Matroxxx Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hello fellow PTs and Vanguards! For starters, please let me explain the reason for this post. I have never tanked with PT before. I have had decent tanking experience with Sins and Guards and I have always augmented their gear with shield/absord/defence (whatever was needed). My reason for this was because more secondary stats meant that your HP pool was "worth" more and healers had easier time healing you. Using def/shield/abs augments to increase your stat pool was always better then using endurance augments to simply increase your HP. But now I started wondering... With new gear, our stat pool has increased significantly. I do not know how much (if at all) the stat calculation has changed for tanks, but if it hasn't, then the diminishing returns for tank stats are huge, aren't they? With such a big stat pool, every next point in defense/shield/absorb has a minimal impact on our mitigation. Fow lower level gear that situation is still obvious: higher mitigation stats are better the endurance. But Im wondering about highest level gear. At which point do the diminishing returns make endurance augments more beneficial then mitigation stats augments? Or is it never better to augment endurance and we should still stick with mitigation stats, even with high diminishing returns? Just to clarify: This whole post refers to PvE tanking. For PvP I heard that endurance is in fact more beneficial, although I cannot confirm that myself, since I do not play PvP I would really appreciate the input from experienced tanking specialists Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hello fellow PTs and Vanguards! For starters, please let me explain the reason for this post. I have never tanked with PT before. I have had decent tanking experience with Sins and Guards and I have always augmented their gear with shield/absord/defence (whatever was needed). My reason for this was because more secondary stats meant that your HP pool was "worth" more and healers had easier time healing you. Using def/shield/abs augments to increase your stat pool was always better then using endurance augments to simply increase your HP. But now I started wondering... With new gear, our stat pool has increased significantly. I do not know how much (if at all) the stat calculation has changed for tanks, but if it hasn't, then the diminishing returns for tank stats are huge, aren't they? With such a big stat pool, every next point in defense/shield/absorb has a minimal impact on our mitigation. Fow lower level gear that situation is still obvious: higher mitigation stats are better the endurance. But Im wondering about highest level gear. At which point do the diminishing returns make endurance augments more beneficial then mitigation stats augments? Or is it never better to augment endurance and we should still stick with mitigation stats, even with high diminishing returns? Just to clarify: This whole post refers to PvE tanking. For PvP I heard that endurance is in fact more beneficial, although I cannot confirm that myself, since I do not play PvP I would really appreciate the input from experienced tanking specialists Cheers The top reason is that Endurance isn't worth anywhere near as much as Defense, Shield or Absorb in a 1-for-1 basis. If you need extra endurance, the only time it has even the slightest chance of being worth it is with B-mods, where you lose a minor amount of defense/absorb and a decent amount of aim but get a ton of endurance. Thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matroxxx Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thanks for the input Kwerty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcan Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) The biggest problem I have with endurance augs is that your healers will be less effective. If you have 60k health and a healer heals you for 10k, that % is not as effective as a tank with 50k health. The tank with 50k health, but better defense, shield, etc is going to be the better tank. That alone is a massive reason why I'd not stat endurance. If you stack endurance youre going to take hard hits and your healers will have to work overtime to keep your health % up. TL: DR - Big health bars are great, but not at the expense of your secondary defense, absorb, and shield stats. Edited December 11, 2014 by Volcan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitelightr Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I see what the OP is getting at, but ideally the situation should never arise if the stats and diminishing returns are adjust right by the Devs. We *might* see it with NiM gear, the stats there could possibly push tanks so far into DR that you would see a more effective return augmenting for Endurance. But I think even that would only be in absolute min-max, and then only maybe 2-3 augments would need changed. Keep an eye on KBN's thread. I've personally switched to a Guardian tank in 3.0, but he has it all listed. My only issue is it seems some of the 192/198 pieces could have been slightly better balanced for the respective classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 You don't take endurance augs because endurance augs will make you too fat, and if your too fat you won't be able to do tank swaps fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsenex Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 You don't take endurance augs because endurance augs will make you too fat, and if your too fat you won't be able to do tank swaps fast enough. ^^ win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 You don't take endurance augs because endurance augs will make you too fat, and if your too fat you won't be able to do tank swaps fast enough. Endurance augs are BiS for the Jedi tanks though, because more body mass means more Midichlorians, which in turn means more powerful force abilities and better threat. Heck, Endurance augs are probably even better for Sages/Sorcs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellenbec Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Endurance augs are BiS for the Jedi tanks though, because more body mass means more Midichlorians, which in turn means more powerful force abilities and better threat. Heck, Endurance augs are probably even better for Sages/Sorcs! Tam, stop trolling the n00bz please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaowZedong Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 The reason you never take endurance augments for PvE? If you are not dying to a fast burst of damage, you would get zero benefit from more HP, and even if you are, unless the extra HP push you out of the range where you're bursted down, you would still get zero benefits. Even if more Defence/Shield/Absorb gave you only 0.0000001% more mitigation, it would still be infinitely better than endurance. If you're at the point where you're eating heavy DR on mitigation and you're being overhealed in every fight, you should take Power or some other DPS stat over more endurance. The reason being that more threat and damage is never bad, while more endurance would still be useless (of course, the way augments work, you'd get some endurance anyway with power or mainstat). Remember, tanking is about holding aggro and giving the healer a multiplier for his HPS. You're not supposed to be a HP bag draining the healer's mana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDotter Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) If you need HP ( which you do in HM) use B mods. In my gear I'm at 55.5k and in 192-198 gear. basically I gear off Ult comms so noob! Though I would like to see a mean mitigation tank in HM Edited December 13, 2014 by JDotter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 Though I would like to see a mean mitigation tank in HM I'm going to give it one heck of a try. We'll see how it works out. I can always slot in B mods if I need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiaowZedong Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I'm going to give it one heck of a try. We'll see how it works out. I can always slot in B mods if I need to. 60 HM FP is very possible with 186 armourings over Rishi letterless mods. HM Ops are obviously harder, but you probably have the old 186 NiM stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Going off KBN's guide with full mitigation in mostly 186's is amazing provided you have a decently geared healer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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