Bioware says NO LFD TOOL.

[SGRX]

Quote removed for brevity

 

Well put. I couldn't have said it better.

[Nulzero]

Huh, this thread is a deja vu...

 

...where have I heard all this before...

 

...oh right, in Rift.

 

Guess what? The whiners got a LFD tool in Rift and you can see what it did to that game.

 

The same thing will happen here. Making the vocal minority happy in MMOs is top priority for these companies.

 

Rift killed rift, not the LFD tool. I played wow long before LFG tool. I've always played in guilds where I could get guild groups a lot, but I still pugged a lot. I always played as a tank or a healer. Even though Ihad all those advantages I still consider the LFG tool to be one of the BEST things that have happened to wow.

 

Waiting to find someone, to wait to run to a dungeon, to wait forever or disband if someone dc's or the group leader has to kick someone, or worse if the group leader is a douche and you have to drop and regroup is NOT FUN.

 

All the time wasted doing that is time not having fun actually playing the game. I will occasionally have bad people in a dungeon usually a vote kick solves that issue fairly easily. You may occasionally lose a piece of gear to someone who ninja's but you have so many more opportunities for that piece of gear due to the fact that you aren't waiting in a hub for 2 hours BEFORE you even get a party formed that the inconvenience is offset.

 

All of the issues with an LFG tool happen w/out an LFG tool. People will still ninja, or d/c or roll on your upgrade even though they can't really use it or act like morons. It will just happen a lot less, because instead of being able to get into 20 dungeons a week you get into 5.

 

Sure, there may be a few less opportunities to find good people to add to my friends list so that I can have a list of people to bypass the sitting around looking for a group, but the entire purpose of that list to me was made obsolete by the LFG tool.

 

I think people against the LFG are either the masochists that think that making things annoying is equal to making things challenging or rewarding somehow because you had to put up with the annoyance, people who think that doing it the "hard" way somehow makes them better, or are simply remembering "the old days" with some kind of rose colored nostalgia glasses.

 

If you think its a lore issue, we're in a world with interstellar communication and travel. A jobs board is out of scope?

 

 

TL:DR Bad groups happen, the time saved not waiting hours for a group outweighs the bad groups which still happen they're just spaced out because you can't get as many groups. Spend time playing the game not spamming general chat.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Nulzero

[Baaddare]

Then don't use it. What in the world is with you people? Just because someone hands you hammer doesn't mean you have to build an ark.

 

you seem to think that a LFD tool does not effect the people not using it. What happens is that there are less people out in the world thus the worlds seem dead and that does effect the people not using it. Let alone the effects a x server lfd has.

[Orila]

They need to atleast add a server wide LFG channel like in Aion.Sitting around for hours spamming /1 is stupid,I cant quest/gather/pvp.Its garbage and I'm quitting untill they fix this.

[Baaddare]

Sigh. I play on a server thats always on Very Heavy or Full and im already at the point where I can spend an hour spamming /1 for a group and I end up never getting a group together. And I play a healer :/. They could at least do what Rift did and made it so its the only the server that gets put in a queue than work its way up to muti server queue. People who say the LFD kills interaction/community is an idiot. Yea spamming /1 is such awesome interaction/community woowhoo! :/.

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT USE IT. You go ahead and spam /1 all you want while I can go have fun having almost no wait time to get into a flashpoint.

 

I find this very odd as i never have an issue looking for a group. The lonest I have waited for a FP was 10 minutes but usually it is 3-5 minutes. I use the current LFG tool and flag myself LFG and place a comment as to what i am looking for. When i am forming a group I go there to look for people to fill in the group. So tell me whats the difference between that and a LFD on ya you do not need to spend the 5 minutes it takes to quick travel to a hub jump on your ship and land at the fleet for a FP or the 5 minutes to run across a planet using taxies or your speeder.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Baaddare

[acheros]

I find this very odd as i never have an issue looking for a group. The lonest I have waited for a FP was 10 minutes but usually it is 3-5 minutes. I use the current LFG tool and flag myself LFG and place a comment as to what i am looking for. When i am forming a group I go there to look for people to fill in the group.

 

Just because YOU dont have an issue, doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

 

Do you have any disease? i hope not. Does that mean people dont have diseases? Of course they do.

[Crogga]

I just checked to see when my sub renews. I'll give them a month. By then I should get a toon to 50. If I'm spending 2 hours spamming for a group and the current system is still the same by then, I'll more than likely leave until it's a better system.

 

I'm not going to waste my time with old school time sinks when there are games out there that allow you to wait less time less effort and do fun things while I wait. No reason to go through this crap.

 

The game is cool in many respects but it needs to stay ahead of the curve in many others.

 

In the meantime I'll be skipping flashpoints like alot of other people are doing when I'm not making any headway into getting a group.

[Barracudastr]

you seem to think that a LFD tool does not effect the people not using it. What happens is that there are less people out in the world thus the worlds seem dead and that does effect the people not using it. Let alone the effects a x server lfd has.

 

Well according to those people they have the social framwork/guild to get groups already so why would it affect them.... according to the arguements against LFD in this thread anyways.

[Barracudastr]

I find this very odd as i never have an issue looking for a group. The lonest I have waited for a FP was 10 minutes but usually it is 3-5 minutes. I use the current LFG tool and flag myself LFG and place a comment as to what i am looking for. When i am forming a group I go there to look for people to fill in the group. So tell me whats the difference between that and a LFD on ya you do not need to spend the 5 minutes it takes to quick travel to a hub jump on your ship and land at the fleet for a FP or the 5 minutes to run across a planet using taxies or your speeder.

 

Want a cookie not all servers are the same, I have had to skip heroics, cant get groups for hammer or athiss.

 

I literally sat in cor for 2 hours spamming for groups..... tonight I went to the FP's actual entry points.... not a single person was there btw.

 

And there were only 40people at fleet..... so i couldnt find people in the main city with 300 some people on both channels.... i go to fleet and theres 40 in chan 1 I spam for a good hour looking for people to join me.... I get a tank.... 30 min later no heals no dps tank has to go. yay i get to start again I just effectivly wasted my play time for the night DOING NOTHING.

 

Great system? No.

[Gelos]

These people in this forum can argue till they are blue in the face about social engineering and using developer power to try to encourage or force certain player behavior all they want. The simple fact is, no LFG translates to fewer players experiencing your content and ultimately playing your game. Period.

 

I completely agree. I am also astounded at the "play it our way" attitude of developers, more so that this comes from Bioware.

 

Forcing players to do what you want them to never works out.

 

If Bioware really wanted to know what people thought, they would use their In-Game survey system and pop up a message explaining what a LFD is, how it would work, and asking for feedback. Just as they did during the Beta sessions with other issues.

 

What people also do not realise is all the time you say you are WASTING is MONEY that you are giving to the Developers. The dozens of minutes across hundreds of thousands of users adds up to more PROFIT for developers at the end of the day.

 

Looking for a Dungeon becomes a Timesink. Just like running around constantly and criss crossing zones is a Timesink.

 

Subscription based MMORPGS make Money from Timesinks, and that more than anything else is the reason for several of the annoyances and obtuse design decisions that we see in this gamespace that we would never accept in our Single Player games.

 

And for those that do not understand what a Timesink is:

 

In massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs), time sinks are a method of increasing the time needed by players to do certain tasks, hopefully causing them to subscribe for longer periods of time.[2] Players may use the term disparagingly to describe a simplistic and time-consuming aspect of gameplay, possibly designed to keep players playing longer without significant benefit.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Gelos

[Engleheart]

you people are funny...Normal DPS queue in wow is like 30-45s on a average day maybe a little less on weekends, but not much. Now, much like in wow, its not hard to find a group when you heal, cause Healers rule the mmo world

 

 

 

MWHAHAHAAHAHAHA

 

 

 

Laugh with me my healing breathern

 

 

 

 

 

MWHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

 

 

AYAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[NYzMikey]

I love how Bioware says that LFPvP tool is acceptable and a LFD tool is not. I want someone to explain that reasoning. PvP and flashpoints both require a level of coordination.

 

Is someone that wants to do a flashpoint a different type of creature compared to pvpers in Bioware's eyes?

 

If a LFPvP tool exists then a LFD tool should too.

[Engleheart]

I completely agree. I am also astounded at the "play it our way" attitude of developers, more so that this comes from Bioware.

 

Forcing players to do what you want them to never works out.

 

If Bioware really wanted to know what people thought, they would use their In-Game survey system and pop up a message explaining what a LFD is, how it would work, and asking for feedback. Just as they did during the Beta sessions with other issues.

 

What people also do not realise is all the time you say you are WASTING is MONEY that you are giving to the Developers. The dozens of minutes across hundreds of thousands of users adds up to more PROFIT for developers at the end of the day.

 

Looking for a Dungeon becomes a Timesink. Just like running around constantly and criss crossing zones is a Timesink.

 

Subscription based MMORPGS make Money from Timesinks, and that more than anything else is the reason for several of the annoyances and obtuse design decisions that we see in this gamespace that we would never accept in our Single Player games.

 

And for those that do not understand what a Timesink is:

 

In massively multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPGs), time sinks are a method of increasing the time needed by players to do certain tasks, hopefully causing them to subscribe for longer periods of time.[2] Players may use the term disparagingly to describe a simplistic and time-consuming aspect of gameplay, possibly designed to keep players playing longer without significant benefit.

 

 

This and, well http://www.psychology.uiowa.edu/faculty/wasserman/glossary/skinner%20box.html

[Raijinvince]

This is good news.. Lfd is a terrible tool

 

The main gripe I have with statements like this is that you're not opening your mind to how a LFD tool does not have to be even remotely similar to one used in any other game. It just makes me sad to see a concept tossed away because of it's implementation and implications in other games.

 

I know if someone's actually reading all of my posts in this thread I sound like a broken record, but a LFD tool doesn't have to be bad just because it CAN be bad.

[Pinely]

LFG tools increase accessibility and allow more instances to be run overall. People don't interact as much when looking for groups, but if any of you actually played WoW pre-RDF for more than a month, you'd know that people barely communicated with each other anyway. This idea that everyone chatted with each other and made friends is nonsense. A select amount of players with time on their hands made a lot of friends, but also a lot of enemies and blacklists. Most players never set foot into a dungeon because waiting in Shattrath for an hour is a waste of time when you only play for an hour or two each night.

 

Right now, SWTOR is all sunshine and rainbows because the servers are packed to the gills. A month from now, it'll probably still be fine. Two months? Three months? Then you're going to start seeing wait times increase. Then you'll also begin to understand how only a small community of the total server actually runs dungeons. Not to mention the suck of having to group with someone you don't like simply because there isn't another group out there. Oh, and you'll be doing it all while running circles at Fleet. And you'll get groups with outright bad players that don't have the skill or gear to complete the harder instances. All of that for a chance (a small chance) of making a friend or two doing a run.

 

Not developing an LFG Tool is a mistake. Not a fatal one, but good luck developing an endgame that is as engrossing as the competition while people spend 30+ minutes waiting for a Flashpoint. We've got endless rage about 15 minute server queues, do you really think those same players are going to patiently wait for a group? Or are they going to find something else to do?

[Nicarras]

At least for the foreseeable future anyway, which is just fine by me. Read and weep:

 

 

 

Stephen Reid:

 

We're aware of this desire, but we actually believe that finding others on the same planet as you encourages social interaction a bit more than a general 'group finder'. We're not saying it'll never, ever happen but again, not high priority right now.

 

Kudos to Bioware for not giving in. I won't be so crass as to tell players who want this to go back to WoW, but I will point out that you now have a clear choice.

 

 

It's needed this day and age. Good luck dps classes sitting around and not doing anything because nobody needs you. All the tanks and healers have dps friends and dont need you.

 

Rift saw that it was such a mistake to launch without LFD they patched it in immediately.

[Turando]

People who say the LFD kills interaction/community is an idiot.

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT USE IT. You go ahead and spam /1 all you want while I can go have fun having almost no wait time to get into a flashpoint.

 

Besides calling others who disagree with you an idiot, do you truly understand the argument against an LFD? LFD kills communities because they take a major group oriented task and completely eliminates the need to communicate at all. And since grinding high level instances is usually the gateway to raiding/ops, it turns a MAJOR component of endgame into MMO-less experience.

[acheros]

Besides calling others who disagree with you an idiot, do you truly understand the argument against an LFD? LFD kills communities because they take a major group oriented task and completely eliminates the need to communicate at all. And since grinding high level instances is usually the gateway to raiding/ops, it turns a MAJOR component of endgame into MMO-less experience.

 

it.

does.

not.

kill

communties.

 

for proof go back and read ANY OF MY POSTS ON THIS THREAD.

[Nicarras]

Spamming general for a group for long periods of time is a terrible way to spend your time in game. LFD let's you get to what you are paying for, it enables people to play the game instead of waiting around.

[Nulzero]

it.

does.

not.

kill

communties.

 

for proof go back and read ANY OF MY POSTS ON THIS THREAD.

 

It does if your idea of community is

 

/1 LFG <instance> Need Heals and DPS

30 minutes later

 

/1 LFG <instance Now need tank and DPS

 

30 minutes later

 

/1 LFG <instance> need tank and healer

 

/1 Good night everyone enjoyed spending the time hanging out in general chat with you all maybe tomorrow we can get a group!

 

Seriously like I said in wow I always played a tank or healer and there were nights that I spent all my play time spamming for instances w/out success. Success depends on server population and hour of the day, which is why server only LFGs don't solve the issue either. Poor low pop server people get screwed.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Nulzero

[mguidry]

I have to agree. Stating LFG for X in general doesn't promote social interaction in any meaningful way that I've found. Also, it should be kept in mind that once the bulk of the players start getting to the higher level content, its going to become increasingly difficult for newer players to find groups for the lower level content. Now while I don't feel that a cross sever LFG tool is needed I do feel that a server wide LFG tool would allow players an easier time to find groups for said content.

[Teliko]

It doesn't need to abe cross-server like WoW, but not having one in an age when every MMO has one in some form isn't smart.

 

TOR is about doing your story and seeing the galaxy, sitting in the Fleet spamming /1 for a group is a big step backwards from that idea. Why do a Flashpoint when you could actually be doing things in the story?

[wezzan]

I find this very odd as i never have an issue looking for a group. The lonest I have waited for a FP was 10 minutes but usually it is 3-5 minutes. I use the current LFG tool and flag myself LFG and place a comment as to what i am looking for. When i am forming a group I go there to look for people to fill in the group. So tell me whats the difference between that and a LFD on ya you do not need to spend the 5 minutes it takes to quick travel to a hub jump on your ship and land at the fleet for a FP or the 5 minutes to run across a planet using taxies or your speeder.

 

Let me guess you are playing at peak hours? come back after you have tried getting a grp for a flashpoint at 4 in the morning or hell just some1 to join you on a 2man heroic mission. You end up spamming /1 lfg XX for 30mins thereby pissing off all the players that might have wanted to grp with you.

[mguidry]

It doesn't need to abe cross-server like WoW, but not having one in an age when every MMO has one in some form isn't smart.

 

TOR is about doing your story and seeing the galaxy, sitting in the Fleet spamming /1 for a group is a big step backwards from that idea. Why do a Flashpoint when you could actually be doing things in the story?

 

Which arguably seems to be becoming the case. From what I've seen, people who have issues finding groups (be it heroics or flashpoints) tend to go find things to do else where. Why that's all fine and well for some, it will negatively impact the gaming experience for many, not to mention leave damn good content unused by those who couldn't find a group.

Edited December 25, 2011 by mguidry

[Crogga]

Besides calling others who disagree with you an idiot, do you truly understand the argument against an LFD? LFD kills communities because they take a major group oriented task and completely eliminates the need to communicate at all. And since grinding high level instances is usually the gateway to raiding/ops, it turns a MAJOR component of endgame into MMO-less experience.

 

Not true at all. It just allows people to communicate where it matters most- during the encounter. The idea that spamming for a group somehow makes a community is a myth.

Outside of encounters the true 'community' will always be the guild or friends.