3.0 and Bioware still hates tanks

[azudelphi]

I remember a yellow post saying pretty much this, that they may include bosses with extra defenses so taunt could miss. I bet we will see fights where tanks will have to choose between lowering their survivability and rolling the dice on mechanics execution. That's going to suck.

 

I highly doubt this will be an issue.

 

Too much panic, not enough proof.

[jedip_enguin]

Is the sky falling again Chicken Little? Edited November 16, 2014 by jedip_enguin

[Kurin]

First, I will say that I doubt BioWare HATES tanks. I do personally fear they underestimate the impact of this change, however. Adding 10% accuracy while in tank stance is nice. Tanks will gain about 10% dps, in general, as a result. It should be easier for us to hold aggro on group packs, and hopefully have fewer initial boss pulls where we lose aggro to bad RNG, even when pulled "perfectly".

 

For those reasons, the change will be a good quality of life improvement.

 

However, there are existing boss fights in the game, in which bosses and even adds have significant defensive buffs. The first that comes to mind is Bestia in Dread Palace, whenever 2 monsters are near each other, or whenever Bestia is near a monster, these mobs have HUGE defensive buffs. Even in Story Mode, this mechanic for Bestia exists, and in NiM, there are almost always 3 monsters out at a time, meaning 2 monsters are almost always buffed (cannot be avoided), and if a taunt were to miss at that time, it's a for sure wipe. Nightmare is hard enough, when done perfectly...having a taunt miss and wiping to bad RNG over taunt misses is beyond brutal.

 

Without giving away specifics, I've heard that the new operations being developed for 3.0 have all been developed with the new character toolsets in mind. Far less cleansing. Far fewer interrupts needed. And almost certainly, there aren't going to be bosses/adds with defensive buffs that will result in taunts missing.

 

So tanks will probably be fine for the new content...it's only the old content, if not re-worked, that will be annoying. Hopefully BioWare re-works the old stuff so that taunts won't miss there as well...especially Dread Palace/Dread Fortress, which BioWare intends to keep relevant. If BioWare does that, the sky will not indeed be falling.

[MisterBlackJack]

And MAYBE I would buy into all of that if BW takes out all of the tank gear that has accuracy in it. But I'll bet ya that just like the 168/180 gear we get now it'll still have accuracy in it.

 

Oh and why would a DPS be able to taunt in 3.0? With the discipline system shouldn't tank disciplines be the only ones getting a taunt skill?

 

And if you're DPS and decide to taunt off the tank, you deserve to die.

 

So in short - taunts missing and tanks needing accuracy is still BS.

 

1. The reason accuracy is in tank gear so you have to grind ops the mid max.

 

2. All Classes that have s tank spec get taunts regardless if they're tanks or not its s base class ability

[Levram]

However, there are existing boss fights in the game, in which bosses and even adds have significant defensive buffs. The first that comes to mind is Bestia in Dread Palace, whenever 2 monsters are near each other, or whenever Bestia is near a monster, these mobs have HUGE defensive buffs. Even in Story Mode, this mechanic for Bestia exists, and in NiM, there are almost always 3 monsters out at a time, meaning 2 monsters are almost always buffed (cannot be avoided), and if a taunt were to miss at that time, it's a for sure wipe. Nightmare is hard enough, when done perfectly...having a taunt miss and wiping to bad RNG over taunt misses is beyond brutal.

 

You don't understand the mechanic that is happening when two, or more, monsters in the Bestia fight are powered-up. They do not become harder to kill because they gain any additional "Defense." They are actually gaining a massive Damage Reduction buff. The DPS in your group do not miss or have their attacks resisted any more frequently by a powered-up monster than by an unpowered one. The damage their attacks do is simply reduced by ~98%. Just think of it as "glowing monster = +25,000 armor rating."

 

There is no current operation content in the game where a boss or mob has greater than a 10% buff to their Defense chance. With tanks in 3.0 getting a free 10% boost to their Accuracy from simply being in tank stance, they will have 110% Force/Tech Accuracy with zero Accuracy rating on their gear and every taunt they do will perform exactly as it does now.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Levram

[wainot-keel]

I highly doubt this will be an issue.

 

Too much panic, not enough proof.

 

What panic ?

Is about tanks needing a stat they haven't used so far. If there won't be any circumstances where taunts miss (because of stance) why make the change at all ? Just for the heck of it ?

Edited November 16, 2014 by wainot-keel

[NogueiraA]

It won't affect PVE, it's a PVP change to prevent DPS specs to taunt on cooldown

 

On PVE DPS specs needs 100% accuracy to not miss atacks, so taunt won't miss either. Tanks stances will now gives 10% accuracy, more than enough to reach 100%+ accuracy as a tank, taunt won't miss.

[Zoom_VI]

It won't affect PVE, it's a PVP change to prevent DPS specs to taunt on cooldown

 

On PVE DPS specs needs 100% accuracy to not miss atacks, so taunt won't miss either. Tanks stances will now gives 10% accuracy, more than enough to reach 100%+ accuracy as a tank, taunt won't miss.

 

Please can people stop spreading misinformation. Nobody in PvP has base resistance chance, so taunts won't be missing, just like pre 2.0. Except for shroud and diversion but those are insignificant.

[g_land]

Don't all characters have a 5% defense chance

[Silverspar]

I am impressed with the decree that the OP declares tanks are hated by Bioware, because they aren't making tanking trivially easy like they did in other games, like WoW. Oh no, you have to work at being a tank.

[SamTheHexagon]

Please can people stop spreading misinformation. Nobody in PvP has base resistance chance, so taunts won't be missing, just like pre 2.0. Except for shroud and diversion but those are insignificant.

 

What about Sniper's MM Diversion skill? That has an accuracy debuff in it. And Obfuscate? Those work in PvP right?

[Ryuku-sama]

Don't all characters have a 5% defense chance

 

Defense. Not resist.

[Zoom_VI]

What about Sniper's MM Diversion skill? That has an accuracy debuff in it. And Obfuscate? Those work in PvP right?

 

That's what I meant by Shroud and Diversion

 

Also Obfuscate and the majority of accuracy debuffs only affect melee and ranged attacks, taunts are considered a tech/force attack.

 

Technically there are exactly three affects in PvP that could throw a resist.

1) Sniper's Diversion

2) Force Shroud

3) Deguass from pyro. (soon to be Sonic Defense in Tactics.)

[Cypherz]

You don't understand the mechanic that is happening when two, or more, monsters in the Bestis fight are powered-up. They do not become harder to kill because they gain any additional "Defense." They are actually gaining a massive Damage Reduction buff. The DPS in your group do not miss or have their attacks resisted any more frequently by a powered-up monster than by an unpowered one. The damage their attacks do is simply reduced by ~98%. Just think of it as "glowing monster = +25,000 armor rating."

 

There is no current operation content in the game where a boss or mob has greater than a 10% buff to their Defense chance. With tanks in 3.0 getting a free 10% boost to their Accuracy from simply being in tank stance, they will have 110% Force/Tech Accuracy with zero Accuracy rating on their gear and every taunt they do will perform exactly as it does now.

 

^Pretty much this.

 

I do however enjoy when people like the OP don't go and research something before ************ about it and then come in here and make themselves look like idiots.

[EllieAnne]

It's not that I didn't research it. It's that BW is changing the mechanics on a class that traditionally they give no love for. There are a few threads that as crappy as the DPS/Heals comm gear is at least they have useful stats ours does not. Now they are reworking tanks because of an exploit that a small fraction of players are using. And who doesn't think players will find yet another exploit 16 minutes after 3.0 comes out. It's what MMO players do.

 

Can you absolutely guaranty 100% that when tanking in PvE and in ops, my taunt will never ever miss - even if the RNG comes up with a 0?

 

Will BW expect me to stack accuracy now and offer me comms gear with stats that do me no good (remember you claim I have enough accuracy to his 100% of my taunts because of the buffs)

Edited November 17, 2014 by EllieAnne

[azudelphi]

It's not that I didn't research it. It's that BW is changing the mechanics on a class that traditionally they give no love for. There are a few threads that as crappy as the DPS/Heals comm gear is at least they have useful stats ours does not. Now they are reworking tanks because of an exploit that a small fraction of players are using. And who doesn't think players will find yet another exploit 16 minutes after 3.0 comes out. It's what MMO players do.

 

Can you absolutely guaranty 100% that when tanking in PvE and in ops, my taunt will never ever miss - even if the RNG comes up with a 0?

 

Unless the boss is immune to Force / Tech abilities, I think it is safe to say your taunt will never ever miss.

 

Edit: And let just hypothetically say that the boss had an ability that raises its defense to where it isn't 100% guaranteed that your taunt will hit. Would that be any different than if a boss as we know it pre-3.0 gained taunt immunity for a certain duration? The answer is yes, it is different... in that if something is immune to taunt it is a waste, if it has higher defense it may not be a waste (though there is a chance it could be)... again, I think this issue is being over-worried.

Edited November 17, 2014 by azudelphi

[Levram]

Can you absolutely guaranty 100% that when tanking in PvE and in ops, my taunt will never ever miss - even if the RNG comes up with a 0?

 

Will BW expect me to stack accuracy now and offer me comms gear with stats that do me no good (remember you claim I have enough accuracy to his 100% of my taunts because of the buffs)

 

Yes, I will absolutely guarantee that for every boss fight from Eternity Vault to Dread Palace, your taunt will be 100% effective on any boss or mob that is not displaying the Taunt Immunity buff.

 

You will be able to walk into 3.0, turn on your character's tank stance, and have 110% Force/Tech Accuracy. Congratulations, you are now fully geared for Accuracy on your tank in one click of your mouse.

 

P.S. And with the Developers simply giving every tank in game a free, no gearing required, +10% Accuracy, every tank will be even more efficient in holding threat on the old operation bosses than they ever were before, as tank attacks will have a 0% chance of being defended against. You will never see "Parry" or "Resisted" popping off a boss as Fly-Text again for any ability other than your free attack. Therefore, you may find that you have to taunt even less than you ever had to before when running the same content in 3.0. Tanking is becoming mathematically easier with this change, not harder.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Levram