Discipline System; I don't suppose there is still time to reconsider?

[Max_Killjoy]

Dick's makes good burgers. Name of a restaurant in Seattle, on Broadway street. Washington State. Good place to get food, local owned, been in the area for most if not all of a century.

 

Anyway, why not withold the whining and end-days-are-here calling and give disciplines a try in a couple of weeks? It is too late for them to be reconsidered, sorry. But they don't look too bad from what I've seen so far.

 

Of course, most of the doomsaying could have been averted if communication between BW to us was less spotty. Like if BW told us a month ago when Disciplines were announced, what the changes were likely to be, we wouldn't have nearly as much WoW comparison because of the same name.

 

You like your hybrids? Too bad, BW doesn't want to bother with balancing hybrids with purebuilds, which has clearly resulted in no one who doesnt read the net below level 30 or play any other MMOs, knowing how to play their bleeping classes. If I need to go read a third party website just to know that my Bodyguard Merc should be using certain abilities, and not others (rocket punch, I see you there), then something isn't all properly taught. In game.

 

That being said, I follow the cult of Dulfy, and support the temples of Torhead and Swtor-spy.

 

Because, of course, no one would be able to look at the previews and tell how wretched the new system will be...

[LyraineAlei]

Because, of course, no one would be able to look at the previews and tell how wretched the new system will be...

 

Actually, if the doomsayers used the actual details in our game to say they dislike it, then I wouldn't mind them so much because then they would be using in-game details.

[anonnn]

I think you've gone off-topic a bit.

 

Weren't we talking about bacon cheeseburgers?

 

AHEM. Bacon CHILI Cheeseburgers is a far more interesting topic, wouldn't you say ??

[Lt-Snake]

Perhaps you haven't looked hard enough for these posts. One of the biggest benefits they've noted is the ability to give players higher tier abilities sooner, so you feel like you are actually playing the spec you chose by level 20 instead of 40. This was not possible before, as you noted, because hybrids would have had access to those abilities.

 

or perhaps like me the person in question already know he wont benefit from gaining top tier ability at a earlier level, if we already have all 16 AC or already have 22 toons at max level being a launch Vet..

[Turajin]

But, to continue your analogy. You do recognize that your take on Jim Carrey and his movies is just your opinion, correct? Now, does this opinion of yours make you believe that his movies should not be shown in theaters at all? Or to clarify where I'm going with this, do you think your dislike of disciplines means the feature should not exist or be implemented?

If I would be in a world where suddenly all movies would become Jim Carey movies and the only option to avoid them would be to never go to the cinema again - yeah, then I would strongly object it.

 

Or for this game:

since the discipline System is not like GSF or PvP, both things I don't like (the later because I simply don't like PvP, and the first because basically it is also some kind of PvP) but that I can avoid by simply chosing not to participate in. So I don't care that those elements are in the game, and I also don't care if they are expanded by getting new maps, WZ or stuff like that (as long as they stay optional).

 

But the discipline system is different. It is not optional. I am forced to use it or stop playing the game. So, yes, in this particular situation, my opinion and that of everyone else who is against this change should be taken into consideration before making such a drastical change to the core system.

 

There are always optimal choices.

Simple answer to this delusion: no. There are not always "optimal" choices. Choices can be, at best, optimal under certain circumstances for the situation at hand, for the personal taste or from the personal point of view, but there is not a everytime, everyplace, everywhere optimal solution.

[Halinalle]

or perhaps like me the person in question already know he wont benefit from gaining top tier ability at a earlier level, if we already have all 16 AC or already have 22 toons at max level being a launch Vet..

 

Currently, you have to be at level 45 to get your final rotation for many specs.

In new system many specs can utilize their full or almost full rotation at level 26. It's very helpful to get it learned before you get overwhelmed by other abilities.

[Gomla]

Dick's makes good burgers.

 

So many jokes to be made, so little time.

[FalmeseReb]

youre joking right? it comes out in two weeks. I doubt anything at all will change outside of a few integers for last minute balancing and maybe a few bug fixes.

[LyraineAlei]

So many jokes to be made, so little time.

 

I think the founders of Dick's intended it to be... Implied humor.

[Max_Killjoy]

There are not always "optimal" choices. Choices can be, at best, optimal under certain circumstances for the situation at hand, for the personal taste or from the personal point of view, but there is not a everytime, everyplace, everywhere optimal solution.

 

True.

 

Sometimes, all you have is a selection of bad choices, and the best you can do is take the least bad option.

[randont]

Beyond self preservation, there is very seldom a reason not to try something. You're making snap judgments about something you don't fully understand. If you see nothing wrong with that, then there's really nothing else to say.

 

You should quit commenting. Nothing you've said so far has been intelligent.

[Lt-Snake]

i think Swtor should of did something similar to what Rift did with their new masteries system..if you dont know what that is i suggest you look it up...but bioware dont have the man power/time/tech or resource to balance the skill tree and balance a similar masteries system if they were to implement it... so they decide to take the easy road and dumb down the skill tree into a auto discipline system.......i also think if they wanted to get rid of hybrid then they could of lock you into one skill tree once you started to put points into which ever one you choose:p

 

 

Check it out

Edited November 15, 2014 by Lt-Snake

[MisterBlackJack]

We seriously using movies and food for analgy for a game system now?

 

Its done its not gonna change from now to early access. Bioware has been clear on there disapproval of hybrids.

 

Now they can balance classes easier and spend more time making CONTENT. Which I prefer over balancing around hybrids. Their time is done.

[MisterBlackJack]

i think Swtor should of did something similar to what Rift did with their new masteries system..if you dont know what that is i suggest you look it up...but bioware dont have the man power/time/tech or resource to balance the skill tree and balance a similar masteries system if they were to implement it... so they decide to take the easy road and dumb down the skill tree into a auto discipline system.......i also think if they wanted to get rid of hybrid then they could of lock you into one skill tree once you started to put points into which ever one you choose:p

 

 

Check it out

 

So what's different from what they are doing now if they could lock trees once you put points in 1

[Lt-Snake]

So what's different from what they are doing now if they could lock trees once you put points in 1

 

it would probably remove some of the sting players are feeling right now with the up coming new discipline system..

[Arkerus]

We seriously using movies and food for analgy for a game system now?

 

Its done its not gonna change from now to early access. Bioware has been clear on there disapproval of hybrids.

 

Now they can balance classes easier and spend more time making CONTENT. Which I prefer over balancing around hybrids. Their time is done.

 

This is really the bottom line. While some people have willfully ignored all the benefits (scared of change, ignoring facts about builds, hybrid, etch) this change is done.

 

The system is better, pragmatically and if you don't like it, then too bad for you. You'll learn to like it as it simplifies things for both players and devs.

[Max_Killjoy]

This is really the bottom line. While some people have willfully ignored all the benefits (scared of change, ignoring facts about builds, hybrid, etch) this change is done.

 

The system is better, pragmatically and if you don't like it, then too bad for you. You'll learn to like it as it simplifies things for both players and devs.

 

There are few phrases in the English language more indicative of someone trying to promote an indefensible position than "You'll learn to like it."

 

Of course, most of those few phrases revolve around trying to paint opposition to the position as a personal fault on the part of those opposed...

Edited November 15, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[MisterBlackJack]

it would probably remove some of the sting players are feeling right now with the up coming new discipline system..

 

So a more limiting system than what Bioware is presenting us now is going yo "lessen" the sting? How so?

[Arkerus]

There are few phrases in the English language more indicative of someone trying to promote an indefensible position than "You'll learn to like it."

 

Of course, most of those few phrases revolve around trying to paint opposition to the position as a personal fault on the part of those opposed...

 

You'll learn to like it. Cheers! You can't convince the forum warriors who ignore the facts. We tried but you don't understand the basic reasons why.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Arkerus

[Zoom_VI]

You'll learn to like it. Cheers! You can't convince the forum warriors who ignore the facts.

 

What facts? The whole argument against disciplines comes predominantly out of personal taste.

[Reno_Tarshil]

What facts? The whole argument against disciplines comes predominantly out of personal taste.

 

Exactly.

[Max_Killjoy]

You'll learn to like it.

 

Thus proving that you have nothing to back up your claims, and must resort to trite, cliched character attacks in the juvenile attempt to make your claims look good by associating supposed character flaws on the part of those opposed with the opposition to the idea.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Thus proving that you have nothing to back up your claims, and must resort to trite, cliched character attacks in the juvenile attempt to make your claims look good by associating supposed character flaws on the part of those opposed with the opposition to the idea.

 

Well the other option is that people who refuse to learn to like it will just leave. Because I seriously doubt disciplines are going to be cancelled.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well the other option is that people who refuse to learn to like it will just leave. Because I seriously doubt disciplines are going to be cancelled.

 

They could also just put up with it despite their enjoyment of the game being diminished, because of other things they still like about the game.

 

This is what Bioware has to be hoping for, unless they're so out of touch or just plain delusional that they really believe that this is going to actually make the game better for more people than it makes it worse for.

 

There will still be bad players, there will still be players who think they can "play their way" and still inflict themselves on high-end content, there will still be players who play melee classes at range and ranged classes in melee, there will still be players who put Willpower gear on their Knight "because Force powers", there will still be real balance issues, there will still be imaginary balance issues from PvPers who are butthurt that they can't faceroll some other class, etc, etc, etc, etc.

[Arkerus]

Thus proving that you have nothing to back up your claims, and must resort to trite, cliched character attacks in the juvenile attempt to make your claims look good by associating supposed character flaws on the part of those opposed with the opposition to the idea.

 

You'll take your new system and you'll like it.