Lazy, Unskilled, or just Jerks? Which is it BioWare?

[ivanhedgehog]

It's a pathfinder. So, if you are closer to the zone transition, then yes... it will send you that way.

 

Basically, if you are on Hoth and are far to the South, it will tend to point you towards the southern transitions because that's the shortest route.

 

no, it will send you on a longer one just as often.

 

you will be pleased to note that they changed the game for everyone to fix an occurrence that will only happen on day 1 of a new expansion but will effect players every day, some of them negatively. they spent time to nerf guild ship transports which were operating exactly like they had sold them, but later decided that they shouldnt operate that way. the devs dont fix bugs that annoy you, only the ones that annoy them.

Edited November 12, 2014 by ivanhedgehog

[MaximusRex]

Examples before you are considered crazy.

 

Pub side Hoth is the only one I can think of off the top of my hat. Each sub section of the world has a Northern Checkpoint that is Republic, and a Southern Checkpoint that is Imperial. Since most of the quests take place on the south half of the map, that makes the Imperial route closer, so the quest direction arrows will try and route you through the Imperial outposts. If you move North it will then show the arrows going through the Republic outpost.

 

Similarly, taxi paths will not always highlight the closest point to the quest, it will highlight the closest point to you without going past the quest area, so it might be better to fly to a slightly further taxi destination and then come back.

 

OP, the system merely shows the shortest route to the objective without overshooting it. Since it is working properly that kind of makes you the lazy unskilled jerk here.

[Glower]

Are your people to lazy too correct it and direct players through their own factions checkpoints?

 

But it points you to destination not to the route! This is not a railroad simulator, just use your brain.

[MsMalice]

A new player is not aware that their routing system is flawed. A new player is not familiar with the alternative routes. You are directed to go west, but in reality you should go far north, through an area that hasn't even been uncovered. A new player is going to sit there and wonder, how the heck do I get through that?

 

The game already holds your hand enough as it is, God forbid you actually have to explore the map. Kids these days...

[-Healius-]

First time I played Hoth I didn't understand why the base was attacking me and then I realised it wasn't my base lol, silly green markers telling me to run through a Sith base, genius!

[MisterBlackJack]

It took me forever to find that little tunnel by the Outlaw's Den so that I could scan the 'Vaporator there for the GSI mission w/out actually going in and getting flagged. It's there, but it's a pita to find.

 

That's because that's how its designed they wanted you to go into outlaws then. They want to encourage players of opposite factions to cross paths

[Ivy_Blackrose]

After all this time, why does your game's quest system still continue to direct players through enemy checkpoints or outposts?

 

Are your people to lazy too correct it and direct players through their own factions checkpoints?

Do they lack the skill to change it?

Are you purposely directing people the wrong direction to confuse them or kill them?

 

 

 

you do realize this is a universe AT WAR right? that is normal for you to have to go in and out of enemy territory ALL THE TIME, what is the issue here?

[robertthebard]

That's because that's how its designed they wanted you to go into outlaws then. They want to encourage players of opposite factions to cross paths

 

The only time I did it was LoL worthy. I went in on my Assassin to get the HK part and scan, and then mezzed a Guardian who was also scanning. I didn't kill him, making him crap his pants was too funny, so I just mezzed and went on. If I wanted to constantly play with my head on a swivel in case of PvP, I would have rolled on a PvP server. Since I didn't feel the need, coming here from Aion, I chose to roll on a PvE server, and to not flag up if I didn't have to. I'm not allergic to PvP, but really, here, it's just not the draw it was when I played the second closed beta and forward in Aion. I still had a sub when it went F2P, so I stuck with it for quite a while, in MMO time.

[Hei_Atzfel]

After all this time, why does your game's quest system still continue to direct players through enemy checkpoints or outposts?

 

I fail to see how this is an issue. Just means more chances to run into the opposite faction for a few kills.

[Cernow]

I don't believe this is correct. They always appear as red to me, whenever I bother to check. I know they are red because that single glimpse of red on my path has been enough to save me once or twice. I've never seen the guards of an enemy base as any color other than red, and I play on a PvE server, and I am never flagged.

 

I've noticed this several times now, usually on Belsavis so perhaps there's a specific bug there. The guards and the merchant NPCs in the enemy base all show as green as you approach. So you aren't aware of impending doom until it's too late - usually you've driven in too far to escape by the time the 'flagging for PvP' message comes up. They only turn to red once you're flagged. And even then only the guards turn to red, the merchant NPCs continue to show as green. It's all very misleading.

[Unchosen]

It's a flaw of the game to direct players through an area they can't survive. The arrow should not be green, it should be red.

But insults towards the devs are unnecessary. Show some respect even if you're unhappy with how they handle certain issues.

[Deewe]

Skimming through this topic, this is the direction that my mind has been going.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_traversal

 

Their algorithm probably sticks close to the basics. A node is a node. All waypoints are equal. All that matters is the length of each path between connected nodes.

 

But of course navigating isn't quite that simple for us here because of those faction bases. The first thought to address this would be to tinker with the way the nodes are defined and the way the algortihm functions so that certain nodes are no longer considered valid...

 

I think they can make it a bit simpler than that though, can't they? Start out with the check against the player's current faction and populate a slightly different list of nodes for each instead of using the same list for everybody. So the nodes that the algorithm uses for mission pathfinding for Republic players will be based on a map that treats Imperial bases as solid walls (no paths to or from them) or at least jacks up the "path distance" value to an unreasonable level (so the algorithm still considers that path but rates it as being much longer so that another path has a chance to rate better)). And the nodes for Empire players do the same for Republic bases. The code does the same thing either way and it determines that a specific path is the shortest path. It just starts with data weighted to discourage ever finding those inconvenient options to be the shortest path.

 

In the Tatooine example, for a Republic player trying to get around that one Imperial base for a companion mission, the nodes in question might be:

A = Outpost Thorazan

B = Outpost Zaroshe

C = tunnel entrance near Outpost Zaroshe in Dune Sea

D = tunnel exit near Outlaw's Den (south)

E = a Republic companion mission location past Outpost Zaroshe

 

(I'm going to make up numbers here.)

 

Suppose that he information associated with the nodes currently looks like:

path AB = 100

path AC = 99

path CD = 2

path BE = 50

path DE = 51

 

And suppose that the information associated with the nodes for Republic players after this change might look like:

path AB = 1000

path AC = 99

path CD = 2

path BE = 500

path DE = 51

 

Compare path AB->BE and path AC->CD->DE. Currently the pathfinder would say that the total lengths are 150 and 152, making the path through Outpost Zaroshe the shorter path. The pathfinder for the node list that has been revised for Republic players, though, would say that the total lengths are 1500 and 152, making the path through the tunnel the shorter path.

 

If the values, whatever they actually are, are calculated live based on the map layout somehow instead of just being predefined and stored in a table of data like this, the faction check would have to happen when this calculation is made and it would multiply the actual value by some amount to create the inflated numbers where it needs to.

It's not that hard to improve the path finding. They did not bother make it good because the minding in SWTOR is and has always been the players can live with half backed features.

 

It's indeed in those little things that you can really see the difference between well polished MMOs and SWTOR.

 

Unless they drastically change the mindset behind the making of this game, the gameplay will keep being frustrating. It's one of the reasons SWTOR has a hard time both keeping and earning new customers, because game play is smoother elsewhere.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Deewe

[MisterBlackJack]

The only time I did it was LoL worthy. I went in on my Assassin to get the HK part and scan, and then mezzed a Guardian who was also scanning. I didn't kill him, making him crap his pants was too funny, so I just mezzed and went on. If I wanted to constantly play with my head on a swivel in case of PvP, I would have rolled on a PvP server. Since I didn't feel the need, coming here from Aion, I chose to roll on a PvE server, and to not flag up if I didn't have to. I'm not allergic to PvP, but really, here, it's just not the draw it was when I played the second closed beta and forward in Aion. I still had a sub when it went F2P, so I stuck with it for quite a while, in MMO time.

 

People still do PvP even on pve servers

[Kourage]

My 1st time through Hoth & Belsavis, I actually thought I was supposed to go through those NPCs. On a Merc, sometimes I could, sometimes I couldn't. Still, their system failed and should have been fixed by now.

[Eanelinea]

It's more of a pain for some players due to the Fog of War they have covering the map. I mean, I understand it's there for exploration purposes, but I remember running into rep/imp sides on Hoth and Belsavis, I just learned to go around if it was possible to do so. But I've been playing for 3 years, so I know about this 'feature'.

[Lunafox]

After all this time, why does your game's quest system still continue to direct players through enemy checkpoints or outposts?

 

Are your people to lazy too correct it and direct players through their own factions checkpoints?

Do they lack the skill to change it?

Are you purposely directing people the wrong direction to confuse them or kill them?

 

I know what you're saying, I've encountered this on Tattoine, Hoth and even on Belsavis, I believe. It's a bit unnerving when you're a pve player and suddenly that threatening count off kicks in...and if you're truly unlucky, you don't get out in time, or you get annihilated by the guards of that area and such.

 

Personally, I think the devs are evil and delight in our pain. They'll never change that.

Edited November 12, 2014 by Lunafox

[robertthebard]

People still do PvP even on pve servers

 

...and your point? I think you're trying to take this topic somewhere it's not meant to go, a discussion of PvP. Since that's not the topic here, I'm just going to disengage from this conversation, since it's totally off topic, and irrelevant to the topic.

[AshlaBoga]

It's not that hard to improve the path finding. They did not bother make it good because the minding in SWTOR is and has always been the players can live with half backed features.

 

It's indeed in those little things that you can really see the difference between well polished MMOs and SWTOR.

 

Unless they drastically change the mindset behind the making of this game, the gameplay will keep being frustrating. It's one of the reasons SWTOR has a hard time both keeping and earning new customers, because game play is smoother elsewhere.

 

Meh, I've never really seen this as an issue.

A) See enemy guards, go around enemy guards or B) take slightly longer route.

 

Now the Kallig Countenance and Ghostly Magus mask not working with hoods? That's frustrating.

[Justin_Scott]

I was just killed by this, I've screenshots of the map/location of one on Belsavis.

http://imgur.com/a/dsqmf

[MillionsKNives]

I was just killed by this, I've screenshots of the map/location of one on Belsavis.

http://imgur.com/a/dsqmf

 

The thing that frustrates me about the ones on Belsavis is that they are not bases. They're just a random checkpoint that looks like every other checkpoint, but instead of having enemies at your level they're all 50 or 55. It makes no sense. When I was leveling my smuggler recently I was killed by something similar. The map took me through a tunnel which ended up being a tunnel filled with 50+ imperial droids...for no discernible reason. What makes that tunnel so special that it has to be filled with base defenders, even though there's no base there?

[LyraineAlei]

The thing that frustrates me about the ones on Belsavis is that they are not bases. They're just a random checkpoint that looks like every other checkpoint, but instead of having enemies at your level they're all 50 or 55. It makes no sense. When I was leveling my smuggler recently I was killed by something similar. The map took me through a tunnel which ended up being a tunnel filled with 50+ imperial droids...for no discernible reason. What makes that tunnel so special that it has to be filled with base defenders, even though there's no base there?

 

In that screenshot, I see part of the base. It's the one where Imperial Faction characters get the Rakata transportation mission. Just no base like a bunch of buildings.

 

I'm surprised the phototaker was killed there though. I've done the same on Imp faction to the Rep base, just speedered through, was playing F2P back then, so no red option beyond med droid, but I didn't even get killed.

 

On a Speeder 1 speeder.

[LordArtemis]

I think improvements could be made. I don't see them as "vital changes", but I certainly think that most folks would appreciate this kind of change.

 

Naturally there will be those that will miss the element of danger, and that is understandable. I still think, however, it would benefit most if it did not route past or THROUGH enemy checkpoints and bases.

Edited November 12, 2014 by LordArtemis

[robertthebard]

The thing that frustrates me about the ones on Belsavis is that they are not bases. They're just a random checkpoint that looks like every other checkpoint, but instead of having enemies at your level they're all 50 or 55. It makes no sense. When I was leveling my smuggler recently I was killed by something similar. The map took me through a tunnel which ended up being a tunnel filled with 50+ imperial droids...for no discernible reason. What makes that tunnel so special that it has to be filled with base defenders, even though there's no base there?

 

Some of these are for the Bonus series, and associated quests. If you're not careful about where you're driving on Balmorra, you can drive smack into a 55 zone that's there for the Macro Binocular missions too. There are some of them on Hoth too, that you can drive into, if you're not paying attention to where you're going, or, in my case at least, what toon you're on.

[DeLaaNie]

To be fair, the map is almost impossible to read when you first arrive on the planet. There is no way, IMO, that a player fresh to the planet would know that many of the paths are tied specifically to faction. Same thing happens on Makeb now that I think of it.

 

This is why they should add map unlocks to the legacy or some such thing. If I spent the time to unlock most, if not all, areas of a map, why do I need to repeat it for every new character I craft? Also, as someone has stated before, this game has ships that can do light speed, swords made out of light, guns that do not use slugs, people with "magic powers" and technology able to instantly teleport people/items and the ability to become cloaked in light, yet they do not have a standard gps?

 

Hell, my iPhone 6 Plus can show me all of France right now and I live in NYC, and it takes us 3 days to reach the bloody moon!

[DeLaaNie]

...

 

For the indicator on the taxi menu it appears that it only looks for the closest taxi point to the zone your quest marker is in, not to the quest location itself. I've stopped trusting the green arrow over the taxi terminals altogether and instead check my map first for the closest location. It seems to be wrong more often than it's right.

 

What I do is to check my Journal for the place it says to go and then fly to that area (assuming the quest you are currently on actually states a location).