Wherein Ellie rethinks her reaction to concerns over 12xXP

[Declan_Vee]

We can blame 12x EXP for the lack of player knowledge, but I'd contend that 12x EXP has NOTHING to do with the KDY PUG problem, and everything to do with the design of role-neutral bolstered flashpoints.

 

People with 12x EXP are NOT the ones running KDY, because such would dramatically hinder their leveling speed. People that have 12x EXP are the ones sticking to storyline quests.

 

Shh... You're making sense.

[Oyranos]

it is a problem, ive said it a week ago... People dont even know how to stealth and cc an npc.

[hadoken]

it is a problem, ive said it a week ago... People dont even know how to stealth and cc an npc.

 

Which is ironically something they'd be more inclined to learn in rushing through with 12xp to avoid mobs than in existing PUG group content.

[hchsiao]

I don't think 12x xp is the problem, not all players play the game at same way such read/search the class. In your case, they don't research and watch boss fight video and pretend they know the fight.

 

I mean before 12x xp event, there already are people whom have no idea every class have interrupt skills and they need to use it as there were always people complain class story boss fights are too hard because they don't interrupt boss skill and be one shoot by boss.

[AlaricSevGirl]

I don't think 12x xp is the problem, not all players play the game at same way such read/search the class. In your case, they don't research and watch boss fight video and pretend they know the fight.

 

I mean before 12x xp event, there already are people whom have no idea every class have interrupt skills and they need to use it as there were always people complain class story boss fights are too hard because they don't interrupt boss skill and be one shoot by boss.

 

The problem is...especially for new players...not using the interrupt but knowing when the boss is doing his big move. It isn't always as simple as saying use interrupt as much as learn when to interrupt and sometimes it is so damned fast that you're down before you even knew the boss was throwing it.

[Jedi_riches]

People who don't know what they are doing (or roles at least) is not a new problem, but it does become more of an issue when xp boost events happen as it entices a whole new batch of new players to start playing.

 

Personally I only have 1 level 55 at the moment with a load of mid lowbies for the other classs, so I am relieved that I can skip the planet quests to level quickly plus it makes more sense for certain classes (e.g. Imperial Agent should be under cover on Balmorra with rebels so why would he risk his cover to perform work for the Empire).

[hchsiao]

The problem is...especially for new players...not using the interrupt but knowing when the boss is doing his big move. It isn't always as simple as saying use interrupt as much as learn when to interrupt and sometimes it is so damned fast that you're down before you even knew the boss was throwing it.

 

I suppose. I guess I am just use to it since I played wow for long time and have been on tranq shot duty since MC day.

[Suromir]

This 12x thing really has brought out terrible players. I typically only run KDY at random times for the comms and a break from story missions. However the longer this event has gone on the more and more terrible players I run into at higher levels.

 

Players that have no clue how to play their class, still use knockbacks in groups, don't listen and stand in boss farts..and then get offensive and respond with insults when you kindly point out things or ask they stop x y or z behavior.

 

Lat run was a guy that was a sorcerer...unloaded on mobs and then started yelling for heals....even though he saw (this was KDY) we were ALL DPS....after the fight, and his death, I (nicely) said we were all DPS (as he kept saying he was dps not heals) and that as a sorc, in KDY, even his crappy heals were enough to get us through...that I had done it many times on my sorc..and Trooper/BH in DPS specs.....not one bit of sarcasm or anything was in what I said. But he responds with insults and general arrogance in knowing his "role"

 

So it devolved into an argument...so I just put him on ignore and told him to learn his class between zerging story missions. Which was about the only offensive thing I said to him.

 

It's terrible, hopefully most of these people learn before we return to the status quo or they start doing harder stuff (HMs/OPs) but...man this event has brought out the terrible players.

[Kalfear]

Players that have no clue how to play their class, still use knockbacks in groups, .

 

LOL other day I just stopped trying to use my AOE as was in a group where EVERY TIME we managed to stack mobs for my AOE this one DPS guy who would hit his knock back sending them outta the aoe radius the minute any mob got with in range of him. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

Drives me freaking batty.

 

But what can you do but hope they eventually understand why you shouldn't be using your knockbacks (unless your a healer, healers get a free pass some of times on that one) as a defensive ability when in groups.

[thewitchdoctor]

Drives me freaking batty.

 

The other day I was knocking out a TFP and got Rakata Prime on my marauder. I had an assassin tank, 55, in dark charge, and should have had wither ... grouped with 2 melee DPS ... and he used knockback on cooldown. I finally asked him why. He said, 'It's my best threat gen.' I just said, OKey Dokey. (Judging by how much the other DPS and I were tanking, i.e., all but in 6-second increments, it obviously wasn't). The jugg DPS whispered me to say that he too is driven batty by tanks that go out of their way to not just push mobs out of an AOE cluster but out of melee range of themselves and their DPS.

 

EDIT: for clarity, we actually had a Trinity group! 2 DPS, 1 'tank' and 1 healer.

Edited October 24, 2014 by thewitchdoctor

[Gleneagle]

This 12x thing really has brought back terrible players.

Fixed that.

 

I'm recently returned but the 12X buff was a surprise that arrived a week later. I'm seeing much more activity now than I was seeing before the expansion was offered with the 12X bonus.

 

Even if there are many more unpracticed/short memoried players there are surely more good players arriving as well.

 

Maybe it will all balance out for the better?

Edited October 24, 2014 by Gleneagle

[hadoken]

Fixed that.

 

I'm recently returned but the 12X buff was a surprise that arrived a week later. I'm seeing much more activity now than I was seeing before the expansion was offered with the 12X bonus.

 

Even if there are many more unpracticed/short memoried players there are surely more good players arriving as well.

 

Maybe it will all balance out for the better?

 

I just don't buy the 12x xp guys are actually doing group content, that's counter productive to the event. I mean, maybe at max level if they're not starting another alt but it isn't as if you had to level to 55 doing flashpoints before either. So really, same sort of people that have always been there.

[leihn]

Did you rage quit Skyrim because the Devs weren't letting you play it your way?

 

Eh, no one who bought skyrim expected to play it that way.

 

I can't be sure that's true of SWTOR tbh, they did market the rich campaign based storyline progression as one of the selling points and used the companion system to encourage that players who didn't want to group wouldn't be left behind.

 

Similar to how Star Citizen has been consistent in their dialog that their game will be enjoyable for solo players as well as group players.

 

tbh, having played years of WoW in progression guilds on an RP PVE server, it isn't what the experiences people have that turns them into good players, it's the mindset of wanting to be a good player, all the information is available out there on how to gear, how to perform optimal rotations, what types of consumables help you the most, and mechanics of fights, but there will always be people who show up in the casual areas of the game who don't care about any of that stuff and just want to play the game their way and they're certainly entitled to do so.

 

You can't say that MMOs should only be for elitistjerk (site) style players, there's gonna be people out there who just want to Role Play their Jedi and don't care about the aspects involved in being 'good' at their class.

[Orizuru]

Even if they are doing group content there still isn't a clear path of cause and effect that proves the experience bonus is making them bad players. Its just another stereo-type that people who don't want to help other players learn how to play the game better use as a crutch to justify not being more helpful.

 

Its a lot easier for players to complain about the bads and find scape-goats for why the bads exist than it is to try and help a bad player be better. I think this mentality is one of the primary contributing factors to why so many gaming communities have become so vitriolic towards new and inexperienced players.

[Deewe]

The other day I was knocking out a TFP and got Rakata Prime on my marauder. I had an assassin tank, 55, in dark charge, and should have had wither ... grouped with 2 melee DPS ... and he used knockback on cooldown. I finally asked him why. He said, 'It's my best threat gen.' I just said, OKey Dokey. (Judging by how much the other DPS and I were tanking, i.e., all but in 6-second increments, it obviously wasn't). The jugg DPS whispered me to say that he too is driven batty by tanks that go out of their way to not just push mobs out of an AOE cluster but out of melee range of themselves and their DPS.

 

EDIT: for clarity, we actually had a Trinity group! 2 DPS, 1 'tank' and 1 healer.

I just hate when people knockback without proper thinking.

 

 

As an assassin tank the KB is mostly used to push multiple mobs away from the healer or to fall down edges. Because as a DPS it kills me to see a hit interrupted because the mob(s) are now out of reach.

 

 

As a jug tank AoE KD obliges me to actually walk, slowly, to the mob I needed to hit and too often it breaks the hit I was going to land. Then it totally messes my pull. So instead of having the mobs nicely displayed how I wanted them to be, either to facilitate AoE or separate one or two mobs form the group, I actually have to mitigate the mess. Which usually happen when my skills are on CD.

 

So when I'm playing a Jug I'm rarely using push unless the group I have the feeling the group I'm playing with is good enough to get how I add this to my tanking tactics.

[Suromir]

Fixed that.

 

I'm recently returned but the 12X buff was a surprise that arrived a week later. I'm seeing much more activity now than I was seeing before the expansion was offered with the 12X bonus.

 

Even if there are many more unpracticed/short memoried players there are surely more good players arriving as well.

 

Maybe it will all balance out for the better?

 

no you didn't "fix" anything. I said what I meant. My statement covers new and returning players. But at least you did something that made you feel better about yourself, huh?

 

I love when people do dumb stuff like re-word a post and type "fixed it." Shows nothing but self-centered stupidity.

[Leen_]

The trick is with KDY is that you get bolstered (at least 15 to 54) so most don't realize that once you get to 55 u lose that bolster effect.(and people might not realize that it doesn't exist in other FP's too)

 

I know i played 2 characters doing KDY (one trooper(tired of doing it a second time) and one IA (just wanted to be able to play the story without re-gearing) so i got a lot of different players some really good at what they did and some that didn't know what way to point the rifle.

 

Now with 12xXP i can honestly say I've been doing the story arc only to level up and if it wasn't for my alts i would be SO under geared i would die a lot but the XP makes it so i don't worry about FP's (though i have been using a lot more of the powers that are underused in any given class since i have to make up for the lack of armor protection and health)

[TUXs]

I just don't buy the 12x xp guys are actually doing group content, that's counter productive to the event. I mean, maybe at max level if they're not starting another alt but it isn't as if you had to level to 55 doing flashpoints before either. So really, same sort of people that have always been there.

I completely agree with this. Why would someone go off and do KDY for 30 minutes vs. gaining 2-3 levels by doing class quests in that same amount of time?

 

People are trying to blame 12x XP for bad players...I just don't agree with that at all. Bad players are why there are bad players, not 12x XP.

[Gleneagle]

no you didn't "fix" anything. I said what I meant. My statement covers new and returning players. But at least you did something that made you feel better about yourself, huh?

 

I love when people do dumb stuff like re-word a post and type "fixed it." Shows nothing but self-centered stupidity.

Your spandex is clearly too tight this morning. Your estimation of my intelligence is limited by your own.

[Arkerus]

I completely agree with this. Why would someone go off and do KDY for 30 minutes vs. gaining 2-3 levels by doing class quests in that same amount of time?

 

People are trying to blame 12x XP for bad players...I just don't agree with that at all. Bad players are why there are bad players, not 12x XP.

 

Pretty much this. This thread is another attempt to blame the system when the system really has nothing to do with it.

 

There is nothing stopping "bad" players (not sure who makes the call on that) from playing in any aspect of the game at any time. Just because an event allows people to level faster does not mean the event creates bad players. They are completely separate issues. Too often human beings, in general, refuse to acknowledge the obvious. In this case the "obvious" is that some players just don't understand the complexities in MMOs. People try to blame something else instead. Why? I don't know I assume it is beyond their mental capacity to understand that some people just haven't learned something yet or just aren't good at it.

 

MMOs are no longer the playground of the hardcore. They are open to all walks of life. They are played by people who log in for a few hours and by people who live in their basement and play 24 hours a day.

 

"Bad" players are everywhere and the event has nothing to do with it.

[EllieAnne]

I just don't buy the 12x xp guys are actually doing group content, that's counter productive to the event. I mean, maybe at max level if they're not starting another alt but it isn't as if you had to level to 55 doing flashpoints before either. So really, same sort of people that have always been there.

 

Not necessarily. I ran an operative through just story mode and got about 2 levels behind (33 vs 35) and popped an XP tab and ran KDY four times. I think that is pretty common advice on this forum.

[Cernow]

LOL other day I just stopped trying to use my AOE as was in a group where EVERY TIME we managed to stack mobs for my AOE this one DPS guy who would hit his knock back sending them outta the aoe radius the minute any mob got with in range of him. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

 

Drives me freaking batty.

 

But what can you do but hope they eventually understand why you shouldn't be using your knockbacks (unless your a healer, healers get a free pass some of times on that one) as a defensive ability when in groups.

 

Agreed.

 

But it's a design flaw for knockback abilities to also have them do damage. You'll notice it's mostly force users who are guilty of knocking mobs out of aoe because their knockback does more damage. Tech knockbacks deal less damage and are more about 'get away from me'.

 

Beats me why a melee force user needs a push rather than a pull anyway, but that's another discussion.

[Gleneagle]

People try to blame something else instead. Why? I don't know I assume it is beyond their mental capacity to understand that some people just haven't learned something yet or just aren't good at it

Trying to pin it on mental capacity is still an attempt to avoid placing responsibility on the person. The tendency isn't in any way new: I see it at the organizational level all the time where somehow everything good that happens everyone claims and everything bad is either systemic or the responsibility of the least powerful teammate in any other department. If we get fat it isn't because we don't exercise, it isn't because we didn't mind our caloric intake, it is because of someone or something besides our own self-control. If we have an accident it is always either the machine, someone else's negligence, or nobody told the customer fresh brewed coffee is very hot. Or 'I'm sorry our network/computers are down right now could you call back another day?'. Or it was Lag did it.

 

If you are in PvP and someone loses it is always 'my sucky team' and 'I could only do so much' and never a mention of maybe the other team just played a better match.

 

It is a cultural thing. It isn't my fault the people in <starving nation> are hungry because I really want this stack of ten pancakes runny with butter and pure maple syrup and oh yes please pass that good English style bacon. Give to charity? No way I'm not going to coddle the losers: I got mine let them fend for themselves. It is all wrapped up together. Human beings are selfish and self-centered by nature.

 

It is only with self-discipline that we achieve good outcomes.

 

Just be sure and listen to my words without examining how I live, k? Thx: Bye

Edited October 24, 2014 by Gleneagle

[Larsenex]

Pretty much this. This thread is another attempt to blame the system when the system really has nothing to do with it.

 

There is nothing stopping "bad" players (not sure who makes the call on that) from playing in any aspect of the game at any time. Just because an event allows people to level faster does not mean the event creates bad players. They are completely separate issues. Too often human beings, in general, refuse to acknowledge the obvious. In this case the "obvious" is that some players just don't understand the complexities in MMOs. People try to blame something else instead. Why? I don't know I assume it is beyond their mental capacity to understand that some people just haven't learned something yet or just aren't good at it.

 

MMOs are no longer the playground of the hardcore. They are open to all walks of life. They are played by people who log in for a few hours and by people who live in their basement and play 24 hours a day.

 

"Bad" players are everywhere and the event has nothing to do with it.

 

 

^^^ Nailed it.

[Lotharofxev]

Just want to add this little nugget:

 

Guildy's alt is on Oricon. Now, guildy will tell you that his Operative (toon in question) is "slightly undergeared". 31k health, mix of 156-168's, 2 x 180 Barrel.

 

Alt spots a level 55 Sorc - 13.9 k health. In greens. Later he spots another Operative 14.1k, also in greens. As he said, " I just hope they were doing the missions for gear. But W - T - F, I had that much health at 50, much less 53."