Vengance vs Rage 3.0 PVP - What do you think?

[kronichabit]

Are you guys kidding, I hope so. Rage in rwz or vengeance ? No brainer the way I see it, most of veng/vig damage comes from aoe dots that tick over time, great for reg wz but the time to tick in rwz isn't fast enough. Think of it as a dumber version of smash, if I can't crit everyone around me with smash at once then then I want single target attack that kills. That's why vig/veng from 2.7-3.0 was so dominant because they made focus obsolete and gave vig/veng single target kills. Same is true with focus/rage now, the single target kill is crazy intense and the time it takes the dot to finish you could be dead from focus/rage single target burst. I can keep going but let me end it with a bang. Only the old school smashers that know how to utilize the aoe dot the best, trust me outta the good smashers and hand full of the elite smashers, they know how to place that aoe dot better than you. do more damage than most all vig/veng players. haha Edited January 4, 2015 by kronichabit
spelling

[Raansu]

Are you guys kidding, I hope so. Rage in rwz or vengeance ? No brainer the way I see it, most of veng/vig damage comes from aoe dots that tick over time, great for reg wz but the time to tick in rwz isn't fast enough. Think of it as a dumber version of smash, if I can't crit everyone around me with smash at once then then I want single target attack that kills. That's why vig/veng from 2.7-3.0 was so dominant because they made focus obsolete and gave vig/veng single target kills. Same is true with focus/rage now, the single target kill is crazy intense and the time it takes the dot to finish you could be dead from focus/rage single target burst. I can keep going but let me end it with a bang. Only the old school smashers that know how to utilize the aoe dot the best, trust me outta the good smashers and hand full of the elite smashers, they know how to place that aoe dot better than you. do more damage than most all vig/veng players. haha

 

You have no clue how the rwz meta is currently do you?

[DethlaHadyn]

You have no clue how the rwz meta is currently do you?

 

 

Of course he does! He's an "old school smasha"!

[Raansu]

Of course he does! He's an "old school smasha"!

 

For the one week that it worked in arenas? lol

[Zadtro]

I was vigilance for a while but swapped to focus/rage because of the burst, i have been doing more damage. I jump people and they wait 4 secs to stun me anyway, players can be lazy and not look at your buffs and saber form

 

I tested it on a dummy and the difference is 100dps, it isn't really that much, I will say though i have had a 15.5k hit from focus/rage and 11k from vigilance/vengeance. But to be fair the only reason that happened was because gather strength doesn't proc as much as vigilance.

[malicemiles]

Vengacne gaurds make me sick. I leap in, awe and everyone is cc'd. Oh, wait.. here comes the vengeance spec gaurd behind me, aoe'ing all my soft cc'd enemies. Thanks a lot.

 

As the guy above me stated, veng is good for when if you want to get high dmg at the end of the match...but that doesn't win games. As focus I drop people in a matter of seconds. Which leads to a capped objective. Yes, vengeance might be an easier rotation but easy does not equal better.

 

Now in ranked, in most viable team comps, I say focus is hands down the best. Single target burst is too good. You don't interrupt soft cc with your dots, you can focus fire with a powertech to blow someone up. Now I believe you can have an aoe, dot team comp where vengeance would fit right in.

 

It's all personal preference but in 95% of most pvp situations, focus for the win. IMO

[Zadtro]

Woo for focus

 

(and rage I suppose)

[wadecounty]

Vengacne gaurds make me sick. I leap in, awe and everyone is cc'd. Oh, wait.. here comes the vengeance spec gaurd behind me, aoe'ing all my soft cc'd enemies. Thanks a lot.

 

As the guy above me stated, veng is good for when if you want to get high dmg at the end of the match...but that doesn't win games. As focus I drop people in a matter of seconds. Which leads to a capped objective. Yes, vengeance might be an easier rotation but easy does not equal better.

 

Now in ranked, in most viable team comps, I say focus is hands down the best. Single target burst is too good. You don't interrupt soft cc with your dots, you can focus fire with a powertech to blow someone up. Now I believe you can have an aoe, dot team comp where vengeance would fit right in.

 

It's all personal preference but in 95% of most pvp situations, focus for the win. IMO

Well, as you said, its all personal preference, but this is as biased as those saying only vengeance. You admitted yourself vengeance would do well in aoe dot comps for ranked, it also has better survivability (very important in ranked).

 

For regs, for as good as rage is at bursting down targets, vengeance is much better sustained damage which can make the difference in stale mate matches at mid on Novare, Civil War, and Voidstar. Vengeance also destroys rage in both Huttball maps for obvious reasons (having obliterate is nice to screw over snipers, but Unstoppable >> all for Huttball).

 

So I'm not going to put a number like 95% on it. You can't go wrong with either spec, and great players will make both work. They both have their niche.

[ahzecklawd]

Rage > With a Pre.

 

Vengeance > Solo.

 

 

Vengeance is a lot better if you're playing Solo,you'll probably be Focused a lot and Vengeance benefits from lots of Def sources. (Unstoppable,FC 20% reduction + immunity,DD,5% reduction + a further 15% with ED active and the most useful ... IR -15 cd). Mixing those with the Passive's (from Skill/Master/Hero) you're pretty much a Wall.

 

 

I find Rage to be more Fun tho.Less Def CD's but lot more Burst.A Pre will definitely benefit more,because you can swap btw AoE/ST Burst and that's quiet helpful specially in Arena's.You can Leap Sniper's (even while in Cover ....) let's not forget the 5% DMG Increase from FP.

 

 

Overall,both play different.One is more ST Focused and one is a little bit of both.

Edited January 10, 2015 by ahzecklawd

[Alec_Fortescue]

Rage is a joke now. Vengeance owns in everything.

[malicemiles]

Rage is a joke now. Vengeance owns in everything.

 

This is why I say Vengeance guards are moronic and make me sick. Ignorant and oblivious. Keep spreading dots, breaking everyone's cc, accomplish nothing and place around the lower numbers, in terms of damage.

 

Well, as you said, its all personal preference, but this is as biased as those saying only vengeance. You admitted yourself vengeance would do well in aoe dot comps for ranked, it also has better survivability (very important in ranked).

 

For regs, for as good as rage is at bursting down targets, vengeance is much better sustained damage which can make the difference in stale mate matches at mid on Novare, Civil War, and Voidstar. Vengeance also destroys rage in both Huttball maps for obvious reasons (having obliterate is nice to screw over snipers, but Unstoppable >> all for Huttball).

 

So I'm not going to put a number like 95% on it. You can't go wrong with either spec, and great players will make both work. They both have their niche.

 

Yes, Vengeance has it's roles in pvp.. not a lot, but a few. It's true. That's not being biased, that's using facts and knowledge of ranked matches. There's scenarios that vengeance would do well. Focus is much better for competitive, ranked arenas though. No reason to argue that. Survivability is almost irrelevant for guard/juggs in arenas. I never get focused, do the most dps and get all the killing blows. That's why I'm completely okay with everyone bandwagoning veng/vigil. The more chances someone thinks I'm a dinky veng guard, the better.

 

Also sustained damage doesn't stop stalemates. Killing a healer in two shots stops stalemates. Focus can do that, Veng can't. Huttball? Anyone can throw a ball, carry a ball, score with the ball. If you mean walking the ball from one side to another, I'd say immortal would be your best bet. For me, from my experiences? I've done it all as Focus. White bar, pop all DCD's, walk the ball in or pass it to someone who can. Veng doesn't ''destroy'' Focus in huttball. You have a similar situation like the 'stalemates,' Veng causing aoe sustatined dot damage. Breaking all the cc, not bursting down a healer. Not that good man.

 

I stick to my number. Focus in PVP is better 95% of the time. Both are fun, both are viable... but Focus is hands down the best choice for serious PVP.

[B-Quick]

Also sustained damage doesn't stop stalemates. Killing a healer in two shots stops stalemates. Focus can do that, Veng can't. Huttball? Anyone can throw a ball, carry a ball, score with the ball. If you mean walking the ball from one side to another, I'd say immortal would be your best bet. For me, from my experiences? I've done it all as Focus. White bar, pop all DCD's, walk the ball in or pass it to someone who can. Veng doesn't ''destroy'' Focus in huttball. You have a similar situation like the 'stalemates,' Veng causing aoe sustatined dot damage. Breaking all the cc, not bursting down a healer. Not that good man.

 

Just how are you killing a healer with shots? I understand maybe if they were at give or take 20-26k health, but if they are at full health your "burst" is not going to kill them in two shots. So unless you know of a way to deal 40k+ damage in 2 gcd's you are not two shotting healers.

 

And before you go and say just another vengeance player ragging on my parade because I have vengeance listed in my signature. I have tried rage and it is enjoyable I have just been playing vengeance since 1.0 and have always liked it.

[Zadtro]

Focus/rage is fun and so is vigilance/vengeance.

 

So it really comes down to play style, when a healer gets low on hp and you need to down him with a big hit you have the crits for it with focus/rage.

 

If you need constant damage with rooting then vigilance/vengeance. Honestly both are viable, it depends on which you personally enjoy.

 

Try both, respeccing is easy now

[detora]

1v1 in most situations Vengeance is better. Rage is squishier and easily CC'd and kited.

 

In ranked 4s, I personally prefer Rage in 3.0 (but in the current meta where Sins and PT's are T1, running a warrior dps is an uphill battle). You have much better and reliable burst windows, no DoTs to worry about breaking your own or your team's AoE mezz . Fact is, Vengeance can be shutdown rather easily if the enemy team is cycling roots on you and prevents you from leaping on CD. The spec heavily relies on Unstoppable to get the most out of it.

 

In reg's, Vengeance is pretty much the go-to spec and is easier to get bigger damage numbers at the end of the match. The playstyle to me is quite similar to the good ol' lolsmash days. Now, you leap in, Shatter-Vengeful Slam a big group and marvel in the derpyness.

 

Rage is more complex to play rotationally and is more challenging in PvP because you don't have Unstoppable as a crutch. I really like Rage in 3.0, but I don't play it much because of glaring class balance issues.

[malicemiles]

Just how are you killing a healer with shots? I understand maybe if they were at give or take 20-26k health, but if they are at full health your "burst" is not going to kill them in two shots. So unless you know of a way to deal 40k+ damage in 2 gcd's you are not two shotting healers.

 

And before you go and say just another vengeance player ragging on my parade because I have vengeance listed in my signature. I have tried rage and it is enjoyable I have just been playing vengeance since 1.0 and have always liked it.

 

Full min/maxed 174 pvp gear focusing on power. No crit, no alacrity, power augments only. I think the most I've done is 18k in 1 concentrated slice. Focused burst highest I've seen is probably 14k. That's pretty much two shots. If a sorc is less than 75%, he will die in two shots if he does not react properly.

[wadecounty]

Full min/maxed 174 pvp gear focusing on power. No crit, no alacrity, power augments only. I think the most I've done is 18k in 1 concentrated slice. Focused burst highest I've seen is probably 14k. That's pretty much two shots. If a sorc is less than 75%, he will die in two shots if he does not react properly.

 

You will never kill a geared healer that quickly (or hit one for 18k for that matter). I mean you have to clarify what you're talking about, if you mean pug stomping both specs will do equally well. If you mean against a good team in regs or good team in ranked, that's a whole other matter.

 

And when I say stalemates, if you could burst the healer down there would be no stalemate. The point is both teams have good healers and tanks that guard swap, and so you need the aoe pressure Vengeance can provide to wear them down sometimes. In ranked, its a different game type obviously but the same strats can still apply.

 

If the only thing you care about is group ranked, Rage will work well with a burst comp. But if you're paired with say, a Hatred Sin, why wouldn't you go Vengeance for dot cleave? Because they're going to be dotting up everything as well anyways.

[malicemiles]

*hits someone for 18k*

 

"You can't do that."

 

Okay, sure I can't dude.

 

Do you read my post or just reply blindly? I said both are viable. You can run a dot comp. Burst, from my experience is a lot better though in ranked. When I say ranked, I mean premade 4s in voicechat/vent. I've hit for 18,000. You don't have to believe me. I could careless, I know what I did.

[ARockLobzta]

Coming from a 4s player, the sad fact is that rage nor veng can compare to what sins, sorcs and PTs can bring to the table damage wise. Hell, even right now jugg tanks are the lowest DPS wise. Until the FoTM classes get nerfed, jugg dps just isn't desirable over others in 4s ranked.

[Neulwen]

There is a consensus about marauders being UP now, but for ranked, rage juggernauts are on par with ragearauders, as the damage is lower and the mobility not that much better.

[BlobbMonster]

Rage needs some form of unstoppable/unremitting to be competitive, end of story.

[Ryuku-sama]

Rage needs some form of unstoppable/unremitting to be competitive, end of story.

 

No it doesn't. Between all its slows, roots, two leaps and 2 fairly good 10m hitters, Rage is fine.

[DethlaHadyn]

Vengeance is great. It's a powerful and effective discipline to play. But, I've found myself playing rage last couple days, after I realised that I've watched the "charge/ravage" animation for the one millionth time. Haha, not even joking. Vengeance is an aggressive and extremely fun spec to play. Period.

 

 

Rage. Hmm. Definitely a lot of room for self expression with this spec. Absolutely lethal. I love it. Regretfully, I'll have to take a bit longer break from watching vengeful slam I'm afraid.

[Defecter]

This is why I say Vengeance guards are moronic and make me sick. Ignorant and oblivious. Keep spreading dots, breaking everyone's cc, accomplish nothing and place around the lower numbers, in terms of damage.

I think you made the rest of your post irrelevant, because nobody is reading it after this retarded statement.

[Azuyr]

Played both, like both, but Vengeance is better(though it pains me I can't say rage).

 

It's better at defense and at successfully rooting enemies. Charge(1st root) -> Ravage(2nd root)->Saber throw with root from utility(4th)->Impale autocrit from vindicator set->shatter->Ravage(5th). This is, clearly, hypothetical, but most of the times, attacked player will panic and use breaker.

 

Also, Vengeance has a nice and simple flow, compared to Rage, where you have to hit certain abilities to obtain procs and knockbacks and stuns often screw up your rotation. Damage wise, Rage IS superior, considerably so, I would say, and if you focus targets well with other players I would say it can be more effective than vengeance. But being cc-ed leaves a lot of open windows where you lose time(=therefore, damage), and Vengeance makes up in that.

 

I think people should test both more and explore, and then post feedback regularly, based on results .

Edited January 25, 2015 by Azuyr

[Alister]

rage all the way!! veng is easy mode.