Sorcs are BROKEN!!!

[sanchito]

Is not just the damage that Sorc/Sages do, im not even talking about all the healing that they do as a DPS. Is the survival the real problem. We can deal with the damage but when you actually need to kill 2 times a sorc/sage in the same fight, something is not working.

 

This need to be fixed before Season 4 or the ranked pvp will be doomed, easy like that.

 

i don't thnk sorcs will be an issue in ranked, both PTs and sins can deal with sorcs

[PBoba]

i don't thnk sorcs will be an issue in ranked, both PTs and sins can deal with sorcs

 

PTs will be first ones on the floor, but sins, yeah.

[alexsamma]

Is not just the damage that Sorc/Sages do, im not even talking about all the healing that they do as a DPS. Is the survival the real problem. We can deal with the damage but when you actually need to kill 2 times a sorc/sage in the same fight, something is not working.

 

This need to be fixed before Season 4 or the ranked pvp will be doomed, easy like that.

 

But you don't have an issue with having to kill a jugg three times? (and juggs can pull the same kind of numbers that sorcs pull).

[pyrietboletje]

Healing sorc's are not OP at all.

I always did +350 healing even before the lv60cap..

On the another side: DPS sorc's are quite powerfull yes. But not broken just all

 

Welcome to 3.0

[Ursus-SUON]

http://i.imgur.com/1JO7ZTy.jpg

 

A typical arena comp on PoT5

 

Even as OP as Sins are, I feel like Sorcs benefit more from stacking their own class in arenas.

 

I'm curious as to what comp could beat 4 sorcs with their unlimited rooting/kiting ability and off heals.

 

quoted for more visibility. this some-what highlights the issue. no other 4 same class comps can compare. Not that everyone ranked match is like this, but it does show their absurd strengths.

[Chrisweaver]

quoted for more visibility. this some-what highlights the issue. no other 4 same class comps can compare. Not that everyone ranked match is like this, but it does show their absurd strengths.

 

I faced 4 sages with 1 pt, 1 jug, 2 sorcs in a solo ranked today and won. Of course when facing any 4 of the same class you will have trouble facing the comp. the trick to defeating sorcs is focus fire and cc.. When the sorc stuns himself switch to the next target and eat at their health. Always make sure to carry a grenade for when the force barrier ends so you can negate the added shield+ uninterruptible buff. After that it is possible to make the specs scatter and be picked off 1v1.

 

A good pt can take a sorc down to 50% health in a couple globals by himself with a good pull. By timing this with other burst specs you can destroy a sorc so quick he won't realize he should have used his barrier earlier.

 

IMO specs don't outclass Pts,Jugs, and assassins, and I see plenty of all of these classes in the ranked scene. At least enough to counter the sorcs. Marauders can be competitive if they are skilled

 

I think the main point of this thread for any dev reading should be this:

 

Nerf Op/scoundrel!

Edited December 18, 2014 by Chrisweaver

[BlairSparks]

I agree for the most part that most of the Sith toons are just overpowering when fighting in a groups. Or in the WarZones. The Emp classes do have better perks, however, I do have a Guardian and I have beaten many Sorcs on a one on one fight in the Environment. I just change my tactics. I wait till the Sorc activates it shield and I don't attack, I just heal myself. I patiently wait till the shield starts to dissipates while my companion heals me. In the meantime I use that time to kill the Sorc's companions as quickly as possible. When the Sorc comes out of its protection mode, I am ready with a hilt strike, which allows for the full effect of the Master strike then a push, then saber throw, guardian leap, shield and your ready for a bunch of combo's again. Sorcs don't last long. But you are right they are strong in team play and it sucks. I just hope my suggestion works for you. But I do feel your frustration and I get so mad at warzone. I hope my suggestions helps you in some way and good luck I hope to see you out there. Thanks

[AdrianDmitruk]

I faced 4 sages with 1 pt, 1 jug, 2 sorcs in a solo ranked today and won. Of course when facing any 4 of the same class you will have trouble facing the comp. the trick to defeating sorcs is focus fire and cc.. When the sorc stuns himself switch to the next target and eat at their health. Always make sure to carry a grenade for when the force barrier ends so you can negate the added shield+ uninterruptible buff. After that it is possible to make the specs scatter and be picked off 1v1.

 

A good pt can take a sorc down to 50% health in a couple globals by himself with a good pull. By timing this with other burst specs you can destroy a sorc so quick he won't realize he should have used his barrier earlier.

 

IMO specs don't outclass Pts,Jugs, and assassins, and I see plenty of all of these classes in the ranked scene. At least enough to counter the sorcs. Marauders can be competitive if they are skilled

 

I think the main point of this thread for any dev reading should be this:

 

Nerf Op/scoundrel!

 

Actually, speaking as sorc healer here, I take bubblestun and the 30% DR while stunned utilities. Those two utilities in combination (I try to ALWAYS keep myself bubbled) are excellent as an anti-PT defense.

 

Pulling me and stunning me at the start of an arena is just going to result in my little bubble popped, maybe about 20% of my health gone, with you bubblestunned (and any melee who joined you in a "sorc marked, I pull, you gank" instagib attempt likewise bubblestunned), and me waiting out said stun while you clutch your eyeballs, blinded by the bubble pop. At the end, I sprint away with a whitebar, unless you used carbonize--but if you did I will come out of my stun earlier than you will come out of my bubblestun and I'll be able to sprint further back towards my team, all the while using my newfound instaheals and laughing all the way (roaming mend is awesome). The net result is that a team who counts on a PT to force me to pop my cooldowns early will be left empty-handed as I will still have them available for later.

 

If you want to pull-n-gank me, it's far better for you to wait and try to catch me off-guard when my little bubble has popped elsewhere but I still have the deionized debuff. But that's probably what you meant by a "good pull."

 

I just want the PTs out there to know that sorcs can set up their utilities to counter your pulls+stuns (I find bubblestun+fadeout+shapeless spirit to be quite the unholy trinity myself). DR while stunned also helps for taking some of the edge off dat burst--if I'm stunned the burst will be shaved off a bit; if I'm not stunned I'm h2f. The times a PT pops my bubble 2 seconds before deionized ends, I'm trying to get around LOS, the PT yanks me back just as Deionized expires, I rebubble midair, the PT gets the back to back bubblestun, and I sprint away are just exquisite. Some skill may be required to make me pay for healing to full.

 

(Granted if my teammates are so worthless that I'm effectively 1v4ing the arena, I can only prolong the match so long by keeping myself up as long as possible, but I'm still going to make you pay for trying to kill me as much as I possibly can, that's just the way I roll.)

Edited December 18, 2014 by AdrianDmitruk

[alexsamma]

Actually, speaking as sorc healer here, I take bubblestun and the 30% DR while stunned utilities. Those two utilities in combination (I try to ALWAYS keep myself bubbled) are excellent as an anti-PT defense.

 

Pulling me and stunning me at the start of an arena is just going to result in my little bubble popped, maybe about 20% of my health gone, with you bubblestunned (and any melee who joined you in a "sorc marked, I pull, you gank" instagib attempt likewise bubblestunned), and me waiting out said stun while you clutch your eyeballs, blinded by the bubble pop. At the end, I sprint away with a whitebar, unless you used carbonize--but if you did I will come out of my stun earlier than you will come out of my bubblestun and I'll be able to sprint further back towards my team, all the while using my newfound instaheals and laughing all the way (roaming mend is awesome). The net result is that a team who counts on a PT to force me to pop my cooldowns early will be left empty-handed as I will still have them available for later.

 

If you want to pull-n-gank me, it's far better for you to wait and try to catch me off-guard when my little bubble has popped elsewhere but I still have the deionized debuff. But that's probably what you meant by a "good pull."

 

I just want the PTs out there to know that sorcs can set up their utilities to counter your pulls+stuns (I find bubblestun+fadeout+shapeless spirit to be quite the unholy trinity myself). DR while stunned also helps for taking some of the edge off dat burst--if I'm stunned the burst will be shaved off a bit; if I'm not stunned I'm h2f. The times a PT pops my bubble 2 seconds before deionized ends, I'm trying to get around LOS, the PT yanks me back just as Deionized expires, I rebubble midair, the PT gets the back to back bubblestun, and I sprint away are just exquisite. Some skill may be required to make me pay for healing to full.

 

(Granted if my teammates are so worthless that I'm effectively 1v4ing the arena, I can only prolong the match so long by keeping myself up as long as possible, but I'm still going to make you pay for trying to kill me as much as I possibly can, that's just the way I roll.)

 

This works really well as a healer, not so much as a dps.

 

Also, the melee are complete idiots if they stand there and let your bubble stun them (unless your teammates are dpsing them, in which case that bubble mezz won't help you), good dps wait for the bubble pop (including the pt who has zero reason to be in melee range...) and cc again as you start to sprint away; 30% damage reduction while stunned is nice, but it won't save you from semi-decent opponents who know how to counter your setup.

 

I get the average player is just that, average, but there is a very strong misconception that everyone in solo queue is a complete idiot and won't know how to counter these utilities.

[AdrianDmitruk]

This works really well as a healer, not so much as a dps.

 

Also, the melee are complete idiots if they stand there and let your bubble stun them (unless your teammates are dpsing them, in which case that bubble mezz won't help you), good dps wait for the bubble pop (including the pt who has zero reason to be in melee range...) and cc again as you start to sprint away; 30% damage reduction while stunned is nice, but it won't save you from semi-decent opponents who know how to counter your setup.

 

I get the average player is just that, average, but there is a very strong misconception that everyone in solo queue is a complete idiot and won't know how to counter these utilities.

 

By the time I sprint away I'll be whitebarred (unless the PT is smart and uses carbonize--but that stun is a full GCD shorter and even if he's smart and strafes away while pulling me, it makes that stun that much easier to eat). Many aren't that smart, but tbh the utilities I take are meant to counter the kind of mindless pull-n-gank crap that made full corruption sorc arena healing so disgusting pre 3.0. For that, my setup is extremely effective. It can be counterplayed but it at least gives me a chance to fight back instead of getting mindlessly stunned and globaled.

 

There were a couple of powertechs on my server who know of what you speak and could make my life a living hell--but they left the game when Bioware dumped 8v8 ranked.

[Ycoga]

http://i.imgur.com/1JO7ZTy.jpg

 

A typical arena comp on PoT5

 

Even as OP as Sins are, I feel like Sorcs benefit more from stacking their own class in arenas.

 

I'm curious as to what comp could beat 4 sorcs with their unlimited rooting/kiting ability and off heals.

 

The other day we beat a 4 sorc team. I was the sentinel, spent my time perma-rooted, but our scound healer, vanguard and slinger killed them all.

[Ycoga]

A new xpac comes out, abilities and stats are raised and some of you are surprised to see dmg/healing/crits increase?

 

Sorcs/sages aren't hard to handle if you know how to play your class and if you're under geared then you need to expect to get manhandled.

 

I've mained a sage since launch and the only spec that makes me groan when I see it coming after me is the assassin. There's no excuse for a sin that claims sages are hard to take down.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Regarding the "Sorcs are broken" thing : There might be a few serious bugs, too : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=784248

Which makes the Sage class being inferior than the Sorc class, due to bugs being there ONLY for Sages,

and NOT for Sorcs - DESPITE both being mirror classes ...

Edited December 18, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[JFoxstride]

Wow

Is TK sage uninterruptable too, or does that "bug" only works for its lightning counterpart?

[Glower]

Nerf Sorcs at least in survivability... With all these uninterpretable and powerful skills this is just not fair, for example, vs mercs or snipers.

[thebutthat]

Where's the OP Powertech thread. They kill me.

[DarthOvertone]

But you don't have an issue with having to kill a jugg three times? (and juggs can pull the same kind of numbers that sorcs pull).

 

Oh really? Please show me the screenshot of the 3.6K dps Jugg.

 

Juggs are a melee class. They have to work for their deeps. They nowhere near possess the freedom of Sorcs or any other range DPS class. Just sayin'

[AngusFTW]

TBF its probably possible on vigilance/vengeance in a game where people stack like morons tbh. There new smash ability crits hard...i've seen near 3k (not personally but i've seen others do near 3k with vigilance/veng) its a 7-8k (when it crits) aoe on a pretty low cd and its spreads dots... so high numbers will def be possible with the right amount sorc healers circle jerking each otther xD Edited December 19, 2014 by AngusFTW

[kianandersen]

Bioware you need to address some class balance issues badly. Sorcs are just flat out absurd right now. Surely you can see the game metrics and know how stupidly overpowered sorcs are right now. I've consistently seen match after match of sorcs doing 1.2+mill damage and 350+k healing. Bubbles need a cool down and healing needs to be needed. No other class is capable of this. Also their ability that makes them immune to everything and can't be interrupted. One on one they are almost unkillable.

 

Seriously, it's just dumb at this point.

 

 

Ummmm how about they start with scaling down jugg/guardian dmg... they do just as much dmg.. as sorcs, and are a hell of lot harder to kill.... they need to remove enragede defense, from the dps. ive been hit for 16k+ with just 1 hit from a jugg.. i come no where near that dmg on my sorc... so no sorcs arent OP... jugss/guardians are..

[kianandersen]

If by survivability you mean unkillable, then yes they gave them survivability.

 

Look sorcs are not balanced. Bubbles need a cd or only available to healers. Go against a war zone team with 3 sorcs, and you will see how retarded it is. They all heal, bubble, stun, run away fast, heal up... It's not even fun playing a match against multiple sorcs

 

 

#juggs vs 3 sorcs... ill bet the juggs win... simply higher numbers on burst dmg, and better surviablility..

[Yamahara]

Ummmm how about they start with scaling down jugg/guardian dmg... they do just as much dmg.. as sorcs, and are a hell of lot harder to kill.... they need to remove enragede defense, from the dps. ive been hit for 16k+ with just 1 hit from a jugg.. i come no where near that dmg on my sorc... so no sorcs arent OP... jugss/guardians are..

 

Lol. Be happy, Jugg dps is cut in half compared to what it use to be. If you're still having problems with them today..I don't know what to tell you.

[Master-Nala]

Lol. Be happy, Jugg dps is cut in half compared to what it use to be. If you're still having problems with them today..I don't know what to tell you.

 

Was that hyperbole intentional or are you serious? Because Jugg damage seems just fine to me.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Master-Nala

[alexsamma]

Lol. Be happy, Jugg dps is cut in half compared to what it use to be. If you're still having problems with them today..I don't know what to tell you.

 

What....

 

Dude, no, jugg dps is very very good in 3.0...

[alexsamma]

Oh really? Please show me the screenshot of the 3.6K dps Jugg.

 

Juggs are a melee class. They have to work for their deeps. They nowhere near possess the freedom of Sorcs or any other range DPS class. Just sayin'

 

http://assets.enjin.com/wall_embed_images/1418815053_Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-12-14-2014-19-04-38.jpg

 

This is 3k from someone I know... who doesn't farm dps... now put someone who really likes to farm on a jugg and see what happens.

Edited December 19, 2014 by alexsamma

[Zadtro]

http://assets.enjin.com/wall_embed_images/1418815053_Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-12-14-2014-19-04-38.jpg

 

This is 3k from someone I know... who doesn't farm dps... now put someone who really likes to farm on a jugg and see what happens.

 

Was that from a lvl 60 match? Because if not it doesn't really count. Overall damage should be alot higher if that was endgame pvp.

 

Jug/Guard dps has taken a hit from where it was but in pvp BUT we make up for it with survivability, with all the big hitters running around we are still the first to jump into the middle of everything and have sustainable dps whilst in the middle of all the shizzle being thrown around.