He's just having a reversioncrisis

So I've tried everything and can't seem to explain it. Ever since 4.0 I've been having weird instances where in areas with high volumes of players spawning, or NPCs rendering, the game crashes, or plays the splash screen loading screen with the spinning wheel for about 5 seconds. It seems to happen a lot on fleet, warzones, operations, typically at the beginning of a warzone, and at the QT area on fleet. I've also had it happen mid guild ship summon, and it LOVES to happen during gharj in Eternity Vault.

Keep all 3 dots up. Doing only 2 is killing your numbers.

Where smash did enough damage on it's own to take away 65% of someone's health. MMMMHM.

Yes due to dotspread, but not everyone has them.

Also, Relevant. It's interesting to say the least, for dummy parsing anyway. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=8298262#post8298262

I don't think it's that exact, the top TOP end I think it matches or slightly exceeds mainstat, but averages DEFINITELY go up, and in many fights alacrity makes things a lot easier (Torque, for one), and Sword Squadron (not that it's difficult). when I started running it back in the day I went from a 4620 to a 4760 in about an hour, so yes it is an increase, the magnitude is dependent on the player.

Empirical evidence is everywhere. It takes 2 seconds to look at the yolo leaderboards, examine progression on classes and specs, and look up parses. Vengeance is parsing a 5.1 (ish). I have yet to see someone do a parse with a Defense Guardian that did more than 2.5k on a dummy. I'm positive 3k is possible, but I haven't seen it. Examine the facts: No Guardian DPS tanks have killed Revan HM No Focus Guardians / Rage Juggs have killed Revan HM 2, maybe 3 or 4, Vengeance Juggs / Vigilance Guardians have Revan HM kills. To date I have not heard of a Defense Guardian in DPS gear in the top 96 for Solo OR Group Ranked I have yet to see a single Defense Guardian or Immortal Juggernaut break 1.5 mil damage, OR more importantly, break 2k DPS, or even 1.5k DPS, in a warzone ever. A DPS tank would be viable if it did both moderately well, except, it doesn't. At all. It's infinitely inferior in damage, and barely superior in survivability, it's only advantage over Vengeance is a mediocre cooldown, but the loss of a short cooldown, and higher passive DR, and guard, but that just means anyone with a brain will aoe pressure and kill you both. You can't actually say a build is viable for all content if it isn't actually viable for all content. Extrapolating that it "works" for leveling so it must work for everything makes no sense. That's like saying a heavyweight beat up a 12 year old so therefore he must be fine at beating heavyweights. That's a logical fallacy. Somewhat decent evidence (though at risk of Ad grasping at straws, pure damage usually is more of a factor of high enemy healing than anything else in the case of matches with low kills but high damage) PVP Imagespam let's go! http://i.imgur.com/wem8fGH.jpg http://i.imgur.com/PbYaUJq.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Gi3nQz5.jpg http://i.imgur.com/sO8l0GO.png http://i.imgur.com/aQasN9j.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qWnnGue.png http://i.imgur.com/LU07uw6.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1dDesIQ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/C4FsLsZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/dPCCJwV.jpg

<Aisthesis> has killed Coratanni

Saster, I looked at your parse and found something interesting You don't seem to prioritize ravage/dots, at least not in the same way everyone else does. I notice you use a LOT more Vengeful Slam/ Vig thrust, more than any other player. I find that curious. You use Vengeful Slam every 12 seconds, I average every 25-30. You seem to delay overhead slash and blade storm a lot more as well. Not saying one of us is wrong, we could be both right, but I'm curious, do you have a reasoning for it? I'd expect the increased vig thrust would counteract or exceed the damage lost by DoT delays, and I'm tempted to see if maybe you've stumbled upon something insanely great.

Uhm, empirical evidence is not the same as a random generalization. Conclusions are reached from long term logic. These "in groups" you talk about don't exist. Guides for DPS tanking don't exist because no one runs DPS tanking in serious HM 60 progression content. There's no proof of it working, and there's little theoretical evidence, even in an isolated statistical format such as dummy parsing, so to make the argument that it's viable is simply false, until proven otherwise. Other players might be a bit more venomous about it, but you shouldn't come at people with little useful evidence and not expect them to shoot you down. Additionally, the ACTUAL survivability gain from a tank specialization is limited, when not taking gear into account. You gain Warding Call, Blade Barrier, a marginal amount of defense, and armor rating from stance and the 15% talent, but lose damage in spades AND gain threat in spades, considering most of the procs for Defense occur in Soresu form, using Shii-cho would complete the shot in the foot. Guardian Slash DOES hit like a truck, but that's one ability, and the rest of the damage is minimal at best. Even a 15k crit means nothing, even if it's AOE, if you do an extremely insignificant amount of damage afterwards. The only ability besides Guardian Slash that does damage would be Blade Storm which can crit for 9k in tank spec, but only once on a blue moon. The game MAY constantly update itself, but you'd be kidding yourself if the game constantly flips balance up on it's head. Defense plays virtually identically to how it played pre 3.0, minus the Warding Strike mechanic. Vengeance plays virtually identically to pre 3.0, except for the addition of DoTspread. Balance in TOR, at least since 3.0, has been mostly incremental.

You're mistaking general consensus for social groups or classes. The general HM raiding community has a general consensus, is that wrong? the general PVP community has reached a general way on how to pvp. There are differences and disagreements of course, but they aren't that significant. DPS tanking itself isn't anything new, but the insinuation that it's viable in any form of high end PVP or PVE content is new, and it runs contrary to the preestablished consensus. Sorry, but if you're going to give advice to players to respec to that role, you're going to face some opposition.

Agree for the most part, but that's capitalism. I disagree in that YES, WE ARE here to prove a point. How is our advice even RELEVANT in any way shape or form, if we aren't ready to prove that our advice works? Otherwise we become esoteric relics, driven by hearsay and drawn into random directions by unproven and untested theories. Maybe the threads where the topics have been argued are the wrong place, and I can agree with that, but the fact remains that misinformation HAS to be countered, and HAS to be rebutted. Simply put, the forums are a place not only for learning, but for discovery. Discovery requires experimentation, and experimentation requires temperance by conservatism. The mudslinging on the forum is simply an ugly facade of the simple truth that you cannot censor, or temper debate, no matter how outwardly ugly it is. The whole DPS tanking debate has gotten out of hand, and we're getting to the point where certain players are twisting and misquoting other players to the point where it's becoming disgusting. It's abhorrent that when someone presents a point of view, and that point of view is not popular, then suddenly a person jumps to the idea that they are being witch hunted for having different ideas? How can we as a class develop without actually challenging each others ideas? Right now, we have so called "advice" being given from all directions, from people who are both informed, and woefully misinformed. Granted, this has little bearing with a thread about which spec to pick for leveling, but the fact remains, these debates DO need to take place, and I DO think they should be public, but in their own thread. SOME of these bans are going out for the right reasons, but MANY are not. Players with a poor track record on the forums will naturally be scrutinized, and if the general consensus is that a certain idea is suboptimal, returning with the same idea and not expecting opposition is a little idiotic. I think a few things need to be made clear: What everyone's ideas ACTUALLY are for, PVE, PVP, leveling, RP (lawl), broken down into specific types, granked, yolos, NiM, regs, blah blah blah. Until we can reach a better form of codification and organization, this mudslinging is going to keep happening, because when you hand two people sticks and provoke an argument, people are gonna start swinging.

Not entirely true. Alacrity can screw things over if it's a buff that's temporary that does not affect the rotation on a long term basis, generally though, things tend to realign quickly, and passive alacrity works as it should. But yes, it's mostly true

I don't really care for reusables, the blue ones suffice for me, they are craftable in large amounts for very little and the duration is short so overwriting one doesn't feel bad when you swap specs. I still use reusable adrenals and medpacks and stims for when the fight doesn't matter much anymore. IMHO they need a system where overwriting the stim buff returns it to your inventory with the subtracted usage still remaining. Additionally, they should have a system where instead of refreshing a stim, the durations add up together, so you could stack multiple 8 hour stims for a 32 hour stim and not have to worry about it. The benefit of reusable stims besides being cost effective was that you could compulsively refresh it to never have the buff fall off mid fight, whereas regular stims, inevitably, someone forgets.

Grats!

It's Rydarus, don't let the name fool you. This is my brother's account. I focus on DoTspread. I use Awe as a interrupt, NOT to CC. I still run 8.8% alacrity or so and about 71% surge and like it a lot. I've done some granked and yolo ranked on Rydarus and Rykilus respectively, and I take True Harmony over Daunting Presence. IMHO I think Vengeance has the damage potential of hatred or madness, only we don't have long range DoTspreads, and we can be shut down with a well timed root (no, really.) Regardless, I'll still be playing the class even if it's nerfed to the ground.

M8, you're not worth focusing.

You've played it. Doesn't mean you're competent at it. Also I noticed you deleted Leonio, do you even play your guardian on Ebon hawk... PVP still pops within 5 minutes. Try again.

Gratsah

Pretty much this. Can't post on my main account right now, not going to say why . Also, Ebon Hawk is chock full of healers and turtle comps. It's one of the most aggressively flavor of the month servers in the entire game. Dalfurend, you have an enjin? You should totally add me. I have a few alts on Jedi covenant that now have my legacy, debating leveling a guardian offserver for more varied PVP

Please read my signature. U suck ballz. You're a disgrace to my class and I wish you would go play something that has as low of an IQ as you (in your case IQ stands for Idiocy Quota). If you were EVER in a raid group with me and joined my guild, I would immediately /gquit, chuck my server on Pot5, and if you ever followed me, dedicate my life to finding you and killing you in OW PVP or Warzones. After the last round of Guardian Class Rep questions and your brainless, idiotic, and completely unequivocally stupid ideas, I am sure that the prior would happen in that situation. I firmly believe you are nothing but a gigantic troll, and your grammar leaves so much to be desired I'm fairly sure infant 2 year olds could write better, heck even people who don't speak english speak better english than you. I hope you get banned for your trolling, because you are a blight to the community and a complete idiot. The odds of you typing a coherent sentence, or even a letter, is smaller than Michael Bay directing an explosion free movie. Please leave. On behalf of the RNG QQer, **** Sniper, Lord of Wah, go **** yourself. Have a great day.

Oh no I have a 72 mainhand XD. If i had a 78 mainhand and was only doing 3200 I'd stab myself. My gear is nowhere near some of you guys XD. I have full 72 armorings with 1 78 set bonus piece and 2 78 enhancements and all 78 mods. The rest of my gear is all 72s. I've never gotten any nightmare gear at all or the like. I just make do with what I have.

Lets rail this thread back on track. The Rng fix is not the end of the line but it has brought us from the claws of death. Its kind of like giving a starving man a sandwich. He's not gonna die but he's still in danger of nutrient deficiency. We need to redo our concerns and questions. I'd like to see if one weekend when the PTS drops if all of the major guardians here could meet and do a few rounds of parsing/1v1 duels and warzones etc as they come up to be able to test these changes and develop our new questions.

We have a whiles to go. Right now my best parse is barely 3200 (My gear really needs work). I hope to with the patch get to 3300 as I've never had a higher than 15 second per MS.