Vengance vs Rage 3.0 PVP - What do you think?

[MasterXyrus]

Hey,

 

Curious to know how people feel about these two different specs.

 

I for one am loving rage. I love how bursty it is compared to vengance, however, I am still getting used to the rotation.

I'm curious how does everyone else feel about these two specs in 1v1 against each other, and against other classes, and in WZs.

 

The 2 things I miss most about Vengance are Unstoppable and the 2nd ravage, but I find that Furious Strike and Raging burst hit super hard, taking enemies down pretty fast.

 

Anyone else feel this way?

[Bare-Giin]

I like vengeance lot better, better flow, much more surviability, better AOE and more fun x) feels like the single target dmg is about the same only difference is that u trade lots of surviability for more spikey dmg in rage and thats not worth it IMO

[Preventer_Wind]

both are good and fun. I think biggest change is on Rage spec that it isn't aoe spec anymore, but more of a bursty single target dps tree, if vengeance is a sustained bruiser single target dps spec. now the fact that rage spec gained 2 abilities to use on the go (the new skill you get at 57 which activates retaliation), thus enabling the use of retaliation as a part of rotation really streamlines the whole process now. I like the new Rage spec and its single target burstiness. Say good bye to AOE, which may have been the spec's old purpose, but it has gained new purpose and fits the description well.

Vengeance is always fun and straightforward so it really is up to you. I am trying out all three specs for pvp and i like them all three so far. very much.

[waterboytkd]

I LOVE rage spec. Sadly, I think I'm going to be playing Vengeance.

 

The reasons are the following:

 

1) Though Rage is more bursty, it's not by much. You can still get some heavy hits in with Vengeance.

2) Vengeance has MUCH better sustained damage. In this current meta, with our health going up by 10+k, but our damage not going up by 30%, people live longer. I find that the sustained damage is more vital.

3) I love using Vicious Throw, and Vengeance gets to use it a lot more.

And last, but not least (in fact, it's the biggest reason:

4) UNSTOPPABLE! This ability is just too important right now for a melee class. There are sooooo many knockbacks, roots, stuns, etc., that getting this 4 second window to go nuts is just too important.

 

If Unstoppable were a utility, I'd probably be in Rage spec. If it were a utility, I'd also cry to get it as a Sent/Mara utility, too.

[ThirdDementor]

I LOVE rage spec. Sadly, I think I'm going to be playing Vengeance.

 

The reasons are the following:

 

1) Though Rage is more bursty, it's not by much. You can still get some heavy hits in with Vengeance.

2) Vengeance has MUCH better sustained damage. In this current meta, with our health going up by 10+k, but our damage not going up by 30%, people live longer. I find that the sustained damage is more vital.

3) I love using Vicious Throw, and Vengeance gets to use it a lot more.

And last, but not least (in fact, it's the biggest reason:

4) UNSTOPPABLE! This ability is just too important right now for a melee class. There are sooooo many knockbacks, roots, stuns, etc., that getting this 4 second window to go nuts is just too important.

 

If Unstoppable were a utility, I'd probably be in Rage spec. If it were a utility, I'd also cry to get it as a Sent/Mara utility, too.

 

I agree with you, and I'd also like to add Deafening Defense to the list. 5% passive damage reduction, 20% when Endure Pain is active. And on top of that, it shaves 15 seconds off the cooldown of Intimidating Roar.

 

Vengeance is too good not to use. And the best part is: with all those PTs, Sorcerers and Assassins running around, we aren't even considered OP anymore

[Lifexless]

Rage just feels way too clunky. Too many new skills, i never feel like i have enough resource, and the animations are weird. OH, and i miss vengeful slam.

 

If it comes to light that Rage completely outclasses vengeance DPS wise by a pretty substantial amount I'll figure out my hotbar and rotation but till then, Vengeance for me.

[wadecounty]

The issue is, we're back to a state of PvP where sustained can actually matter again. And Vengeance comes out on top both in terms of sustaining yourself (better survivability) and sustained damage on the enemy.

 

In general burst specs are not in a very good spot in PvP right now, as they burst for almost the same amounts pre 3.0, except everyone has 10k more health, which is usually at least 1 extra GCD they get to live and pop cooldowns or get healed back up, which is awful for burst specs. The only burst spec that really got a buff to their burst was Pyro (well now AP) thanks to Thermal going back to the way it used to be and Energy Burst hitting ridiculously hard, and unsurprisingly, they're the only burst DPS spec really dominating right now in PvP (well, Lightning Sorcs are bursty too, but they do sustained well as well, they're just awesome everywhere).

[Raansu]

The issue is, we're back to a state of PvP where sustained can actually matter again. And Vengeance comes out on top both in terms of sustaining yourself (better survivability) and sustained damage on the enemy.

 

In general burst specs are not in a very good spot in PvP right now, as they burst for almost the same amounts pre 3.0, except everyone has 10k more health, which is usually at least 1 extra GCD they get to live and pop cooldowns or get healed back up, which is awful for burst specs. The only burst spec that really got a buff to their burst was Pyro (well now AP) thanks to Thermal going back to the way it used to be and Energy Burst hitting ridiculously hard, and unsurprisingly, they're the only burst DPS spec really dominating right now in PvP (well, Lightning Sorcs are bursty too, but they do sustained well as well, they're just awesome everywhere).

 

I did 1600 dps last night as a level 60 rage, in brut gear. Only my weapon has the new mods. I think rage will be perfectly fine. Its got plenty of sustained to go along with its burst.

[wadecounty]

I did 1600 dps last night as a level 60 rage, in brut gear. Only my weapon has the new mods. I think rage will be perfectly fine. Its got plenty of sustained to go along with its burst.

 

I don't think Rage is bad, I just think Vengeance is flat better. That's all. But it also depends what your team needs, if you already have a lot of sustained and room for a burst DPS, Rage fills it nicely.

 

For Arenas I can't see Rage being better. But, I haven't done any since 3.0 so that's completely guessing for now. I just can't see anyone bursting targets down now with the way things have changed, and Vengeance has advantages in both survivability and sustained damage. Dot spread could also allow Vengeance to apply some very nice pressure to teams, although at the expense of messing up CC's.

[Raansu]

I don't think Rage is bad, I just think Vengeance is flat better. That's all. But it also depends what your team needs, if you already have a lot of sustained and room for a burst DPS, Rage fills it nicely.

 

For Arenas I can't see Rage being better. But, I haven't done any since 3.0 so that's completely guessing for now. I just can't see anyone bursting targets down now with the way things have changed, and Vengeance has advantages in both survivability and sustained damage. Dot spread could also allow Vengeance to apply some very nice pressure to teams, although at the expense of messing up CC's.

 

I've been running both specs. I don't see either has being flat out better. One is bursty, the other has some burst and mostly sustained. Just different playstyles but both do well and neither are better imo.

[veSev]

Hey,

 

Curious to know how people feel about these two different specs.

 

I for one am loving rage. I love how bursty it is compared to vengance, however, I am still getting used to the rotation.

I'm curious how does everyone else feel about these two specs in 1v1 against each other, and against other classes, and in WZs.

 

The 2 things I miss most about Vengance are Unstoppable and the 2nd ravage, but I find that Furious Strike and Raging burst hit super hard, taking enemies down pretty fast.

 

Anyone else feel this way?

 

I am more of a PVE player, but I just havent found a use for Focus/Rage in PVE yet. This on top of the fact that I am not a huge fan of the spec becoming a single target spec has me running Vigilance/Vengeance exclusively since 3.0 dropped. However, I can see Rage/Focus being a good PVP spec because of the burst. I PVP sparingly, but the possibility of 30k damage off 3 GCDs, if they all crit, in Rage/Focus is a scary possibility.

[Kitsanth]

I don't think Rage is bad, I just think Vengeance is flat better. That's all. But it also depends what your team needs, if you already have a lot of sustained and room for a burst DPS, Rage fills it nicely.

 

For Arenas I can't see Rage being better. But, I haven't done any since 3.0 so that's completely guessing for now. I just can't see anyone bursting targets down now with the way things have changed, and Vengeance has advantages in both survivability and sustained damage. Dot spread could also allow Vengeance to apply some very nice pressure to teams, although at the expense of messing up CC's.

 

I mostly play either my jugg or my merc healer, so here are some multiple perspectives on this. First,The way heals are right now with more aoe heals and definitely higher hps (most ranked on the ebon hawk is seeing between 3000-4700 hps) any sort of pressure comp is having issues because ale pressure is just fluff damage. Healers also have more time to react to multiple team members with the higher hp. The only way killing is happening these days is putting all that damage on one target, really really fast, and overwhelming the healer.

 

As far as rage jugg, the burst is insane compared to vengeance. It's also nice that retaliation is useful for once and will never miss, and your biggest dps Attack (raging burst) isn't weapon damage. Had a lot of issues with ravage dodging on vengeance. Oh, and you also get two massive auto crits, if the rest wasn't enough, raging burst normally hitting at least 8k on an unguarded dps/healer... Furious strike at 10-14k when it hits. Pretty much, rage is amazing in arenas, but in 8s, vengeance is way better because of its utility, rather than killing power. I'm sure you could still run vengeance in arenas if you were with a massive burst spec like AP PT, or something.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Kitsanth
forgot some info

[Vodrin]

In general burst specs are not in a very good spot in PvP right now, as they burst for almost the same amounts pre 3.0, except everyone has 10k more health, which is usually at least 1 extra GCD they get to live and pop cooldowns or get healed back up, which is awful for burst specs. .

 

Um.... AP PT and carnage mara would like to have a word with you. Both can put out better than 30K damage on a geared target in 3 seconds if set up correctly. That is as high a percentage of total health as any burst spec ever in this game. Concealment op in 1.0 could not beat that.

 

Vengeance is pretty good right now, but lets not put the burst meta to bed just yet.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Vodrin

[shule]

Rage is fine atm.

Dont forget that one of the biggest problems of rage spec was pushback afther force charge and constantly missing the target with smash in pvp. Now, our rageing burst hits from 10m distance and even pushed back you can hit. Rotation now is more fun and demanding. I use 11 attack skills in my rotation not counting force charge, force choke, force push or auto attack.

Retaliation can hit if crits 5k or more. Sabre throw hits 5k now. Also dont forget that having few autocrits you can put more power in your gear.

Vengance is FOTM atm but Rage is also fine. I would only give to rage spec possibility to use retaliation instant without 1.5 sec CD for a bit more burst

Edited December 18, 2014 by shule

[Raansu]

I would only give to rage spec possibility to use retaliation instant without 1.5 sec CD for a bit more burst

 

omg yes. I'm so tired of retaliation being on the GCD. I can't break my old habit of hitting the keybind in between skills and its annoying -_-. It hits hard but not THAT hard that it needs to be on the GCD.....

[Kitsanth]

Rage is fine atm.

Dont forget that one of the biggest problems of rage spec was pushback afther force charge and constantly missing the target with smash in pvp. Now, our rageing burst hits from 10m distance and even pushed back you can hit. Rotation now is more fun and demanding. I use 11 attack skills in my rotation not counting force charge, force choke, force push or auto attack.

Retaliation can hit if crits 5k or more. Sabre throw hits 5k now. Also dont forget that having few autocrits you can put more power in your gear.

Vengance is FOTM atm but Rage is also fine. I would only give to rage spec possibility to use retaliation instant without 1.5 sec CD for a bit more burst

 

Also, having hydraulic overrides from utilities on a jugg now makes life a ton better as far as getting pushed back...

 

Oh, and something I forgot earlier... Rage is also great because you don't have to ever hit your little weenie free attack to build focus, So your dps doesn't have any massive drop offs. I'll post a parse when I get off work to show how level your dps stays. It's a beautiful thing.

 

EDIT: heck, I'll just parse both vengeance and rage and see what happens. I'm very curious... Though I don't know if there is a way to simulate accuracy vs an actual player, so maybe I'll ask a couple friends to heal up a player while I whack them lol... Or I could be lazy and use a dummy, which will give skewed results

Edited December 18, 2014 by Kitsanth
adding a thought

[malicemiles]

Both are viable. I enjoyster focus. I believe it is unfair to sat focus is not as good. Like it has been stated previously each spec involves different playstyles. In 1v1 and certain 21 situations I can insta-gib someone in 4-6 seconds as focus. I also don't jump into fights all willy-nilly. I hang back, I wait to find a 75% or lower target in a fight and than I jump it. Drop someone, jump out. Rinse and repeat. Different strokes for different folks. Let's not jump and say one is better than the other.

 

*ignore my typos, on my phone*

Edited December 19, 2014 by malicemiles

[TheSandManzzz]

If Unstoppable were a utility, I'd probably be in Rage spec. If it were a utility, I'd also cry to get it as a Sent/Mara utility, too.

 

My jugg is my main and i do love unstoppable i feel it would be bad to make it a utility for a few reasons. First in vengance you have to stand still to ravage which is your biggest ability. So having it makes sense. I remember when you didn't get unstoppable and people would just laugh at vengeance juggs in pvp as they would stun and knock them back as soon as they started ravaging. However in Rage spec, all your abilities can be used on the move, except for ravage which isnt a huge part of your dps. If you do get knocked back you can always use obliterate and jump back to the target.

 

As a second point, Unstoppable would not be fair to give to Maras. I have played a Mara mostly in Annihilation spec but i have played carnage in pvp. In max level pvp i have been able to kill people (with full health) with 1 uninterrupted Gore ravage combo. Thats like 30k plus damage with basicly 1 ability. Although i get frustrated at getting knocked back or stunned after my first tick of ravage 90% of the time it is however necessary for balance. If people were unable to knock you back or stun you, carnage maras would be king in pvp and destroy anyone with little effort or skill.

Edited December 23, 2014 by TheSandManzzz

[Vember]

I prefer Vengeance because of the never ending rotation with no filler. Very fluid spec.

[DethlaHadyn]

My dps In arenas is usually higher when I'm specced rage, but not by a lot. Your dps will be determined by the quality of your opponent's taunts. Vengeance invokes a certain level of fear I think, for everyone except powertechs it seems, will try desperately to stay out of my path.

 

 

 

• If you want to be a frontline leader of the attack, with lots of control- spec vengeance.
   
  
• If you want to be an immaculate powerhouse that rapes face- spec rage.
  

 

 

 

Honestly? I don't care if Rage spec had a force attack that blew energy out his arse and killed everyone on the map. You cannot deny that Vengeful Slam is the coolest animation in the game. Like... Get yourself a Black Suit of Jug armor, get a serious sabre, and slam away...

[Manweth]

Vigilance for PvE.

 

Vigilance for PvP..

 

Vigilance for RP.

 

Vigilance for LARP.

 

Vigilance for frigging Life.

 

I don't even respec at Draxus anymore, AOE with Vigilance is that good nowadays.

[ARockLobzta]

Coming form a Tier 1 PVPer, I wouldn't run Rage in solo ranked. Rage is easily CC'ed, and the amount of CC's going around right now is insane, not to mention anti-kiting abilities. The survivability from vengeance and the unstoppable buff will carry you along way in solo ranked, not to mention it hits much harder in 3.0. As far as rage goes, it works well in 4s because your healers will actually cleanse you from being CC'ed and you can coordinate your burst.

[waterboytkd]

Up to 3.0, I main'd Combat/Carnage. I have since switched to Guardian/Juggs. After quite a bit of playing in both Vengeance and Rage, I've found that Rage plays a lot more like the way Carnage did. It's a very "finesse" spec, where you want to be choosy about your target, and coordinate a lot with teammates.

 

Vengeance was equally awesome but very different. Thanks to DoTs, DoT spreading, and Unstoppable, I felt like it was more "faceroll"-y than Rage. That's not to say that playing it is just rolling your face across the keyboard. It still required an actual involved rotation that varied based on whether you were leaping into a crowd or at a single target, and the single target would vary itself based off procs. But it seemed to require a bit less coordination with your teammates and it had more of a "leap in and don't give no fu--s" feel (thanks to Unstoppable).

 

But my god, do I wish I could get Vengeful Slam animation on Rage...

[TheSandManzzz]

But my god, do I wish I could get Vengeful Slam animation on Rage...

I think we all wholeheartedly feel this way.

[Sudo]

But my god, do I wish I could get Vengeful Slam animation on Rage...

I think we all wholeheartedly feel this way.

 

Glad i'm not the only one...soon as I hit 57 and played around with VS, didn't look back...