Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

[mmmbuddah]

I agree Sorcs are retarded and I do not think Sages have similar abilities even thou they are supposed to be mirrors. Healing and CC in 'general' is very broken in PvP. Was before the recent update even more so now. Go into any WZ and Imps are running either Sorc or Sin with a few random other classes to fill out a group. I have a Sorc , wanted to see myself if it was as bad as I thought....and it is, I do insane amounts of dps even at a low level.

Sorc and sages were easy mode BEFORE 3.0, now they are just pitifully easy mode.

[Benets]

Do you really buy "metrics"?

 

They claim that, but it they really use it this game shouldnt even get where it is now. Invencible healers, needing 3 to 4 people to kill a single healer.

 

PvP is gone, a wz with a single healer is already imbalanced, with 2 you need a huge effor to kill a single person with 3 its impossible, bioware do not care at all, they only want money, so they make cartel garbate to sell.

 

It's tottaly lazy. THis expation hit 3 weeks and not a single balance change was made. And it'll need like 8 months only to admit, and then more some months to change.

 

That's why i call them BioCrap

Edited December 21, 2014 by Benets

[bzotta]

He also thinks that range is a thing in this game... you know... because gap closing as a melee is super hard o.O.

 

It's funny, most people that I know who complain about sages/sorcs don't really have an issue dealing with one or two, once you talk to them you find out that they are actually complaining about stacked sages/sorcs... because class stacking in this game is only effective when it's sage/sorcs

 

haha wow.... lets talk about how many gap closers/30 meter range abilities a melee has? For example, a warrior (leap, saber throw, endure pain(kinda)). Sorcs not only have "lets call them gap extenders" such as roots, stuns, and force speed, but they have almost every damage dealing attack at a 30 meter range. It is soooooooo much easier for a ranges class to spam at 30 meters than it is for a melee to keep the gap close. Not to mention, sorcs have heals, an immunity bubble, and another bubble that absorbs damage., A highly skilled sorc vs a highly skilled melee will win every time. There is absolutely no person on earth who can argue with that.

[swredrage]

haha wow.... lets talk about how many gap closers/30 meter range abilities a melee has? For example, a warrior (leap, saber throw, endure pain(kinda)). Sorcs not only have "lets call them gap extenders" such as roots, stuns, and force speed, but they have almost every damage dealing attack at a 30 meter range. It is soooooooo much easier for a ranges class to spam at 30 meters than it is for a melee to keep the gap close. Not to mention, sorcs have heals, an immunity bubble, and another bubble that absorbs damage., A highly skilled sorc vs a highly skilled melee will win every time. There is absolutely no person on earth who can argue with that.

 

small bubble is about one hit maybe a bit more or less depending with a 20 second debuff. burst shield which is almost worth less now.. in the rare time it does stun i am greatful though.

got two heals one that heals up about one big hit the other is a MINOR dot deterant.

The other heal dps sorc has heals about half of big hit, 1.5 cast time and a force eater... you'll only see this cast really if someone is trying to get their healing medal or in a desperate move to try to save a ranked match. once in a blue moon it works.

Immunity bubble is bad. Sorcs get 10 second of no damage assuming their not netted and a little bit of healing if they got the spec point. every 3 minutes during those 10 seconds they can do nothing accept tab out and google "how to kill an assassin" Unlike other classes their defensive CD is defensive only.

[wadecounty]

http://assets.enjin.com/wall_embed_images/1418815053_Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-12-14-2014-19-04-38.jpg

 

This is 3k from someone I know... who doesn't farm dps... now put someone who really likes to farm on a jugg and see what happens.

 

Keep in mind I'm not on board with the "nerf everything train!", but to defend my main for a second here...

 

Looking at that scoreboard, Averth was in with a Core premade with a tank and healer present, and the Imp team looks like mostly a pug with excess healers, in other words the perfect situation to farm damage at mid especially with dot spread. I had a similar situation in a Novare on my Jugg shortly after I hit 60, still with level 55 PvP gear, and put up crazy numbers.

 

Not that he wasn't doing his job, but dot spread is still a ton of fluff regardless. Its not like he was massacring the other team, the final score was still relatively close, and if the Imp team had a couple good DPS'ers they probably could have won.

 

My stance is pretty much the same as yours regardless, the only REALLY overtuned classes are AP PT and Hatred Sins, and in both cases its mostly utility reasons (although Hatred really shouldn't get dot spread from Death Field either imo).

[sanchito]

haha wow.... lets talk about how many gap closers/30 meter range abilities a melee has? For example, a warrior (leap, saber throw, endure pain(kinda)). Sorcs not only have "lets call them gap extenders" such as roots, stuns, and force speed, but they have almost every damage dealing attack at a 30 meter range. It is soooooooo much easier for a ranges class to spam at 30 meters than it is for a melee to keep the gap close. Not to mention, sorcs have heals, an immunity bubble, and another bubble that absorbs damage., A highly skilled sorc vs a highly skilled melee will win every time. There is absolutely no person on earth who can argue with that.

 

As lightning, i always lose against good PTs and sins unless i have barrier, and if i do have barrier i can only win because they switch to someone else during my barrier and i can get in a few big hits before they are back on me. I haven't done any duels since 3.0 but i wouldn't bet on the sorc in these match ups.

 

I do believe that these 3 classes are stronger then the rest currently.

[AngusFTW]

Keep in mind I'm not on board with the "nerf everything train!", but to defend my main for a second here...

 

Looking at that scoreboard, Averth was in with a Core premade with a tank and healer present, and the Imp team looks like mostly a pug with excess healers, in other words the perfect situation to farm damage at mid especially with dot spread. I had a similar situation in a Novare on my Jugg shortly after I hit 60, still with level 55 PvP gear, and put up crazy numbers.

 

Not that he wasn't doing his job, but dot spread is still a ton of fluff regardless. Its not like he was massacring the other team, the final score was still relatively close, and if the Imp team had a couple good DPS'ers they probably could have won.

 

My stance is pretty much the same as yours regardless, the only REALLY overtuned classes are AP PT and Hatred Sins, and in both cases its mostly utility reasons (although Hatred really shouldn't get dot spread from Death Field either imo).

jug as veng will do those high numbers in the right situations because of the new smash which does 7-8k aoe on a guy without aoe reduction (when it crits).. tbh i don't think thats particularly overpowered , those hits really arent that big the current state of the game but it will inflate numbers where theres a group of sorc healers circle jerking each other. The spec overall doesn't have the highest dmg or burst though it just has insane survivability and that smash will pad things when people stack and theres lots of healing going on. It does spread dots but vigilance/veng dots arent something to be concerned about tbh

 

If you consider it hits for about the same as a death field/force in balance on hatred/serenity and they have alot stonger dots/dmg overall it really isn't so ridiculous.

 

Jugs/Guardians have never really had amazing dmg in recent patches its always been the cds and survivability that have been ridiculous.

Edited December 22, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Archaar]

I have seen Mara's do 1.5mil+ damage. I saw a balance shadow do 1.7mil+ damage. Yes sorcs/sage's can do 1mil + damage, but it's splash damage, especially from balance.

 

Any GOOD player, who know's how and WHEN to use his interrupt(s)/knockbacks and any other CC available can wipe the floor with a sorc/sage. Watch a good jugg/guardian (or PT/VG) player absolutely rip a sorc/sage to pieces then come back and say they are OP.

 

Think about how to COUNTER something instead of calling it OP.

[alexsamma]

haha wow.... lets talk about how many gap closers/30 meter range abilities a melee has? For example, a warrior (leap, saber throw, endure pain(kinda)). Sorcs not only have "lets call them gap extenders" such as roots, stuns, and force speed, but they have almost every damage dealing attack at a 30 meter range. It is soooooooo much easier for a ranges class to spam at 30 meters than it is for a melee to keep the gap close. Not to mention, sorcs have heals, an immunity bubble, and another bubble that absorbs damage., A highly skilled sorc vs a highly skilled melee will win every time. There is absolutely no person on earth who can argue with that.

 

Concealment, deception, and vengeance would like to have a word with you.

[Archaar]

haha wow.... lets talk about how many gap closers/30 meter range abilities a melee has? For example, a warrior (leap, saber throw, endure pain(kinda)). Sorcs not only have "lets call them gap extenders" such as roots, stuns, and force speed, but they have almost every damage dealing attack at a 30 meter range. It is soooooooo much easier for a ranges class to spam at 30 meters than it is for a melee to keep the gap close. Not to mention, sorcs have heals, an immunity bubble, and another bubble that absorbs damage., A highly skilled sorc vs a highly skilled melee will win every time. There is absolutely no person on earth who can argue with that.

 

You really have no idea do you? The immunity bubble only prolongs death against anyone who isn't brain damaged. I just wait with a stun ready because they will either try to knockback to disengage or more than likely force speed away. Either way, I can still stun them and kill them. The normal bubble takes 1-2 hits to pop. Any melee who knows how to use his slows, CC and INTERRUPTS (important!!) can beat a sorc/sage and make it look easy. Especially Juggs/Guardians and AP PT's/VGs.

 

The only people who cry about sorcs and their bubbles are bad players who don't know their own class and cannot be bothered to LEARN how to counter other classes.

[alexsamma]

Keep in mind I'm not on board with the "nerf everything train!", but to defend my main for a second here...

 

Looking at that scoreboard, Averth was in with a Core premade with a tank and healer present, and the Imp team looks like mostly a pug with excess healers, in other words the perfect situation to farm damage at mid especially with dot spread. I had a similar situation in a Novare on my Jugg shortly after I hit 60, still with level 55 PvP gear, and put up crazy numbers.

 

Not that he wasn't doing his job, but dot spread is still a ton of fluff regardless. Its not like he was massacring the other team, the final score was still relatively close, and if the Imp team had a couple good DPS'ers they probably could have won.

 

My stance is pretty much the same as yours regardless, the only REALLY overtuned classes are AP PT and Hatred Sins, and in both cases its mostly utility reasons (although Hatred really shouldn't get dot spread from Death Field either imo).

 

I don't think Juggs are OP, I just wanted to point out that other classes are capable of putting up the same numbers as sorcs are given the right situation; besides, you know that Jugg/Guardian is one of my main classes o.O

Edited December 22, 2014 by alexsamma

[Shikyo]

This entire thread is adorable and completely worth the read!

 

Thank you to everyone that has contributed to it!

[Jnaathra]

There are some rather obvious balance issues right now. Anyone that has touched ranked queues already knows this. The issues are not relegated to any one class and I expect there to be changes and adjustments during the preseason. Some of the stuff I see going down in ranked atm, is just pure cheese. Some classes have to utilize nearly every single skill while others can spam just a few moves and be super effective.

[Fellow-Canadian]

I don't think Juggs are OP, I just wanted to point out that other classes are capable of putting up the same numbers as sorcs are given the right situation; besides, you know that Jugg/Guardian is one of my main classes o.O

 

Not true - not every class can pull off the same numbers as a sorc. It's not even remotely close for some classes.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Fellow-Canadian

[DarthVengeant]

Bioware you need to address some class balance issues badly. Sorcs are just flat out absurd right now. Surely you can see the game metrics and know how stupidly overpowered sorcs are right now. I've consistently seen match after match of sorcs doing 1.2+mill damage and 350+k healing. Bubbles need a cool down and healing needs to be needed. No other class is capable of this. Also their ability that makes them immune to everything and can't be interrupted. One on one they are almost unkillable.

 

Seriously, it's just dumb at this point.

 

It's about time Sorc/Sages got some love.

 

MAYBE YOU SHOULD TRY SORC IN PVE AND SEE WHY THE CHANGES WERE MADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You might understand then.

 

PVP is only a smaller % of the game pal. ALOT of people have HAD ENOUGH you you PVP complainers ruining classes because of how they preform in PVP. Most every single class that was ruined or nerfed was beucause of people like you. Play some PVE or go to a PVP server and roll your own Sorc and **** already.

 

Or hear is a bright idea for you: Maybe you should mark the Sage/Sorc and get your team to focus them instead. Wow, what a concept.

 

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

Edited December 23, 2014 by DarthVengeant

[alexsamma]

Not true - not every class can pull off the same numbers as a sorc. It's not even remotely close for some classes.

 

No one said every other class, single target burst specs should not be able to pull the same kind of dps that an aoe or dot spec can pull simply because (if played correctly) your targets should die too fast to hit high damage/dps numbers.

 

That being said, I've personally pulled 2k+ on multiple single target specs, and there are many many screenshots floating around of combat sentinels, concealment ops, and arsenal mercs pulling over 2k (and in some rather retarded games hitting 2.5~2.8k).

Edited December 23, 2014 by alexsamma

[KrackShotz]

I have well over thousand games in ranked both solo and team, after getting full reaver on my assassin (both dps and tank spec), pt and op (both heal and dps spec) I think the class alignment is just about right. Assassins are actually coming down and dps classes are fairly aligned with each other. I don't think there needs to be any nerfs. Just gear up, it's playing out better than you think. While sorcs still top the dps charts, they are manageable. Ap Pt are only really bothersome in 8v8 but in ranked once they have blown their initial burst their dmg doesn't exist until they can cycle again and most classes can avoid most of the initial burst anyway.

[bromotion]

So let me preface this post by saying that I never play sorc in PvP and occasionally play madness (now Hatred) assassin. My main toon for PvP is a merc healer, which I think remains fairly well balanced in PvP, although like any class it could probably use a few tweaks. Because I have never played the sorc, all of my opinions are based on healing myself through damage from sorcs and assassins. After playing a considerable amount of post 3.0 WZs, I both agree and disagree that sorcs are OP in PvP. I know, this is where you say - how is that possible?

 

As many people have said, a sorc on their own is not very OP, and assassins defninitely not. As a merc healer, I can defend an objective alone against a single assassin easily (the increase to merc/commando burst heals is a good counter for the assassin's burst damage). Sorcs are more challenging, due to the off heals and improved damage mitigation from bubble, but I can still defend against them (the utility that makes your cleanse reduce periodic damage by 30% is a big help).

 

The problem IMO with sorcs is the spreading of DoTs through their AoE, specifically in objective game modes. I admit I haven't done many ranked WZs since 3.0 - but in unranked, objective format game modes, the spreading of DoTs is a big issue. The AoE they can use to spread the DoTs is HUGE which means a team full of sorcs can load up their dots and then spread them to all the players trying to defend or attack a node.

 

If they can spread their DoTs to 4 or more people, the amount of periodic damage can easily overwhelm me as a healer. If I pick one target, maybe two and focus heal them I can keep them alive, but it is just impossible to keep up with the DoT effects on your entire team from a team of sorcs. The only way to counter this is to spread out yourselves, which makes playing near the objective (IMO an essential element of winning these modes) extremely difficult.

 

The way I see it, if the game is truly balanced then teams should naturally end up being more diverse, due to each class bringing its own advantages and disadvantages to the match. The fact that a team 75% full of sorcs is a viable option is proof enough to me that changes need to be made. People will say that this will break PvE, but there are many things Bioware could do to fix PvP without breaking PvE. For example, put a limit on the amount of sorc dots that can be up on one player (not NPC), limit the amount of players they can spread to, or maybe just make them cleansable (cleanses have an increased CD anways).

 

Sorry for the wall of text, I just wanted to try to be as unbiased as possible. To sum it up, I don't think sorcs should be nerf'd completely, just tweaked to prevent large groups of sorcs from dumping a ton of DoTs on large groups in very little time.

Edited December 23, 2014 by bromotion

[KrackShotz]

^

 

Again I think the problem is people are making judgement calls about their class they haven't fully geared up yet. I don't play sorc I don't even have a sorc leveled up (I hate the ranged mechanics for pvp) but they are not op when going up against other fully geared people.

 

So this leads to more people just just quitting the classes they want to play and going with sorc because they can still do well not being geared. Again, I have said time and time again the gearing situation is too strict for pvp. It takes far too long for the avg player doing reg wz to fully gear up to reaver.

 

Honestly what needs a nerf is the cost on ranked gear. Lets face it, the avg player is only ever going to do pvp casually. It takes 50 ranked wins on avg just to get your mh and oh, now some players never do ranked and gear thru reg wz. It can take all month to get your mh and oh and sometimes people don't even do that. How many times have you seen people show in solo ranked when the season starts with just their tier 2 mh and everything else is tier 1?

 

BIOWARE NERF THE COST OF RANKED GEAR.

Edited December 23, 2014 by KrackShotz

[DarthOvertone]

PVP is only a smaller % of the game pal. ALOT of people have HAD ENOUGH you you PVP complainers ruining classes because of how they preform in PVP. Most every single class that was ruined or nerfed was beucause of people like you. Play some PVE or go to a PVP server and roll your own Sorc and **** already.

 

Never go

...

[Zadtro]

 

So this leads to more people just just quitting the classes they want to play and going with sorc because they can still do well not being geared. Again, I have said time and time again the gearing situation is too strict for pvp. It takes far too long for the avg player doing reg wz to fully gear up to reaver.

 

BIOWARE NERF THE COST OF RANKED GEAR.

 

Yes it does take some farming to get top lvl pvp gear, full exhumed gear isn't bad but until we have full reavers running around we can't make these calls. I do agree that it is a bit of a farm but so is pve gear, wouldn't be worth farming if everyone could have it.

 

New lvl cap is always the slowest because everyone doesn't have maxed out comms waiting with a full set of pvp gear to trade in, yolo is the best way to farm straight ranked comms it is just no fun because death matches are kinda boring.

[MarcoMontana]

Sorcerers are most definitely broken its ridiculous...

[MarcoMontana]

Yes it does take some farming to get top lvl pvp gear, full exhumed gear isn't bad but until we have full reavers running around we can't make these calls. I do agree that it is a bit of a farm but so is pve gear, wouldn't be worth farming if everyone could have it.

 

New lvl cap is always the slowest because everyone doesn't have maxed out comms waiting with a full set of pvp gear to trade in, yolo is the best way to farm straight ranked comms it is just no fun because death matches are kinda boring.

 

Disagree, if everyone ran around naked Sorcerers would still be ridiculously overtuned! Sin too!

[Zadtro]

Disagree, if everyone ran around naked Sorcerers would still be ridiculously overtuned! Sin too!

 

Probably xD

 

The abilities and utilities are a bit ridiculous. If you just read what you can do it is a bit like ***??!!

[mmmbuddah]

Lol at all the sorcerer players saying they aren't OP. I have a sage, and I don't play with him often, and admit I am not super good with him, and with that, going from Commando to sage is like going from lifting 220 lbs to 5 lbs. Far too damned easy .