Rydarus' 4.0+ Vigilance/Vengeance Guide on Dulfy

[svenofnine]

hey there, thanks for the guardian guide but have 2 questions: is there a mirror of that guide for an empire side? and also, can you can check out my parse and let me know what I'm missing. for some reason I can't break 6.2 no matter what I do. http://parsely.io/parser/view/141912/1 stats: 1146 crit, 940 alacrity, 701 acc., 2929 power. thanks again for anything that can help.

[drummerinthesun]

hey there, thanks for the guardian guide but have 2 questions: is there a mirror of that guide for an empire side? and also, can you can check out my parse and let me know what I'm missing. for some reason I can't break 6.2 no matter what I do. http://parsely.io/parser/view/141912/1 stats: 1146 crit, 940 alacrity, 701 acc., 2929 power. thanks again for anything that can help.

 

First look at ability usage. Impale, Shatter, and FS all have very similar average times. This is fundamentally wrong. You should always have 1.3 times as many usages of Impale and FS as shatter. Use each of these abilities on cooldown. Impale and FS should have an average of 8.x seconds between uses, not 11.x. This is all in his guide on how to read parses. I think you're the one who sent me an in-game mail. Ask here or there if you have more questions.

Edited April 19, 2016 by drummerinthesun

[GrandLordMenace]

First look at ability usage. Impale, Shatter, and FS all have very similar average times. This is fundamentally wrong. You should always have 1.3 times as many usages of Impale and FS as shatter. Use each of these abilities on cooldown. Impale and FS should have an average of 8.x seconds between uses, not 11.x. This is all in his guide on how to read parses. I think you're the one who sent me an in-game mail. Ask here or there if you have more questions.

 

Hey, thanks for responding, this was basically what I was going to say, I don't check the forums nearly as often as I should anymore, just because of the current state of game.

[Kiwi_Bird]

As of the Dark vs Light event, there are literally more nails then wood in this game's coffin.

Your guide btw is great!

[GrandLordMenace]

Still here, raiding once a week.

 

I stream @ twitch.tv/rydarus every Sunday or so at 8 EST / 5PM PST. Guardian as always.

 

Typically Styrak/Brontes prog. Killed everything besides that.

Edited August 23, 2016 by GrandLordMenace

[GrandLordMenace]

Killed NiM styrak tonight. https://www.twitch.tv/rydarus/v/91442831

[GrandLordMenace]

New guide soon, eta end of this month.

[Belegnole]

New guide soon, eta end of this month.

 

Thank you, my number crunching days are over. I appreciate it.

[Ranautus]

Your guides have been great. Can't t wait to see what this one has in store. I'm not running dps currently, but so be nice to see what the options are. Appreciate the time and effort taken to put it together. Edited December 12, 2016 by Ranautus

[Andrew_Past]

New guide soon, eta end of this month.

 

As you may have seen, I've returned to check out the changes. I don't know exactly how long I'll be back, but I'm enjoying it overall so far. Below are my initial thoughts. Let me know via PM if you want more details or assistance on the PVP portion of the guide.

 

Utilities in regs and yolos so far: http://dulfy.net/2014/10/13/swtor-disciplines-calculator-swtor_miner/?link=dGEBAAFGAwABGgIDCwwQDhMU

I might switch out through peace for second wind or pulse for yolos.

 

My initial thoughts in PVP is that we're very strong in regs, but are suffering from being perceived as very weak in ranked. However, my experience in solo ranked so far (only one night, but I learned a lot in that time) is that we're not as weak as initial perceptions, but are still slightly weaker than where we should be.

 

A lot of people are citing mobility issues, but I haven't had any problems with that. Using the blade blitz and combat focus root breaks in addition to having saber throw root and freezing force speed boost has allowed me to rarely miss more than 1 GCD due to being rooted or knocked back.

 

Speaking of blade blitz, it feels like it is the key to surviving getting bursted when you're the focus target it allows you to predict and avoid the initial burst and LOS range. Against maras, I let them jump on me, slow/mez them, and blade blitz either to our focus target or behind our team if I need to LOS more. I can follow up with saber throw root afterwards if I have an opportunity. I'll also use blade barrage root to kite melee with blade storm, whirling blade, and saber throw.

 

Against ranged (read, mercs lol), I'll blade blitz to LOS during their initial burst or reflect and walk to LOS. After that, I'm fairly free to get on our focus target, but stay close to LOS in case I get netted. I play around shield with push, root and los, hard stun, or a combination of these. I try to do the same with reflect, but if we're hard focusing the merc I'll dot up a near by target and vigilant thrust, then freezing force to avoid taking damage.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Andrew_Past

[drummerinthesun]

New guide soon, eta end of this month.

 

I was afraid you had left. Good to see you around still. Since I'm impatient, I've looked at Dongo's parse on parsely here http://parsely.io/parser/view/221132/0

 

His priority seems to be bleeds>slam>rav>chilling scream>hew>sunder

 

No uses of saber throw at all. Impale, FS, Shatter, Slam, and Sunder all strictly on cooldown. Ravage once every 13.7 seconds, chilling scream every 17.5 seconds, and don't waste a hew proc. Now I realize just because he has the top parse right now doesn't mean it's the best way to play the spec. What are your initial thoughts on it?

 

I really can't believe how they butchered the keystone ability of the spec (not to mention the horrible animation for jugg's), and at MOST, if all three hits crit in my current gear, it does 10k damage to me impale's 14k. Pitiful.

[GrandLordMenace]

I was afraid you had left. Good to see you around still. Since I'm impatient, I've looked at Dongo's parse on parsely here http://parsely.io/parser/view/221132/0

 

His priority seems to be bleeds>slam>rav>chilling scream>hew>sunder

 

No uses of saber throw at all. Impale, FS, Shatter, Slam, and Sunder all strictly on cooldown. Ravage once every 13.7 seconds, chilling scream every 17.5 seconds, and don't waste a hew proc. Now I realize just because he has the top parse right now doesn't mean it's the best way to play the spec. What are your initial thoughts on it?

 

I really can't believe how they butchered the keystone ability of the spec (not to mention the horrible animation for jugg's), and at MOST, if all three hits crit in my current gear, it does 10k damage to me impale's 14k. Pitiful.

 

 

I don't have a priority anymore. I just keep literally everything on CD. I'm on vacation and working on the guide, but I'll make a video soon.

 

I'm making the rotation to be as painless as possible when they inevitably will mess with chilling scream's damage, I honestly don't like the ability from a playstyle perspective so I've excised it as much as possible from my parses.

[GrandLordMenace]

Both iterations are now done, awaiting Dulfy to post them to her site after formatting.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Both iterations are now done, awaiting Dulfy to post them to her site after formatting.

 

\o/ Good man. Looking forward to reading.

[GrandLordMenace]

Linked! http://dulfy.net/2016/12/30/swtor-5-0-vigilance-guardian-pve-guide-by-rydarus/

[drummerinthesun]

Linked! http://dulfy.net/2016/12/30/swtor-5-0-vigilance-guardian-pve-guide-by-rydarus/

Just finished reading. I might make another grid chart to digest the addition of Vengeful Slam on CD similar to the one I made all those months ago in 3.x, which is also similar to how Oofalong presented his anni rotation as well. One thing that came to mind was the very first two abilities in the opener. I noticed one of the top parsers doing this in 4.0 sometime and I swapped over to it and here's why. Firstly, I've been using Saber throw>Sunder>rest of opener. This generates two extra rage (3+5 instead of 3+3), you can save enrage for later in the rotation, and is easily done on every boss in the game. You can saber throw and start running immediately if you're between 15-20m and be in 4m range by the time the third ability needs to be activated. This also activates the 2-piece set bonus immediately, rather than activating all of your hard hitting in succession and THEN using sunder to activate the 2-piece, effectively front-loading more burst damage. Thoughts?

 

EDIT: It's also unclear how you transition between the opener and the rotational blocks. Looking at your parse, it looks like the opener should be 14 GCD's, not 11. Your parse uses a Ravage and then Force Scream which moves you into Block 1 in your isolated cycles. The example opener stops at Vengeful Slam in the guide. I put it into an example that places Shatter at the beginning of each cycle, but you can still think of it in terms of cycles based around Impale, Scream, or Slam. It also takes the opener and breaks it into 6 GCDs that flow into a Scream cycle with optimized ability use. So it would look like this:

Saber Throw>Leap>Impale>Ravage>Slam>Shatter>

[scream>Hew>Impale>Sunder>Slam>Ravage>Scream>Shatter] where this section is Block 1 with optimized filler use

Block2>Block3>Block1>Repeat to Block2 in your block nomenclature.

 

I've made an image/google doc in which I've renamed the blocks so that Impale is block 1, Slam is block 2, and Scream is block 3 to make the opener flow into a logical first block.

 

http://imgur.com/7lhQDpb

 

Using the same nomenclature, I've placed Shatter at the beginning of each block because my brain thinks of shatter as the beginning of each block.

 

http://imgur.com/veI78FR

 

Both are here in a google doc if you'd like to copy/paste and mess around with it. Feel free to use this in the guide if it's helpful. This sort of chart really helped me learn the 3.0 iteration of Vengeance as well as Annihilation more recently, so if it can help anyone else, I'd love to be able to provide that for this dying community.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x0JeNy6A04hv2JE5l13aZDX6Y0QoJO-vI38e57BXaIY/edit?usp=sharing

Edited January 6, 2017 by drummerinthesun

[GrandLordMenace]

Just finished reading. I might make another grid chart to digest the addition of Vengeful Slam on CD similar to the one I made all those months ago in 3.x, which is also similar to how Oofalong presented his anni rotation as well. One thing that came to mind was the very first two abilities in the opener. I noticed one of the top parsers doing this in 4.0 sometime and I swapped over to it and here's why. Firstly, I've been using Saber throw>Sunder>rest of opener. This generates two extra rage (3+5 instead of 3+3), you can save enrage for later in the rotation, and is easily done on every boss in the game. You can saber throw and start running immediately if you're between 15-20m and be in 4m range by the time the third ability needs to be activated. This also activates the 2-piece set bonus immediately, rather than activating all of your hard hitting in succession and THEN using sunder to activate the 2-piece, effectively front-loading more burst damage. Thoughts?

 

EDIT: It's also unclear how you transition between the opener and the rotational blocks. Looking at your parse, it looks like the opener should be 14 GCD's, not 11. Your parse uses a Ravage and then Force Scream which moves you into Block 1 in your isolated cycles. The example opener stops at Vengeful Slam in the guide. I put it into an example that places Shatter at the beginning of each cycle, but you can still think of it in terms of cycles based around Impale, Scream, or Slam. It also takes the opener and breaks it into 6 GCDs that flow into a Scream cycle with optimized ability use. So it would look like this:

Saber Throw>Leap>Impale>Ravage>Slam>Shatter>

[scream>Hew>Impale>Sunder>Slam>Ravage>Scream>Shatter] where this section is Block 1 with optimized filler use

Block2>Block3>Block1>Repeat to Block2 in your block nomenclature.

 

I've made an image/google doc in which I've renamed the blocks so that Impale is block 1, Slam is block 2, and Scream is block 3 to make the opener flow into a logical first block.

 

http://imgur.com/7lhQDpb

 

Using the same nomenclature, I've placed Shatter at the beginning of each block because my brain thinks of shatter as the beginning of each block.

 

http://imgur.com/veI78FR

 

Both are here in a google doc if you'd like to copy/paste and mess around with it. Feel free to use this in the guide if it's helpful. This sort of chart really helped me learn the 3.0 iteration of Vengeance as well as Annihilation more recently, so if it can help anyone else, I'd love to be able to provide that for this dying community.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1x0JeNy6A04hv2JE5l13aZDX6Y0QoJO-vI38e57BXaIY/edit?usp=sharing

 

I wrote the cycles after I had the opener image made and frankly was too lazy to fix the opener image (I'd honestly prefer it to be shorter rather than longer, and use the cycles for the remainder of the "opener"). I like your image a ton though. When I get around to having the images remade I'll probably do something similar.

 

Bant's version of my cycles uses Shatter first, and I myself understand the rationale for that, my personal logic was simply "it's possibly easier for new player to understand a block if the block the ability is named after is the first ability in the block"

 

As for comments regarding the opener, eh? My honest thought around the opener is as long as you get Impale as the first core ability and continue with the opener from there, do whatever floats your boat. As long as you start with 6 focus (before enrage) or 12 focus (if you don't use enrage), it doesn't truly matter.

Edited January 6, 2017 by GrandLordMenace

[sharpfangjr]

Where can I find the information needed to apply this guide to Vengeance?

[GrandLordMenace]

Where can I find the information needed to apply this guide to Vengeance?

 

Dulfy has been slow about publishing the opposite faction. I technically have a google doc I can post, sec.

[RavengorII]

Hello fellow Warriors!

 

I am a juggernaut and I like playing Vengance Discipline. I have read Rydaru's guide and I find it very usefull. Sadly, I have a problem to interpret the rotation right. The part with the cycles is very unclear for me and its hard to understand. (Maybe because its in english xD) Can someone provide me with a full rotation, fills included and an clarification to it, like an explication with more detailes so I can understand it better?

 

I would be very gratefull!

[Luckygunslinger]

What.... Vengeance? What have they done to my baby?!

[Warik]

Dulfy has been slow about publishing the opposite faction. I technically have a google doc I can post, sec.

 

Do you still have this? Would like to read it, back after a long time and confused lol.

[GrandLordMenace]

Do you still have this? Would like to read it, back after a long time and confused lol.

 

Here ya go. It might have some errors, if you're unsure about something cross reference it with the Vigi one, but for the *most part* it should be up to date.

 

https://www.docdroid.net/DK28Hso/50vengeancejuggernautguide.pdf.html

Edited June 23, 2017 by GrandLordMenace

[Cilet]

Hail to all Sith Warriors,

 

i love playing the juggernaut with its Vengance Discipline. Just wanted to thank you Rydaru for this guide and your hard work. It is very usefull.

 

Rydaru

[thunder_saber]

@Rydarus what are the stats for pvp in vigilance that you are following and what augments ur using . And is the rotation that you have given for pve gud enough for pvp or there are changes in the rotation .

 

Also can you put the 248 gear stats for vigilance pve .

Edited August 13, 2017 by thunder_saber