Game Update 3.0 Class Changes: Sentinel + Marauder

[ZackyFeet]

I really don't see the big issue. Nothing was really nerfed, I think crippling throw did horrible dps and I'm glad they put that in leg slash THAT is acually useful as well as the de-healing buff thing. We haven't even tried the game with the new changes yet....

[Aldael]

Lets think about changes announced (since they are not the full battery we can only especulate if this are good or bad):

 

- Sentinels no longer have access to the Riposte ability,

Good one, since no competitive sentinel (pve or pvp) would use it, not even put in bars.

- Crippling Throw has been removed .

Effect now is on leg slash, i would prefer the opposite change (i like more the animation on crippling that leg slash), also i prefer the ranged version(10m talented for 4m) (we can hope they change the idea, not very likely, but...)

 

- all Sentinels will have access to the following two passive abilities :Focused slash and Valor

Since almost everyone took those talents it seems logical to do so.

 

- Watchman spec

new passive skill that makes their Juyo Form and Merciless stacks build up twice as fast (this seems nice)

skill that allows them to spread some of their burning effects to targets damaged by their Force Sweep (seems nice)

new ability (new burn): Force Melt

 

3 Dots to care about, and merciless slash buff to take into account (could be difficult to track them all at first)

 

- Combat spec

passive ability that reduces the focus consumed by Blade Rush and Cyclone Slash by 1 each, during Zen. (nice but we are cautious if this is enough to burst damage)

passive ability that automatically triggers an Ataru Form attack on all targets damaged by Cyclone Slash (nice for aoe damage, since right now Cyclone slash is almost a waste of focus)

Force Health has wiggled its way over to Combat from the Concentration (formerly known as Focus) discipline to help the Combat discipline with focus generation. (this has conflicted feelings, nice to get more focus, but the changes means we are gonna be more easily focus starved? Dont like that idea)

Clashing Blast (substitute to blade storm, nothing to say here, at least until we see animation)

Precision Slash no longer ignores the global cooldown, but as a result, it now deals much more damage and increases armor penetration for 6 seconds instead of just 4.5 seconds (this is a reset to previous state of the skill, we will have to relearn to use it)

 

Also mention to alacrity changes, i think the spec will use it in a very effective way (especulating).

 

- Concentration spec

Focused Burst: Blasts the enemy target with a powerful burst of Force energy, dealing kinetic damage.(new skill)

Concentrated Slice: Slices the target for significant weapon damage. Attacks with both weapons if dual wielding. (new skill)

 

not much info here, we will have to wait livestream to congratulate or complain (more likely last one) ourselves.

 

 

- Utilities

 

Not very fond of them, i think other classes get better ones.

[Okamakiri]

LOL,WoW here I come

 

Unfortunately, WoW warriors were dumbed down years ago.

[Erithe]

I would much prefer to keep my throw abilities on my Knight and Warrior than what we're being given: 1. The animation is just great fun and 2. it's actually more useful for adds. Please don't take away my ability to throw my light sabers.

 

Otherwise, I'll have to see how the rest plays out.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Erithe

[TheSupaCoopa]

In general is this reducing the number of attacks available to marauders. It seems that skills are being removed and the new skills share cool downs.

 

From all the 'discipline' changes it feels a little like the combat is being dumbed down. If we take carnage for example one of the few reactionary attacks retaliation is being removed so you don't even have to watch the combat to worry about your rotation, also removing the only bleed available so you no longer need to think about maintaining the bleed effect and reapply if cleansed.

 

If the plan is to reduce combat into a system where macros are the preferred method of maximizing damage what is the plan behind this. Is combat felt to be too demanding that you have to pay attention to whats happening and people should just be focused on the rotation? Is it felt that combat is too complex for the target audience? What is the target audience for the combat?

It's not "dumbing down". It's streamlining, cutting out the unnecessary fat. Not everyone wants to have over 50 keybinds.

 

-Duran'del

Edited November 19, 2014 by TheSupaCoopa

[Ashuranrx]

So how do you like the melee changes, dear MMO professors?

Btw the guardian changes will be in the same pathetic manner.

 

Not true. Guardians/Juggs will be getting more gap closer and speed boost. They will have no problem keeping up with range. And they still have saber reflect if they are caught off guard.

[Ashuranrx]

Wow, you are really overreacting. You haven't even seen what the utilities and other skills the marauders can get yet. How about being patient and seeing the full changes before saying a class is irrelevant.

 

No one is over reacting. Any seasoned PvPers can see how easy it will be to shut down Marauders in 3.0 with CC and kiting. Information on all the specs are already there, and they are consistent with what BW officially showed so far. You can find them with google search.

 

PvE, they are still fine. So if you don't PvP, you have nothing to worry about.

[XeniusX]

It's not "dumbing down". It's streamlining, cutting out the unnecessary fat. Not everyone wants to have over 50 keybinds.

 

-Duran'del

 

unnecessary ? You have no clue. go away

[XeniusX]

Lets think about changes announced (since they are not the full battery we can only especulate if this are good or bad):

 

- Sentinels no longer have access to the Riposte ability,

Good one, since no competitive sentinel (pve or pvp) would use it, not even put in bars.

.

 

Stopped reading there, you have no clue either.

[Lt-Snake]

Wow, you are really overreacting. You haven't even seen what the utilities and other skills the marauders can get yet. How about being patient and seeing the full changes before saying a class is irrelevant.

 

1st of all i'm 99% sure most people have seen all the utilities for marauders already, if you haven't then you only have you self to blame for not being informed.

 

I really don't see the big issue. Nothing was really nerfed, I think crippling throw did horrible dps and I'm glad they put that in leg slash THAT is acually useful as well as the de-healing buff thing. We haven't even tried the game with the new changes yet....

 

no one care about the damage deadly throw did, it was all about the "Root, Trauma debuff, and the fact it was a 10m range ability" the little damage it did was an after thought, but it was still a welcome addition for killing someone on their last leg trying to run away/los-heal them self or by time..before you get to finish them off..

[Lafay]

Wow, PVP nerf bad for carnage... just like most have said, I think the removal to deadly throw is the wrong decision, its crippling slash that no one used, that's the one that should have got the shaft. Clearly a nerf, the only reason to use a slow is if someone is out of range, and if they are already out of range, you are now SOL > re-roll sin/sorc. I havent played these and I already can see the effect they have. I have pvp'd since the game came out and know what this will do to carnage. Good people will spot the gore and kb/stun/mez, goodbye carnage burst in pvp, good knowing you. Not that i play carnage much but still, i feel for those that do.

 

Anni, looks nice but still has issues. If we cant stick on our target through all the roots and stuns the other classes have, it wont matter how many dots we have. I think there needs to be some root/slow/cc immunity in this tree some where but other than that i think it is looking good.

 

Fury, seems to be the burst spec to go to now that carnage has been neutered. But remains to be seen.

 

 

Utility:

The utility options need to be moved around/ changed. The predation/camoroot break needs to be 2nd tier or brooding in 2nd tier. Having them both heroic is yet another nerf to carnage from live. This silly change to crippling slash should be a 1st tier utility, as it is far too useless to waste points at the heroic level. If fixed back to deadly throw causing root and slow on first hit, then it would be worthy of the heroic tier but as is, it will never be taken and you will see that in your metrics if 3.0 goes live as is. Undying rage/GBTF needs to have its 50% health loss removed from all specs (current use guarantees you will die in pvp, and most certainly will get you stunned if you don't have a white bar). If undying rage was like shroud and prevented CC for its duration, then it might be useful with the 50% health cut, cause then you will ahve a chance to medpack when it ends if you are fast. Why do Sins get more cc immunity while mara (who need it the most as we are kited and stuned more than anyone) get the shaft. You should copy over the utility given to deflection (cc immunity) and give it to saberward at the master level utility.

 

Conclusion: PVP mara has been shafted update after update (see how your so called metrics for dps have dropped since smash nerf, UR nerf, other classes buffed with stuff like egres available to all sorc, enraged def, kolto overload 30% dr, ect) We need the ability to stick to classes that can now run away while casting and root and cc at will.

[SirMannii]

PvE Marauders stay the same but will be more interesting for sure.

 

PvP Marauderds nerfed in Carnage, and stays the same in other specs kinda.

 

 

Wow.

[SeanFM]

- Sentinels no longer have access to the Riposte ability,

Good one, since no competitive sentinel (pve or pvp) would use it, not even put in bars.

Lol. Are you for real? I can't speak for PvE, but in PvP riposte was definitely used especially by competitive players, as they knew when they could put that extra burst in and still have enough focus left.

[CloudCastle]

Removing the saber throw is a REALLY BAD MOVE.

I'm REALLY sad you're removing the proc sounds. Love it on my female mara "WAAAAAHHHH".

 

Wait, what? Are you talking about the awesome growl? You know, my absolute favorite noise that my marauder does? Please tell me I'm misunderstanding this. I was so sad when they took my operative's giggle out (and overjoyed when it came back), I would hate to see yet another fun sound removed. (And WHY?)

[Lt-Snake]

Lets think about changes announced (since they are not the full battery we can only especulate if this are good or bad):

 

- Sentinels no longer have access to the Riposte ability,

Good one, since no competitive sentinel (pve or pvp) would use it, not even put in bars.

 

passive ability that automatically triggers an Ataru Form attack on all targets damaged by Cyclone Slash (nice for aoe damage, since right now Cyclone slash is almost a waste of focus)

 

Precision Slash no longer ignores the global cooldown, but as a result, it now deals much more damage and increases armor penetration for 6 seconds instead of just 4.5 seconds (this is a reset to previous state of the skill, we will have to relearn to use it)

 

not much info here, we will have to wait livestream to congratulate or complain (more likely last one) ourselves.

 

- Utilities

 

Not very fond of them, i think other classes get better ones.

 

1st of all there's nothing to think about the changes are just bad and 98% of the people in this thread understand that....the same way they understand the difference between night and day...its that clear.

 

2nd}you clearly dont know what you are talking about, pretty much every skilled marauder use Retat in Pvp...provided they have enough rage for it. its an excellent ability to use in combination with another skill for instant burst or instant activation of another skill....outside of pvp there's wasn't much use for the skill unless you are doing dailies/soloing stuff.

 

3rd}no one and i mean no one use sweeping slash or CS its a waste of rage and its just a bad conal ability all around..the increase damage wont change that fact. oh btw it had a 20% passive damage increase from the rage tree called "decimate" and no one took it unless u are spec rage..and they only took it for the the smash damage increase and lowered cd on smash/obliterate...

 

4th}putting Gore/PS on the GCD was an absolutely asinine idea..no one cared about the damage gore/ps did it. it was all about the Armor pen and the follow up ability that really matter i.e Ravage/scream----MS/BS...so buffing gore/ps damage don't mean Sh*t if u can't follow up with those ability i listed immediately....this change pretty much kills the opening burst rotation for a burst spec.

 

5}all the information for marauders are already out there...if you choose to ignored it then you only have your self to blame for being in the dark...and now that they posted some of the changes for the class and we actually get to comment on them....i dare say we have every right to complain about these garbage changes..

 

and finally most of the utility are just plain old bad period. end of story..

 

Stopped reading there, you have no clue either.

you are right, i was scratching my head when i read his post, thinking to my self what is this guy talking about" i probably should of follow your example

Edited November 19, 2014 by Lt-Snake

[xerestrasza]

Firstly, I am interested in the marauder's helmet, boots, and gloves that we can see on the picutre. Can somebody tell me whats the name of these items, especially helmet?

 

Secondly, Like most of the people here i just see nerf to pvp (except one plus - our cloak will remove dots in 3.0). Nowdays marauders are bad comparing to the rest, they lack some nice def cd (that wont take us 50% of remaining hp >.<) and are extremely susceptible to cc. This, along with being melee class, makes us squishy. Currently I've abandoned my mara and have fun as jugg/sorc/pt. I just find them more useful in pvp.

[erdems]

Damn. Crippling Throw is gone? ..... without crippling throw, I feel like things are gonna be really tough for Marauders/Sentinels now. I already find it annoying fighting any ranged classes cuz all they do is immobilize, run, and shoot you or heal. Now we can't even root them from a distance? Idk seems like some sketchy changes to me but I'm just voicing my concerns. I guess we'll see if the other class changes balance out with the changes to Marauder.

 

You wrote exactly my thoughts dude, so bad idea to remove Cripling Throw and transfer its debuff to lag slash. (it should have been exactly the opposite) we already dont have much ability to take down ranged classes. ranged classes have every advantage already, and now with more mobility for them and less ranged ability for sents, is the death sentence for poor sentinels. Now i realy believe you guys dont want to see any sentinel or marauder in warzones. Please reconsider this ...

Edited November 19, 2014 by erdems

[giorgo]

Guys hear me out,currently on the pts gore is off the gcd again.Now,the reason why bw choosed to post this outdated blog is probably because they knew what reactions it would raise.So in their stream in a couple of days they will show gore beeing off the gcd and say:hey we listen to your feedback,while in reality they are not and retaliation and deadly throw will be lost for sent/maras.

Imo deadly throw should remain as an ability and get the slow from crippling slash which should be removed.Deadly throw should have a utility that gives it a 3 sec root.Retaliation must remain as an ability as well.UR should be reverted to its old form,and/or allow it to be used while stunned.Oh,and gore off the gcd ofc...

Edited November 19, 2014 by giorgo

[tolaez]

Boo... These changes are bad. Except for maybe the rage tree, but I never really enjoyed rage personally.

 

PT and sorc changes look good. Merc is not so good, and mara is terrible. That's my $0.02

[BrianDavion]

so when's the Jugg/Guardian blog coming up?

[Morthwyll]

The new snare/heal-debuff should have 10m range, like current heal-debuff, having to actually use it twice to root target is terrible enough. IMO leave the heal-debuff/root like it is now, just remove the snare, smaller loss for the PvP Mara/Sent.

 

The only nice change is the detaunt cleanse, rest are unnecessary and no Idea why Carnage/Combat got that nerfs.

 

I don't get the whole idea of replacing one skill for another with the same effect, unless the damage will be higher or it gets some nice passive too, it seems completely unnecessary.

 

Riposte/Retaliation are used in PvP quite often, especially because they can't get blocked, so are nice to finish tanks or other Sents when they use Saber ward.

 

Carnage/Combat is all about fast burst, now not having any non-GCD ability and no DoT the burst will be a lot slower, pretty much only being able to kill healed target when you have Zen/Berserk running - is it what they aimed for?

 

"Combat and Concentration Sentinels will make up for this resulting sustained damage loss with other new abilities that they have gained." Currently I don't see anything that would make that statement real, but maybe the newish trees will actually have something new and good, which I really hope for, Carnage/Combat Mara/Sent is my favourite class so far, and making ppl like me to change spec if it becomes worst choice is not exactly progress/balance.

 

Well, at least the dot tree looks better.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Morthwyll

[xvlasis]

u r overthinking the changes,and by that i mean do not try to understand them,the changes are made by people who dont know how to play the class,thus making no sense.

What makes me wonder a little,is how come people havent said about the use/removal of rapture,not as dps but as a tool against stealthers.Also,devs and BW seem to forget that lots of people play with more than 60 ms,combined with the games skill lag,gore getting a gcd.....is a long spiked shaft handed to us

In any case,we are gonna be ignored again,as usually,since maras and carnage users apparently are considered lesser people by the devs.

And having twice the threads in one day( compared with other classes older info threads) with complaints about these retarted changes,is not enough for the devs to get the message that they messed up.

Edited November 19, 2014 by xvlasis

[Projawa]

Class performance is based around retroactive taxation. For example, If a spec is good or OPFOTM for 9 months, they will eventually be taxed for 9 months or more of mediocrity or worse in a subsequent balance pass. Usually this occurs in the form of the spec being ignored while other specs are overbuffed. Less commonly, the spec is directly nerfed through intention or ignorance.

 

Edited November 19, 2014 by Projawa

[xvlasis]

Class performance is based around retroactive taxation. For example, If a spec is good or OPFOTM for 9 months, they will eventually be taxed for 9 months or more of mediocrity or worse in a subsequent balance pass. Usually this occurs in the form of the spec being ignored while other specs are overbuffed. Less commonly, the spec is directly nerfed through intention or ignorance.

 

 

Ignorance is the key word in this case,although "intention"isnt far behind if you consider how the devs is treating marauders and carnage for the last year and a half ,nerf after nerf and small buffs on annihilation.

Dear devs,stop trying to force people to quit attaru and use juyo,i dont want,they dont want it,so stop treating us as second rate members of the swtor community,think of us as sorcs and sages just for 3-4 months.

And lets not forget that we still havent had the pleasure of carnage being higher in dps than annihilaton.

Edited November 19, 2014 by xvlasis

[Lafay]

Ignorance is the key word in this case,although "intention"isnt far behind if you consider how the devs is treating marauders and carnage for the last year and a half ,nerf after nerf and small buffs on annihilation.

Dear devs,stop trying to force people to quit attaru and use juyo,i dont want,they dont want it,so stop treating us as second rate members of the swtor community,think of us as sorcs and sages just for 3-4 months.

And lets not forget that we still havent had the pleasure of carnage being higher in dps than annihilaton.

 

This isnt true, Carnage had the lead in dps (parses reported to torparse) on 8/10 of dread fortress and Dread palace before the more recent buffs to annihilation. So there was a point when it was better 8/10 times than anni. As far as PVP goes, on average, carnage is higher, mostly cause no one knows how to play anni in pvp... and it has been like this since around 1.2 (when gore was taken off GCD and other buffs).

 

I dont like Gore on GCD, any player worth a crap will be able to spot that and stun/mez. There are even programs out there that detect buffs or debuffs on a target and make a sound to notify the player (this is cheating) and make it stupid easy to deny any and all gore windows from a player. Retaliate and repostile are very usefull in PVP, as they do not miss, ever. They also are free burst dps in a gore window, or when not stunned (50% of the time).