Please, change the rules for "Needing" on gear.

[Galbatorrix]

Common sense dictates that if Bioware never intended for me to be allowed to roll Need on an item that they wouldn't present me with the option to do so.

 

Bioware made the age old error of trusting players to do the right thing. Which is never smart, especially in an MMO. Plus, they seem to be very lazy when it comes to fixing QoL issues (seriously, we have one of the most barebones group finding system in the genre and it hasn't been improved in years). Basically, Bioware made a mistake, and you're exploiting it. It's not like you're guaranteed drops when you run FPs and one of your group members could have been grinding for that upgrade only to have you need it for that companion you haven't used since you got it. personally, I'd feel horrible doing that.

 

Again, it's a nice guys finish last system and it needs to be fixed.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Galbatorrix

[Pirana]

The system that should have been implemented is rather simple, which is something that other mmo's use. I'll use FP's as an example as this is probably the most common area of abuse.

 

*Piece of gear drops, your class has either two or three options.

**If the piece of gear can be used by you specifically, you have the Need / Greed / Pass options window.

**If the piece of gear cannot be used by you specifically, you have the Greed / Pass options window.

 

Considering this wasn't implemented. You now have to set a specific set of rules upon entering, or quite simply wing it.

 

If the Trooper is Needing on Sorcerer gear, you vote kick, type in chat something like "from here out, everyone please roll Need", live with it, or simply remove yourself.

 

I highly doubt the loot rules will change. It's up to you, and how you want to deal with it.

 

[ToxicityGarden]

I think the whole alt issue could be solved by doing the following:

1) Pick a single alt at the start of the run. Doesn't matter if you have 900 alts, pick ONE.

2) Declare it to the others at the start of the Ops. "Hey guys, I am maxed out on SW gear, so I will not be rolling need for SW. However, I will be rolling need on tank BH gear. "

3) If people rage, offer to bring your undergeared BH to the Ops group and watch the fireworks.

 

That's a single, simple switch. One to One.

 

On the other hand, rolling need on every alt you have? Eff that. Kick 'em.

[ivanhedgehog]

While it's not an issue that bothers me personally (I never really pay much attention to loot), the amount of strife it causes amongst the general population leads me to the conclusion that maybe they should change it.

 

If we all had our own personal, private loot tables and what you get had nothing at all to do with what anybody else got, then this whole area of grief and woe would vanish overnight.

 

 

(And we'd all have to find something else to moan about. Which of course we would, in about two-and-a-half seconds.)

 

City of heroes did that. what dropped for you showed up in your bag...no one elses business. I have 20 55's. I have an alt that needs anything that drops. does this mean I get to need on everything because I bring my nim geared main in a run?

[Orizuru]

Bioware made the age old error of trusting players to do the right thing. Which is never smart, especially in an MMO. Plus, they seem to be very lazy when it comes to fixing QoL issues (seriously, we have one of the most barebones group finding system in the genre and it hasn't been improved in years). Basically, Bioware made a mistake, and you're exploiting it. It's not like you're guaranteed drops when you run FPs and one of your group members could have been grinding for that upgrade only to have you need it for that companion you haven't used since you got it. personally, I'd feel horrible doing that.

 

Again, it's a nice guys finish last system and it needs to be fixed.

 

Its a difference in ideology. I actually don't exploit the system. I roll Greed when the item is for an alt or companion. However, I'm only doing this because it is the social norm that players have created. I disagree strongly with this ideology because I believe it to be less than fair when you look beyond any single loot drop.

 

It takes a group to down the boss. RNG largely controls what the loot will be. It could be an Aim based item 100 times in a row in this system. Your ideology would exclude anyone who doesn't use Aim as a main stat from every being allowed to roll against group member who use Aim. So after 100 bosses the non-Aim users have had zero chances at winning loot. How is that fair?

 

I believe if it takes 4 people to get the loot drop, then each person deserves a 25% shot at winning the loot, regardless of how they choose to use it. My system seems more fair to me. I see any additional rules for loot distribution as arbitrary ways of gaming the system to exclude as many people as possible to artificially increase the the chances for specific players. From a philosophical view point, my system is fair and yours is an exploit.

 

I believe if more people followed my system there wouldn't be any loot drama. Loot drama only occurs when one player believes that they should have had priority on a drop. In my system, nobody gets priority and everyone who participated in making the drop possible who wants to roll has an equal chance of winning.

[TUXs]

No change is needed. Run with friends or accept that it's random between 4, 8 or 16 players.

[Icestar]

And who provided this definition?

 

Bioware themselves back in 2012.

 

Frung: Have you considered adding a "companion" loot roll option?

 

Damion Schubert: We've discussed it and have a design for it - when we do this, we will make it so you can only roll 'need' on items that your advanced class is meant to use in one of its specs. I do not currently have an ETA on this feature.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Icestar

[Ratajack]

What I would rather is that you use the Need/Greed system as defined. Needing is for you active character, not alts, not comps, not friends, not guilds, not vendoring, not GTN. That was the purpose. That was the intent.

 

You want to say that your Alt needs the item, then you should be running with your alt... and yes, I would prefer your alt is the one you are using. That way, without a shadow of doubt, I know you aren't a GTN/Vendor Ninja just being greedy.

 

That being said, asking the group if it is ok if you need for an alt is also acceptable. If everyone is geared, or others are doing the same thing... then no problem. Saying nothing, and needing on equipment that doesn't benefit the character in the group... grounds for a kick in any group I run.

 

Unless I am mistaken, the devs have already stated that the current need/greed system was designed and intended to be used to gear companions as well as players.

 

The "social convention" seems to need for current character only, and greed all else.

 

The best thing to do is to take a few minutes before the run and communicate to ensure that all group members are on the same page with regards to looting.

 

I, personally, will roll need on gear that is an upgrade for my character and greed all else, but I do not begrudge anyone in the group the option to roll as they choose. After all, it took the whole group to drop that boss and create that piece of loot. I am no more entitled to a set of virtual pixels than anyone else in the group, no matter what stats are on that item. If another group member rolls need on an item that would be an upgrade for me, I will congratulate them if they win the roll. That item will drop again and eventually I will get it.

 

I do find, though, that "social convention" seems to be related to group role many times. More often than not, tanks with whom I have been grouped want every tanking piece and how dare anyone roll on that tanking piece, but they also want DPS items and even healing items for their companions. They usually attempt to bully the group by threatening to drop group and make the group wait for a replacement tank if they do not get that DPS or healing piece. It seems that the shortage of tanks has given many tanks the impression that they can set their own rules.

 

I have seen a few healers with a similar attitude, although that attitude is far less frequent among healers, in my experience.

 

DPS seems to get the short end of the stick as they are the easiest to replace.

[Heat-Wave]

What I would rather is that you use the Need/Greed system as defined. Needing is for you active character, not alts, not comps, not friends, not guilds, not vendoring, not GTN. That was the purpose. That was the intent.

 

Says who? You? Who died and put you in charge?

 

I really don't get my panties in a wad over it, I need on stuff I need and greed on stuff I dont. I don't pay too much attention to other people, unless I see endless needing on everything. Even then, most of it is vendor trash, does it really matter?

 

In any case, with most PUG GF groups that I get into, most people do greed on most stuff. When someone is needing, they usually are the lowest geared player there, they probably do need it more than I do.

[Ratajack]

Bioware themselves back in 2012.

 

Frung: Have you considered adding a "companion" loot roll option?

 

Damion Schubert: We've discussed it and have a design for it - when we do this, we will make it so you can only roll 'need' on items that your advanced class is meant to use in one of its specs. I do not currently have an ETA on this feature.

 

I question why they have not implemented this in the over 30 months since that statement. After all, they said they already had the design for it.

 

Is it more difficult to code than they expected? Could it be that they want to leave the option to roll need for companions and/or alts in place?

 

I don't know. Only the devs know and they have not said anything in over 30 months about this.

 

If you want to use any loot rules other than the default, maybe take a few minutes to ensure that all group members are on the same page.

[BrittneyNB]

I think the whole alt issue could be solved by doing the following:

1) Pick a single alt at the start of the run. Doesn't matter if you have 900 alts, pick ONE.

2) Declare it to the others at the start of the Ops. "Hey guys, I am maxed out on SW gear, so I will not be rolling need for SW. However, I will be rolling need on tank BH gear. "

3) If people rage, offer to bring your undergeared BH to the Ops group and watch the fireworks.

 

That's a single, simple switch. One to One.

 

On the other hand, rolling need on every alt you have? Eff that. Kick 'em.

 

Exactly this. This is what KTap was saying, but was flamed as a troll before giving up.

[Heat-Wave]

Bioware themselves back in 2012.

 

Frung: Have you considered adding a "companion" loot roll option?

 

Damion Schubert: We've discussed it and have a design for it - when we do this, we will make it so you can only roll 'need' on items that your advanced class is meant to use in one of its specs. I do not currently have an ETA on this feature.

 

Yes, and considering that we have almost a completely new dev team, the game has gone F2P, and we now have Legacy, that info is badly out of date.

 

It is apporaching 2015, if they haven't changed it by now...

[JimG]

Highly doubt they'll change this. Just call the person out and throw them on your ignore list after the run is over. You'll never be matched up with them in group-finder again. If that's how they play the game, then eventually they'll be the one on the fleet complaining about queue times because so many people have them blocked from grouping up.

[undiess]

Only way to fix this is to go to tokens, just like the events. Only way to make it fair and not trust the community to be fair themselves.

[Drockter]

Says who? You? Who died and put you in charge?

 

That has always been the accepted definition, since the loot rule was established. Bioware (at least at one time) also agrees (see the link above), they took it a step further (although never implemented) to say they would want to restrict Needs to gear specifically designed for the AC, not just main stat.

 

If I formed the Ops group, you join... yep... I am in charge. Don't like the loot rules established (always communicated in a run I form)... leave. If you form a group, and I join... you get to set your loot rules for your run...

 

The person I responded asked if "people would rather"... and yes I would rather.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Drockter

[Icestar]

Yes, and considering that we have almost a completely new dev team, the game has gone F2P, and we now have Legacy, that info is badly out of date.

 

It is apporaching 2015, if they haven't changed it by now...

 

It is true that they changed alot of DEVs during the years. I am as surprised as anyone that they have never commented on this since february 2012 eventhough thousands of posts has touched this topic.

 

But they must have thought about it, I do not think they simply forget stuff when they change DEVs. There must be some kind of notes and thoughts they leave behind.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Icestar

[Heat-Wave]

That has always been the accepted definition, since the loot rule was established. Bioware (at least at one time) also agrees (see the link above), they took it a step further (although never implemented) to say they would want to restrict Needs to gear specifically designed for the AC, not just main stat.

 

If I formed the Ops group, you join... yep... I am in charge. Don't like the loot rules established (always communicated in a run I form)... leave. If you form a group, and I join... you get to set your loot rules for your run...

 

The person I responded asked if "people would rather"... and yes I would rather.

 

Accepted by whom? I disagree that you can call them "accepted". This thread shows that there are many different views.

 

Formed ops groups are a bit different than GF PUGs as well. I generally only form ops groups with guildies, and it just isn't a problem then. GF PUG runs? Meh, the only rules are the rules in the game.

 

I already posted what I do in such cases, I try not to get all upset at what others do. Most of it is vendor junk anyway these days.

[Ratajack]

Only way to fix this is to go to tokens, just like the events. Only way to make it fair and not trust the community to be fair themselves.

 

There are other ways to "fix" the looting issues.

 

One way would be to give every member of the group an identical drop. This keeps the RNG factor involved while removing the drama about player A stealing some virtual pixels from player B.

 

If you're in BT and the willpower robe drops, every member of the group gets a willpower robe, for example. Any sorcerers or assassins can use it, and any other classes can either sell it or use it for companions.

[Heat-Wave]

It is true that they changed alot of DEVs during the years. I am as surprised as anyone that they have never commented on this since february 2012 eventhough thousands of posts has touched this topic.

 

But they must have thought about it, I do not think they simply forget stuff when they change DEVs. There must be some kind of notes and thoughts they leave behind.

 

All fair points. They are removing skill trees, so anything is possible.

[Icestar]

Most of it is vendor junk anyway these days.

 

Not in the upcomming expansion, some of us has up to 22 characters on a server to gear up.

 

I would still never roll need on anything for one of my alts though

[Heat-Wave]

There are other ways to "fix" the looting issues.

 

One way would be to give every member of the group an identical drop. This keeps the RNG factor involved while removing the drama about player A stealing some virtual pixels from player B.

 

If you're in BT and the willpower robe drops, every member of the group gets a willpower robe, for example. Any sorcerers or assassins can use it, and any other classes can either sell it or use it for companions.

 

I would run more group content if that was the solution, it would make it easier to gear alts.

 

/signed

[Heat-Wave]

Not in the upcomming expansion, some of us has up to 22 characters on a server to gear up.

 

I would still never roll need on anything for one of my alts though

 

Perhaps... My mains are in 180 gear, entry level ops gear will be 186, I'm already more or less ready for those.

 

If 186 stuff drops, I'll greed it for companions before I waste it upgrading 180 to 186.

 

And I'm at 20 toons, will be at 22 thanks to 12x XP, so I understand the situation.

[Icestar]

I would run more group content if that was the solution, it would make it easier to gear alts.

 

/signed

 

I remember that somewhere years ago I read about that each boss has a certain "points" equal to the difficulty of the encounter. Small bosses drop fewer gear and hard bosses drop more gear and some extreme bosses even drop excellent gear not easy to come by.

 

This is not confirmed though, it is something I have picked up since pre-launch but it does sound logical.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Icestar

[Ratajack]

It is true that they changed alot of DEVs during the years. I am as surprised as anyone that they have never commented on this since february 2012 eventhough thousands of posts has touched this topic.

 

But they must have thought about it, I do not think they simply forget stuff when they change DEVs. There must be some kind of notes and thoughts they leave behind.

 

True, but only they know for sure if they "thought about it and decided to leave it the way it is".

 

The total silence on this matter and the lack of the talked about change, one for which they already had a design, being implemented in almost three years, leads me to believe that they simply do not plan to make that change in the foreseeable future, though.

[Icestar]

True, but only they know for sure if they "thought about it and decided to leave it the way it is".

 

The total silence on this matter and the lack of the talked about change, one for which they already had a design, being implemented in almost three years, leads me to believe that they simply do not plan to make that change in the foreseeable future, though.

 

They have said over and over again that they want to communicate with the playerbase.

 

They can easily drop a few lines here explaining what is going on. They have responded to questions in the past with "this is being worked on" or "this is something on the to do list, but we do not see it in a near future" to "this is something that will never be implemented".

 

Most say communication is the key regarding loot, it is the key for the playerbase to know once and for all.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Icestar