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Rydarus' 4.0+ Vigilance/Vengeance Guide on Dulfy

GrandLordMenace

By GrandLordMenace
in Guardian / Juggernaut

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CRYPTfromLA

CRYPTfromLA

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Posted (edited)

I really need an advice what i am doing wrong. Have almost 75 days allready played with my jugg, he's a mine char, love this class, but when i am looking on dummy parse i am really dissapointed becuse really don't know what i am doing wrong. Basicly, have a lot of experiences with pvp and think so i can say the same with pve progress, but when i see ur dummy pars numbers.

 

 

Built my pve gear with stats (Have full 216 set gear, hilt 220, using critical crystals, relics 208 pvp for boost power and mastery) Made a check on dummy with 1 000 000 hps and armor reduction 20%. I have no used any adrenals, just have my anodyne power stim. On dummy have 5200 +- (APM i have only 37 which i don't understand)

 

ACC 705

CRITI 1142

ALA 817

 

http://imgur.com/bunJ0Jq

 

Using my own rotation (talking now about focus to single target)

-pre cast- Saber Throw, Force Charge

-main rotation- Impale, Vicious Throw, Shatter, Force Scream, Ravage, Sunderring Assault, Vengeaful Slam, Shatter, Force Scream, Ravage, Impale, Shatter, Force Scream etc....

-fillers- Using Vengeaful Slam, Sunderrring Assault, Saber Throw and in the worst case Vicious Slash

 

Because i am not a master of measuring damage i fallen in love to alacrity for vengeance. Love these dots ticking so i am always trying to keep min 2 dots active (if is there a chance all 3 dots active). Thought when became 4.0 so it will be the same system like before where the most alacrity will be really helpfull. Love when my casts and jugg is faster, speed up

 

Tx for advices

Edited by CRYPTfromLA
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lordbadtamaru

lordbadtamaru

Posted
Posted
I really need an advice what i am doing wrong. Have almost 75 days allready played with my jugg, he's a mine char, love this class, but when i am looking on dummy parse i am really dissapointed becuse really don't know what i am doing wrong. Basicly, have a lot of experiences with pvp and think so i can say the same with pve progress, but when i see ur dummy pars numbers.

 

 

Built my pve gear with stats (Have full 216 set gear, hilt 220, using critical crystals, relics 208 pvp for boost power and mastery) Made a check on dummy with 1 000 000 hps and armor reduction 20%. I have no used any adrenals, just have my anodyne power stim. On dummy have 5200 +- (APM i have only 37 which i don't understand)

 

ACC 705

CRITI 1142

ALA 817

 

https://img42.com/bp2u8

 

Using my own rotation (talking now about focus to single target)

-pre cast- Saber Throw, Force Charge

-main rotation- Impale, Vicious Throw, Shatter, Force Scream, Ravage, Sunderring Assault, Vengeaful Slam, Shatter, Force Scream, Ravage, Impale, Shatter, Force Scream etc....

-fillers- Using Vengeaful Slam, Sunderrring Assault, Saber Throw and in the worst case Vicious Slash

 

Because i am not a master of measuring damage i fallen in love to alacrity for vengeance. Love these dots ticking so i am always trying to keep min 2 dots active. Thought when became 4.0 so it will be the same system like before where the most alacrity will be really helpfull. Love when my casts and jugg is faster, speed up

 

Tx for advices

 

Keep all 3 dots up. Doing only 2 is killing your numbers.

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Alec_Fortescue

Alec_Fortescue

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So what happened to class-reps thing? I think we need to push bioware for some nerf reversal instead of trying so hard to improve our parses and performance with a broken class. You will spend hours on dummy practice, reading theorycrafting, gear experimenting and you will never reach the numbers marauders or powertechs have. Edited by Alec_Fortescue
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GrandLordMenace

GrandLordMenace

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So what happened to class-reps thing? I think we need to push bioware for some nerf reversal instead of trying so hard to improve our parses and performance with a broken class. You will spend hours on dummy practice, reading theorycrafting, gear experimenting and you will never reach the numbers marauders or powertechs have.

 

That's precisely why I'm doing it. Showing that the work I put into my guardian is significant yet I'm getting a fraction of the results of other classes is precisely what I want to show.

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CRYPTfromLA

CRYPTfromLA

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Posted
So what happened to class-reps thing? I think we need to push bioware for some nerf reversal instead of trying so hard to improve our parses and performance with a broken class. You will spend hours on dummy practice, reading theorycrafting, gear experimenting and you will never reach the numbers marauders or powertechs have.

 

U are mistaken. It's not about comparing with maras or pts. It's only about how to be the max helpfull to raid team and ur dps role correctly. Unfortunately i was never expecting so that will become a miracle so jugg will be really good dps for pve content, but still... About answer on my post up. Sure so i am trying to keep all 3 dots. But that time when u can keep them together is aprox 2 sec? then 1 will dissapear. And still it's not answering my post before how cna be posible so i can do that low damage on dummy

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GrandLordMenace

GrandLordMenace

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U are mistaken. It's not about comparing with maras or pts. It's only about how to be the max helpfull to raid team and ur dps role correctly. Unfortunately i was never expecting so that will become a miracle so jugg will be really good dps for pve content, but still... About answer on my post up. Sure so i am trying to keep all 3 dots. But that time when u can keep them together is aprox 2 sec? then 1 will dissapear. And still it's not answering my post before how cna be posible so i can do that low damage on dummy

 

Don't worry about aligning the debuffs, just keep the abilities on CD. I still have a video from pre 4.0 showcasing dot uptime and it's still relevant.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/rydarus/v/12856552

 

Also now that I'm not on my **** computer, please put something on parsely, and your opener is.... yeah no.

Edited by GrandLordMenace
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AchillesStark

AchillesStark

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Minor comment about opener:

Since you get 3% bleed damage boost for having each dot on a target, i think the opener should place blade dance ahead of overhead slash. If you do overhead slash then blade dance, the dot from overhead slash will run out before you apply the blade storm dot and thereby lose the 3% damage boost.

 

Also, if you double stack the force rush by using thrust before a boss pull, you will have an auto crit blade storm that procs the set bonus auto crit for overhead slash. An opener with saber throw > leap> blade dance > blade storm > overhead slash will very likely get overhead slash into a double relic proc window with an autocrit. Havent run the numbers on how putting blade storm ahead in the rotation will mess things up down the line but in terms of opener, it's provides a greater burst.

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GrandLordMenace

GrandLordMenace

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Minor comment about opener:

Since you get 3% bleed damage boost for having each dot on a target, i think the opener should place blade dance ahead of overhead slash. If you do overhead slash then blade dance, the dot from overhead slash will run out before you apply the blade storm dot and thereby lose the 3% damage boost.

 

Also, if you double stack the force rush by using thrust before a boss pull, you will have an auto crit blade storm that procs the set bonus auto crit for overhead slash. An opener with saber throw > leap> blade dance > blade storm > overhead slash will very likely get overhead slash into a double relic proc window with an autocrit. Havent run the numbers on how putting blade storm ahead in the rotation will mess things up down the line but in terms of opener, it's provides a greater burst.

 

Blade Dance first doesn't work because it makes the double blade storm and double OHS windows instead a quad dot inside plasma brand window which is hilariously tight on resources. It also doesn't work well for a Blade Storm first opener for that reason.

 

Basically, it's a DPS gain if you aren't doing perfect dot uptime, and a loss if you are.

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CRYPTfromLA

CRYPTfromLA

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1784 Melee, 2558 Force

 

can u post here complete specification of ur veng jugg? Because it's not really possible. I have full 216 set. 220 set gloves, 224 set belt, 224 MH, 198 relics.

 

bonus melee damage i have only 1686,5 (dunno why with comparing u what u posted here)

bonus force damage 2473

 

Mastery - 5187

Endurance - 6081

Critical - 1077

Ala - 890

Accu - 705 (110,23%)

 

(Datacron Master, on starparse i have only 5500 - 5800 what i tried to make today from 5 tries - trying it without any adrenals on 1m dummy)

 

I dunno why i have that low APM only 36 - 36,5 and u have 39,5 - it's not possible?!

 

P.S. did exactly the same rotation how u did - still low dps numbers

Edited by CRYPTfromLA
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GrandLordMenace

GrandLordMenace

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can u post here complete specification of ur veng jugg? Because it's not really possible. I have full 216 set. 220 set gloves, 224 set belt, 224 MH, 198 relics.

 

bonus melee damage i have only 1686,5 (dunno why with comparing u what u posted here)

bonus force damage 2473

 

Mastery - 5187

Endurance - 6081

Critical - 1077

Ala - 890

Accu - 705 (110,23%)

 

(Datacron Master, on starparse i have only 5500 - 5800 what i tried to make today from 5 tries - trying it without any adrenals on 1m dummy)

 

I dunno why i have that low APM only 36 - 36,5 and u have 39,5 - it's not possible?!

 

P.S. did exactly the same rotation how u did - still low dps numbers

 

You're delaying your dots significantly (both of you are but the difference is that he's getting the good crits.)

 

Your opener is atrocious, like absolutely so. You're doing it all wrong. You're using too many vicious throws, not enough of enrage, your ravage is slow, etc.

 

You're doing less on some abilities with alacrity than juggs without alacrity should be doing.

 

Basically, you're gonna see low parses until randomly freakish crits happen unless you stabilize your dot uptime.

Edited by GrandLordMenace
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dkiinvoker

dkiinvoker

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Posted

I have problem of a different kind. Several times I have stumbled upon that for the second shatter in the opener (optimal or not) I didn't have enough rage (I have Shien form active). Here is how it looks:

 

Saber Throw > Force Charge, Enrage > Impale > Ravage > Ravage* > Shatter > Force Scream > Sundering Assault > Impale > Ravage > Ravage* > Vicious Throw > Force Scream > Shatter

 

So rage generation goes like: Rage generated (Total Rage):

 

+3 (3) > +9 (12) > -3 (9) > 0 (9) > 0* (9) > -1 (8) > -3 (5) > +5 (10) > -3 (7) > 0 (7) > 0 (7) > +1 (8) > -3 (5) > -1 (4)

 

So for the second Shatter there is exactly the amount of rage needed. However, few time I was 1 rage short at this point. I tried to analyze logs and I had a flashback that at one of these instances Saber Throw gave me 2 rage instead of 3. Neither Starparse nor Parsley gave me the answer. But looking at raw combat log files I've noticed that when ability is activated it usually first consumes/generates rage, applies all applicable effects and then it delivers the damage. Could it be possible that before entering combat (dealing damage) but after acquiring rage from Saber Throw, 1 rage point disappeared due to out-of-combat rage vanishing?

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