How do you think the change to Alacrity will affect pvp?

[Haystak]

SO this huge fantastic change will turn a 3 second channel into a 2,7 second channel if you stack it and sacrifice power/surge/Crit etc for it?

 

No 9% is the current max(somewhere near it really). New cap will be 25%, which will change a 3 second channel to a 2.5 your clobal cooldown from 1.5 to 1.15, or one extra attack every 5 global cooldowns...etc

 

Granted it will still come at the cost of a lot of surge.

 

EDIT:Removed a section.

 

Overall if they keep it it looks like having a few pieces with alacrity will be worth it though.

 

Judging from previous attempts though, I fully expect it to be back where it is today. The devs have shown to choose the easier of paths when dealing with balancing, and I dont think they have the time, and manpower to balance another stat so that every class can use it.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Haystak

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Although I have yet to see concrete details, the devs have stated they are increasing the effect of alacrity stats and have implied it will be possible to stack as much as 25% alacrity through gear related stats. The problem is that even 25% alacrity will be a net DPS loss if you have to give up all of the power you currently stack to get it.

 

You would only lose Surge or Accuracy, Power is not in direct competition with Alacrity for anything but Augments...

[TezMoney]

No 9% is the current max(somewhere near it really). New cap will be 25%, which will change a 3 second channel to a 2.5 your clobal cooldown from 1.5 to 1.15, or one extra attack every 5 global cooldowns...etc

 

Sorry couldn't help but be a stickler for the maths... it's actually 1.125 GCD, which you can round to 1.13 and that actually gives you an extra attack after the third GCD. You're points stand though, procs classes will benefit quite a bit, along with dotters and healers. But so will burst melee, because it allows them to get a few extra attacks during roots and stuns.

 

Ultimately, as you said, it all depends on the balance between that and what you give up in crit bonus.

Edited November 20, 2014 by TezMoney

[Ld-Siris]

It won't be that big of a difference. It will just slightly speed every thing up. Remember the more speed you have the more resource drain you have. As of right now the resource regain does not keep up with the speed from alacrity. Add the fact that CDs will be lower it will be even more of a drain. I did some testing a while back on my merc.

 

With that said since the soft cap for surge is 70% min maxing isn't that hard. Right now my op heals has 70% surge with 6.88% (4.88 from gear and 2 from talent) alacrity. I find that it is very useful as an op heals because every about 12 seconds it's an extra GCD.

[Vodrin]

It won't be that big of a difference. It will just slightly speed every thing up. Remember the more speed you have the more resource drain you have. As of right now the resource regain does not keep up with the speed from alacrity. Add the fact that CDs will be lower it will be even more of a drain. I did some testing a while back on my merc.

 

With that said since the soft cap for surge is 70% min maxing isn't that hard. Right now my op heals has 70% surge with 6.88% (4.88 from gear and 2 from talent) alacrity. I find that it is very useful as an op heals because every about 12 seconds it's an extra GCD.

 

Alacrity will also boost resource regen in 3.0, so your first paragraph will not really apply. As for the second, that is probably what most players will do with alacrity (if anything). I can't see any amount of alacrity making up for dumping 25% crit damage bonus with regards to burst and auto crits, but I could be wrong about that.

[L-RANDLE]

Alacrity will also boost resource regen in 3.0, so your first paragraph will not really apply. As for the second, that is probably what most players will do with alacrity (if anything). I can't see any amount of alacrity making up for dumping 25% crit damage bonus with regards to burst and auto crits, but I could be wrong about that.

 

This is why I say it really depends on the curve of the formula versus surge. At a minimum they should match, but I would actually have it more favorable becauseq the whole premise is sacrificing burst for sustained.

[DarthOvertone]

After the first Alacrity change, I experimented with it pretty heavily to see the benefit on my Sniper. The only thing I really noticed was that my energy pool was constantly flush. This was really helpful in long PvE fights, but mattered very little in PvP combat.

 

However, the new tweaks they are proposing this time around seem more significant. The emphasis on a direct correlation between the amount of alacrity you stack and the speed at which everything runs is significantly better than what we have now. It looks great on paper, but I'm going to test it thoroughly before actually committing to it.

 

If the new alacrity does work as proposed, every class will need to stack some alacrity as I'm sure there will be some sort of GCD sweet spot that will be advantageous for all.

[Ld-Siris]

Alacrity will also boost resource regen in 3.0, so your first paragraph will not really apply. As for the second, that is probably what most players will do with alacrity (if anything). I can't see any amount of alacrity making up for dumping 25% crit damage bonus with regards to burst and auto crits, but I could be wrong about that.

 

You do know alacrity boost resource regen right now right? That was the whole point of my first paragraph. The regen was part of the last alacrity overhaul.

[Metthew]

Well, alacrity will now imply shorter defensive cooldowns. With %20 alacrity, I could Covered Escape every 16s instead of 20s, entrench (on a Lethality) every 48s instead of 60s, Leg Shot every 9.5s instead of 12s and so on. On Marksmanship alacrity might actually might actually get me near %100 entrench uptime (with the utilities change maybe on any sniper spec).

 

I intend to try stacking it one of my snipers just to see how strong this defensive/utility boost will be.

[Ycoga]

Just cuz why not ima make an AMR of if I stacked full alacrity right now and see what I can get for reduct times

 

 

13.4% with alac everything and then throw in any bonuses the class may have

 

Call me back when you reach 44% alacrity on a sage / sorc character; which I did a few years ago already.

 

Back to the present day: alacrity and accuracy will both increase in popularity in 3.0. MinMaxing power / mainstat will still provide big hits, but you risk wasting them if accuracy is low; not to mention things like taunts missing.

 

Alacrity has always been powerful, kiddies - it's just that now that BW has finally fixed it by making it reduce cooldowns, you'lll see it around more often.

 

By the way, the changes you'res seeing to off-gcd abilities is surely tied to alacrity changes as well, because (due to lag) fast insta-attacks can get lost in the ether; so the devs are lengthening windows between multiple actions to maximise ability reliability.

 

I logged a bug with BW years ago and sent them my spec at the time, where I was doing 44% alac on 1.5 second GCD. Their first fix was to make alacirty reduce GCD, now they will make it reduce cooldowns. Finally, it will be the stat they always meant it to be. Took them LONG ENOUGH!

Edited November 21, 2014 by Ycoga

[Ashuranrx]

No 9% is the current max(somewhere near it really). New cap will be 25%, which will change a 3 second channel to a 2.5 your clobal cooldown from 1.5 to 1.15, or one extra attack every 5 global cooldowns...etc

 

Where did you get this info from? Because if it is true, then Alacrity will give more DPS boost than any other stats in the game including crit, power, and main stats. And that is not balanced. I strongly doubt BW will break the balance between stats.

[znihilist]

Where did you get this info from? Because if it is true, then Alacrity will give more DPS boost than any other stats in the game including crit, power, and main stats. And that is not balanced. I strongly doubt BW will break the balance between stats.

 

It is really not, it is a multiplicative stat that is affected by diminishing returns. While it is true that every 1% of alacrity will be 1% increase in DPS, you have to take into account that you still need to sacrifice something for that. Not to mention the DR will make you hit a roadblock really fast.

 

As for your main point, well we already have a stat that is somewhat-overpowered. It is called accuracy, accuracy (at least in PvE) is the most important stat to have (until cap). Beside I don't think that's a fair judgment of alacrity. For the last two years people stacked surge and power (or at least in the last year), this change in 3.0 is going to slightly change the priority. The way it looks like now, you are going to need some crit, some surge, and some alacrity to be optimal. Honestly I think it is going to take a long time after release for us to find out what's the best stat distribution for any discipline.

[Aetideus]

Well, alacrity will now imply shorter defensive cooldowns. With %20 alacrity, I could Covered Escape every 16s instead of 20s, entrench (on a Lethality) every 48s instead of 60s, Leg Shot every 9.5s instead of 12s and so on. On Marksmanship alacrity might actually might actually get me near %100 entrench uptime (with the utilities change maybe on any sniper spec).

 

I intend to try stacking it one of my snipers just to see how strong this defensive/utility boost will be.

 

If that stands for ticks also, correct me if I am wrong, how a madness sorc will be stopped with 20% alacrity, eg Force lightning every 1.6 secs?

Edited November 21, 2014 by Aetideus

[TezMoney]

If that stands for ticks also, correct me if I am wrong, how a madness sorc will be stopped with 20% alacrity, eg Force lightning every 1.6 secs?

 

Well plenty of classes have a way to break the slow effect and LOS. Not to mention if the sorc has 60% crit multiplier, they certainly aren't hitting as hard as they are now at 76%

[foxmob]

Well plenty of classes have a way to break the slow effect and LOS. Not to mention if the sorc has 60% crit multiplier, they certainly aren't hitting as hard as they are now at 76%

 

are they changing the DR on surge too? cuz I thought that didn't kick in until ~75%, meaning there's still not much incentive to go alac > surge until that threshold is met?

[TezMoney]

are they changing the DR on surge too? cuz I thought that didn't kick in until ~75%, meaning there's still not much incentive to go alac > surge until that threshold is met?

 

No. The DR in reality is at around 25%, or just under 600 surge rating. You get 50% free and then another 1% from your companion.

 

I said 60% as a ball park of what the sorc would lose in surge to get that much alacrity.

Edited November 22, 2014 by TezMoney

[DarthOvertone]

are they changing the DR on surge too? cuz I thought that didn't kick in until ~75%, meaning there's still not much incentive to go alac > surge until that threshold is met?

 

I thought the DR on Surge started at 72% and then spiked hard at 75%...could be wrong though.

[warstory]

On live now u can get alac up to 10% , can someone confirm that 25% is possible in buffed by skills cause that is a game changer for me. I was going to be stoping my sorc for good but if 25% is the new cap I may change my mind

[TezMoney]

On live now u can get alac up to 10% , can someone confirm that 25% is possible in buffed by skills cause that is a game changer for me. I was going to be stoping my sorc for good but if 25% is the new cap I may change my mind

 

On the live stream for merc/pt the character they used had 25% alacrity

[Metthew]

On the live stream for merc/pt the character they used had 25% alacrity

Then they did soften up the diminishing returns for alacrity. Rejoice folks.

[khsolo]

Then they did soften up the diminishing returns for alacrity. Rejoice folks.

 

And that means exactly what compared to discussion at hand?

 

Ill love to get alacrity if that means my dps will be higher if not well there is no use for it

[Metthew]

And that means exactly what compared to discussion at hand?

 

Ill love to get alacrity if that means my dps will be higher if not well there is no use for it

If you're going for pure DPS, alacrity may become more valuable than surge in terms of expected sustained DPS. In terms of expectation value of burst damage, you'll probably want surge/accuracy as tertiary stats only.

 

However, if you're PvP'ing and if alacrity also decreases defensive cooldowns, it becomes an even more valuable resource that can boost survivability by increasing uptimes of DCD's. So its valuation may go beyond how much it increases your DPS. For example, if I have 45s cooldown on entrench as a Marksmanship sniper, and I stack %25 alacrity (not even factoring in a possible sniper's volley at activation), I will bring the cooldown of entrench down to 31.5s. For the record, the theoretical maximum sustained time of entrench is 29s for Marksmanship snipers. This is a +90% uptime of CC immunity.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Metthew

[HaoZhao]

It would be a lot easier to talk about these things if we knew the exact stats of the new level 60 PVP gear and knew how much alacrity you can get from a single mod/enhancement, and when the diminishing returns start coming in. 25% alacrity would be a lot less impressive if you had to use up every mod and enhancement slot to achieve it.

[Technohic]

If you're going for pure DPS, alacrity may become more valuable than surge in terms of expected sustained DPS. In terms of expectation value of burst damage, you'll probably want surge/accuracy as tertiary stats only.

 

However, if you're PvP'ing and if alacrity also decreases defensive cooldowns, it becomes an even more valuable resource that can boost survivability by increasing uptimes of DCD's. So its valuation may go beyond how much it increases your DPS. For example, if I have 45s cooldown on entrench as a Marksmanship sniper, and I stack %25 alacrity (not even factoring in a possible sniper's volley at activation), I will bring the cooldown of entrench down to 31.5s. For the record, the theoretical maximum sustained time of entrench is 29s for Marksmanship snipers. This is a +90% uptime of CC immunity.

 

Im thinking of sniper spec as ENG with less wait for EP and SOS with the bomblets for the burst phase. With it hitting quicker, it will be more sudden and not as easy to get out of SOS fire. Not to mention plasma probe would be intensified for the constant DPS pressure, causing a real area denial tool. Entrench being shorter will be nice as you then also have EMP discharge to reset it, and having that on a shorter CD will works wonder if it still resets other abilities.

[Metthew]

Im thinking of sniper spec as ENG with less wait for EP and SOS with the bomblets for the burst phase. With it hitting quicker, it will be more sudden and not as easy to get out of SOS fire. Not to mention plasma probe would be intensified for the constant DPS pressure, causing a real area denial tool. Entrench being shorter will be nice as you then also have EMP discharge to reset it, and having that on a shorter CD will works wonder if it still resets other abilities.

Yeah, can see that happening too. Was just commenting on my spec of expertise - I just started leveling an Engineering sniper so don't really know what it entails.

 

What I am afraid of is a future nerf to snipers as a result, while if this leads to OP-ness it would be because the alacrity stat changes were too strong. But I guess it's a bit too early to speculate about that, nobody here even talks about how alacrity might benefit their class beyond the pure DPS aspect.