge the current fee for changing out mods and augments etc. I'd be totally fine with that. The devs need to get their butts into LOTR and rip off their wardrobe stuff ASAP. And like on LOTR, I'd be willing to pay for the windows...subs could get a couple free and pay for extras. But until such time as they wise up and get us appearance tabs, I'll be rocking the same outfits for months or a year, maybe more. Only the uber main main toons of my 22 get new clothes. If they did this, I'd be happy to get more stuff for the others to wear too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nGAGE Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I don't think removing the cost is good. It would make it too easy to get rich. People do need something to work for and best gear should not be easy to come by. It must remain part of the economy IMO. (no matter how much I wish I could save up some more money myself) At least it puts you into a situation where you have to pick your priorities. That said, I do think it's a bit unrealistic to charge 13k per item extraction and only being able to sell the entire piece of gear for 15k with still all 3 items in the gear. The value of the actual gear has to be increased when vendor-ing them by probably a bit less than 3 fold for 3 item pieces, and slightly less than double on 2 item pieces, or so. If the total gear value is increased, at least there's a fair money recovery on items we got and don't need, compared to the swapping cost of same type of items. I mean, c'mon.... there are certain lvl 50 chest pieces that vendor for 45 to 70k. Why shouldn't higher level gear vendor for more than it is now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criosdh Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 LOTRO Easy fix, DEVS, start up a char on lotro, take a look at that fantastic cosmetic system...copy it. The end. This. There is simply no reason for this game not to have a cosmetic outfits system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleurdelis Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 /signed The cost for removing mods should be 0 for subscribers. Same for dyes. Dyes should be REMOVABLE and should cost 0 credits to remove them. I agree, however if not 0 cost for subs at least a substantial discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Appearance tab pls. The costs made some sense with the old model; they're simply stupid now. Edited January 5, 2015 by Joesixxpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSStember Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 As others here have pointed out, this is one area LOTRO got right and I'd love to see a similar setup here where you can have one (or more) character appearance tabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Keep the credit costs. Make all gear legacy bound. Having them Bound to character is pointless now a days and just makes character customization more complicated that it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 My preferred method would be to leave the costs alone, but add an appearance tab. Naturally the tab could have use costs as well, but I would imagine they would not be significant. This way folks that want to focus on appearance do not need to keep removing mods to have it, those that move around mods pay for it like they should. Basically this is the same as making pulling mods free. The mod prices should be reduced, not free. Whether lotr does it or not, is irrelevant. This is not lotr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joesixxpack Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Whether lotr does it or not, is irrelevant. This is not lotr... Lrn2 best practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anzel Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The cost to remove mods from armor should be ZERO for subscribers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Basically this is the same as making pulling mods free. The mod prices should be reduced, not free. Whether lotr does it or not, is irrelevant. This is not lotr... I dont agree with the notion they are the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Whether lotr does it or not, is irrelevant. This is not lotr...Yeah, I'd hate for them to take something amazing like the appearance tab of lotro and implement it here...God knows we don't want cool stuff...and remove the riding mounts too...those remind me of lotro as well...and swords...and capes...and anything cool like quests or NPCs...lotro had NPCs and I hated them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightSaberAddiCt Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yeah, I'd hate for them to take something amazing like the appearance tab of lotro and implement it here...God knows we don't want cool stuff...and remove the riding mounts too...those remind me of lotro as well...and swords...and capes...and anything cool like quests or NPCs...lotro had NPCs and I hated them!!! That is too much of a straw man argument that I actually cannot even bring myself to really bother to counter it. No points are assigned, and furthermore, the readers should feel dumber reading it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectofhatred Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 ./agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
objectofhatred Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 LOTRO Easy fix, DEVS, start up a char on lotro, take a look at that fantastic cosmetic system...copy it. The end. This a million times, its the one thing LOTRO got right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorwen Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Mod cost doesn't fix the issue for which it was created. Just like high crafting costs. Those that don't take advantage of the system totally avoid it and those that do are thus punished for it. Thus if you are a small guild with people that like to craft, do personal strongholds, and care about their characters appearance, well your royally bent over. And everyone else has 10 times the amount of money you have and comes on the forum saying how it isn't a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts