Things Veteran Players Wish Newbs Knew

[Dras_Keto]

If you want to make your own thread telling all the infiltration shadows and deception assassins of the world to spend 2 seconds casting a relatively weak ability that has zero pushback protection and no buffs whatsoever in the middle of a warzone, go for it. Just stop polluting this one with your nonsense.

 

Ah, but the healer should always be focussed, no?

 

Not necessarily. You dont want to let them jsut stand there and free cast but what about the guy going after your own healer? Or the jerk who insists on standing on the objective clicking it over and over and over again even though there are 4 enemies standing right next to him.

 

Plus, who is easier to kill? The guarded healer or that sage who already barrier'd a couple minutes ago? Leaning how and when to target swap, when to try and overwhelm a guarded target, all of that is part of the learning process.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Dras_Keto

[DomiSotto]

These are all very, very good tips. Some of that are not just the beginner material. Now, for an absolute beginner, and that’s my kind of a beginner (never played a MMO/real time action game of any kind ever. Seriously, I saw a person run and shoot for the first time on L52…), here are the things that I wish I knew immediately upon the character creation, not had to look them up via Google! It is extremely basic, positively complete ground zero; I don’t mean to insult anyone’s intelligence! (Ducks).

 

Positioning, LoS and Environment.

 

While a lot of parts of this game allow you to run at the target and engage into a fight, it pays a big time to interact with the foes and the environment. There are abilities you can activate when you are moving, and when you are facing away from the target. And there are ones that you can’t. For example, backstub doesn’t require you to look at the target’s back, you can simply be behind. Objects between your character and the target may prevent you from attacking the target. And it works both way. LoS is a line of sight – you will gain a respite from the foe if it cannot see you. However, you cannot use off-combat heal while they are still ‘in combat’ just medpacks and innate heal spells (and, if using companion, put him/her in passive – they will immediately move to your side and stop suiciding away). Using the environment to your advantage to shield yourself behind the objects, sitting yourself high up, or pressing your back against an object to avoid a backstub attack is a Good Thing.

 

Kiting and Strafe

 

Kiting refers to running around staying just out of range of the character chasing you. If your range is better than the foe’s you can additionally be doing damage while the foe can’t touch you, not just avoid damage and/or provide attacking opportunities to teammates. Strafe refers to simultaneously turning your character to face the kited opponent so you can activate more damaging attacks while at it. It is keybound for you for 2 buttons on the left hand, and sort of jerks your character to the right or left, changing the facing/moving direction at the same time.

 

Preferences and Interface Editor

Manage your real estate and GUI. Lay it out, try it on an overlevelled enemies, see where your eyes are for you to see the important information, such as Bad Things on you and a friendly Target or your foe loading up that spell that’s gonna hurt, increasethe size of the healing bars, add percentages to them, increase the zoom out – wow, there many options…

 

Interrupts, CC and Cleanses

 

I know, the OP said to interrupt and cleanse, but I don’t think that’s enough discussion and would actually ask the OP or other participants to discuss the main and auxiliary interrupts; the types of DoT damages and what can and cannot be cleansed. As someone who wants to try to learn a healer next I am very interested in Cleansing as, yes, that seems to take the second stage to the healing spells, but it is an important mitigation tool.

 

Similarly I am always an avid reader of a discussion on Roots, Hard Stuns and Mezzes, and one day I hope someone as talented as the Author of a Pyrotec comic adaptation of Pyrotech guide would actually create a full list of CC’s that ye shall leave alone with illustrations of how CC’d character looks like when afflicted. As a general rule, if a character is not moving, is bent over and has some vague vaporish, cloudish thinggie around him, I try to become extra careful about target selection around it (game has some interesting ideas on what the nearest and centre screen enemy is (I bubble half population of any given planet routinely). Yes, it saddens me too, when someone just doesn't appreciate the cunning that went into my Flashbang of the healer

 

Double Tap.

 

AoE spells can be hard to shake off the end of your pointer in just the right congregation of foes, particulary when it slopes. If you target a foe and quickly double-tap your AoE (so keybind it to single letter), it will centre on that foe. Awesome, right?! Unfortunately, in Huttball, as I have just learned today, it passes the ball to the opposite team. Oh, noes. L Pointer away the huttball.

[_NovaBlast_]

I only read the first couple sections, but I would never point a new player to this thread. I suggest you delete and apologize to the community. (snip)

. Better to write up a list of basics, vs stating in absolutes things that aren't absolute. Maybe you get into something useful later, but it wasn't worth the read.

 

I second this this is just another post form e lites trying to to get to play they way t hey want to .

Random queues are for all players you get what you get . If you can't handle that and want a fully elite team play with friends

 

My advice to new player don't listen to meta dictators. Play the way you have fun if that means spamming force quake or playing mele when the the meta says ranged or the other way around do that .

[LyraineAlei]

That sounds like a good idea as long as BW has the same notion as the players as to how the classes 'should' be played. If they don't have the same idea can you imagine all the forum drama that would ensue?

 

It would be a basic run of quests, much like how we learn the basics of fighting in 1-10. Or just one, where for each spec you can use, it will have you (for the moment) as spec'd for the role (ex. PT, tank/dps) and for one round it'll have you spec'd for one way (ex still. dPS) to practice DPSing, then round two would have the other spec up (for this ex. Still, Tank, or the other DPS branch) to practice that role. Three stages, auto-spec'ing you for those three stages, and then at the end, you get un-spec'd and you spec yourself the way YOU want to. Could even be tied to the Choose Your AC Quest. In the PT example, you could practice tanking with Mako, dpsing with Mako, or replace the companion with a droid for the tutorial part.

 

And BW does have an idea, hence why they are making sure that hybrid specs can't happen, and making the Discipline System.

 

Of course, a tutorial wouldn't be very good anyway in this game. Look at the StarFighter one, it gives you no real way of working out how the PvP aspect goes. It just teaches you how to drive for the basics and nothing else.

[Warrgames]

I've shared this thread so many times over the past couple days. I wish I could macro it.

[Orizuru]

After reading a few new topics on this forum today, I'm thinking this guide could benefit from a section about keybinding, toolbar swapping, and using UI Preferences.

 

And by keybinding, I don't mean opening the keybinding vs clicking debate. I simply mean a how to for those interested.

[Ryuku-sama]

After reading a few new topics on this forum today, I'm thinking this guide could benefit from a section about keybinding, toolbar swapping, and using UI Preferences.

 

And by keybinding, I don't mean opening the keybinding vs clicking debate. I simply mean a how to for those interested.

 

This is too complicated since you must think about how the player is comfortable with using shift ctrl and alt (I hate it and never use them for my rotationnal skill only for my DCD and some OCD), how he prefers targeting (tab or something else), what hardware he has, etc... Honestly, keybinding is something that change for each person.. In the two years I have played this game, I have gone through 10 different ways to binds my stuff as I tried to make it as easy as I could for me and as intuitive and reactive as possible. ANd my way is far from one most people use if I'm to believe all keybinding guide avaible around.

[Dras_Keto]

After reading a few new topics on this forum today, I'm thinking this guide could benefit from a section about keybinding, toolbar swapping, and using UI Preferences.

 

And by keybinding, I don't mean opening the keybinding vs clicking debate. I simply mean a how to for those interested.

 

Yeah, I was working on it, and I was nearly done with it too, and then my computer decided to have a brain fart and because I was a noob and didnt save my work periodically, its all gone now and I have to rewrite it.

 

But, because Im all pissed off about it, Im probably going to wait a little while....

 

Edit, and apparently, this reset all of MY UI options in tor... hurray...

Edited October 24, 2014 by Dras_Keto

[DomiSotto]

Orizuru, Ryuku-sama is right in that it's very individual undertaking and takes quite some time to develop a layout that works for you. And pikc the options. The main thing is to start! Maybe if you take a look, and try a little, you can ask questions. I know I got a lot of help on targeting and it took me forever to understand that Focus Target is not the same at all as focusing someone Here is a few issues I ran into, going from ground zero

 

1. Initially binding turns you into a blind person and feels cumbersome. Then it’s awesome. If you can touch type, it helps, but I find that my hand positioning is different anyway. The main thing is not to give up and try not to go by halves. I tend to on the chars I am not used to, and it always ends up as a mess!

 

2. Keybinds are divided into 2 categories: Targeting/Movements and Quickbars, with the ones that are used in targeting being invisible to a player, so you need to remember them (no, really!). The visible ones, you can reconfirm once you logged on the char, but for the invisible ones... HARD! I have a sticky on my desk that specifies what I use for, say, Target of Target and Focused Target’s Target on the char I run at the time. (My game-desk has sticky notes, reference cards with builds and a selection of guides… I am hopeless w/o it.)

 

3. The targeting options that I found to be the most useful are:

a. Acquire Focus + Focus Modifier. This one makes playing dual-roled character into a seamless uninterrupted action stream. Heal & Bubble tank under Modifier, back to channeling lightening at the add, no changing targets at all. Beauty.

b. As a DPS and a Tank, I am learning to focus enemies by mooching targets of either my Focus or simply the nearest friend by Target of Target and Focused Target’s Target

c. I use Target Self, Target Nearest and Next for Friends, F2 is default for nearest friend, Tab for next friend, and I like it that way. I am not overly fond of the next/nearest on the Enemy, I prefer to pick one that makes sense/is focused, marked etc

d. I also bind “Centre screen enemy” to my 3rd Mouse Button to make movement and ‘chose your target’ targeting all tied to my right hand

 

4. While at first it seemed like a good idea to use the same binds for everyone’s similar abilities, I found that depending on the role and class it is better to lay out each character separately and treat each as a piece of music, that is played by touch. I have a few exceptions, and try to bind interrupt, shielding/cloaking, self-heal and shove-away on the same buttons. I also try to bind mirror abilities the same way, like Force Speed.

 

5. My most important ‘NOW’ are on the 2 side buttons of my mouse. Taunt on the tank, interrupt/cleans on a Healer, drop into cover/roll for a Slinger, things like that. I am right-handed so I use the left part of the board to bind everything I use in combat (a rhomboid limited by 1-6, Z-B) with 24 binds on single button keys and 12 binds on Shift. I use Alt’d for acquiring targets, leave Ctrl alone because a lot of defaults hang on it and because on my keyboard, the finger bends at an unnatural angle when using Ctrl.

 

6. I re-mapped default ‘character screen’ “C” to “U”, and open my stronghold from the top bar. Similar, I purged anything superfluous, like sitting down, from that sacred space needed for quick combat. Honestly, I am debating to using U for something other than the character screen as well.

 

7. I try to lay out the opening rotation in 1-6, and the most important spells on QWERTY

 

8. I try to bind the ‘freebie’ ability in a simple reach of the one that procs it

 

9. All AoE spells and aids (grenades, huttball) are on single buttons, to enable the double click use on targets, ‘cause my ability to shake off the end of the pointer in just the right place is poor.

 

10. I also move all the spells that will be cast with a modifier so I can actually reach them, while pressing the modifier (don’t ask me how I know that some people just don’t have great wrist mobility). For example, binding T to Rejuvenate on a Healer is a bad idea for me, as I will never throw it on the tank in time & without looking down.

 

11. Interface can be scaled, so once I got used to binds, I downsized it so I have more Real Estate on the screen,

plus I moved things around a few times so I actually pay attention to my Health/State (wow, death… that was so sudden!), my Focus, my Enemy and my Ops Frame. You have to find the eye position that works for you, and you can check at a quick glance…

 

12. Finally, every time I relay out the character, I go and check it out on the trash mobs. Every time I get a new ability or my rotation changes, I train it on the trash mobs. Just how bad I can be is between those Rakghouls and moi. I move abilitiesaround to allow for an easy finger moves between rotations.

 

13. Anything that I want on the screen but don’t need in combat or is one-use is on the right side bar for an occasional mouse-over when out of combat or right before

 

14. Strafe… not there yet. I find it the most difficult skill to learn: adjusting facing with 2 buttons, while moving the mouse, while also attacking simultaneously with another button and staying out of range. I have my doubts I can pick it up at all.

[Ryuku-sama]

Orizuru, Ryuku-sama is right in that it's very individual undertaking and takes quite some time to develop a layout that works for you.

And pikc the options. The main thing is to start! Maybe if you take a look, and try a little, you can ask questions. I know I got a lot of help on targeting and it took me forever to understand that Focus Target is not the same at all as focusing someone Here is a few issues I ran into, going from ground zero

 

1. Initially binding turns you into a blind person and feels cumbersome. Then it’s awesome. If you can touch type, it helps, but I find that my hand positioning is different anyway. The main thing is not to give up and try not to go by halves. I tend to on the chars I am not used to, and it always ends up as a mess!

 

2. Keybinds are divided into 2 categories: Targeting/Movements and Quickbars, with the ones that are used in targeting being invisible to a player, so you need to remember them (no, really!). The visible ones, you can reconfirm once you logged on the char, but for the invisible ones... HARD! I have a sticky on my desk that specifies what I use for, say, Target of Target and Focused Target’s Target on the char I run at the time. (My game-desk has sticky notes, reference cards with builds and a selection of guides… I am hopeless w/o it.)

 

3. The targeting options that I found to be the most useful are:

a. Acquire Focus + Focus Modifier. This one makes playing dual-roled character into a seamless uninterrupted action stream. Heal & Bubble tank under Modifier, back to channeling lightening at the add, no changing targets at all. Beauty.

b. As a DPS and a Tank, I am learning to focus enemies by mooching targets of either my Focus or simply the nearest friend by Target of Target and Focused Target’s Target

c. I use Target Self, Target Nearest and Next for Friends, F2 is default for nearest friend, Tab for next friend, and I like it that way. I am not overly fond of the next/nearest on the Enemy, I prefer to pick one that makes sense/is focused, marked etc

d. I also bind “Centre screen enemy” to my 3rd Mouse Button to make movement and ‘chose your target’ targeting all tied to my right hand

 

4. While at first it seemed like a good idea to use the same binds for everyone’s similar abilities, I found that depending on the role and class it is better to lay out each character separately and treat each as a piece of music, that is played by touch. I have a few exceptions, and try to bind interrupt, shielding/cloaking, self-heal and shove-away on the same buttons. I also try to bind mirror abilities the same way, like Force Speed.

 

5. My most important ‘NOW’ are on the 2 side buttons of my mouse. Taunt on the tank, interrupt/cleans on a Healer, drop into cover/roll for a Slinger, things like that. I am right-handed so I use the left part of the board to bind everything I use in combat (a rhomboid limited by 1-6, Z-B) with 24 binds on single button keys and 12 binds on Shift. I use Alt’d for acquiring targets, leave Ctrl alone because a lot of defaults hang on it and because on my keyboard, the finger bends at an unnatural angle when using Ctrl.

 

6. I re-mapped default ‘character screen’ “C” to “U”, and open my stronghold from the top bar. Similar, I purged anything superfluous, like sitting down, from that sacred space needed for quick combat. Honestly, I am debating to using U for something other than the character screen as well.

 

7. I try to lay out the opening rotation in 1-6, and the most important spells on QWERTY

 

8. I try to bind the ‘freebie’ ability in a simple reach of the one that procs it

 

9. All AoE spells and aids (grenades, huttball) are on single buttons, to enable the double click use on targets, ‘cause my ability to shake off the end of the pointer in just the right place is poor.

 

10. I also move all the spells that will be cast with a modifier so I can actually reach them, while pressing the modifier (don’t ask me how I know that some people just don’t have great wrist mobility). For example, binding T to Rejuvenate on a Healer is a bad idea for me, as I will never throw it on the tank in time & without looking down.

 

11. Interface can be scaled, so once I got used to binds, I downsized it so I have more Real Estate on the screen,

plus I moved things around a few times so I actually pay attention to my Health/State (wow, death… that was so sudden!), my Focus, my Enemy and my Ops Frame. You have to find the eye position that works for you, and you can check at a quick glance…

 

12. Finally, every time I relay out the character, I go and check it out on the trash mobs. Every time I get a new ability or my rotation changes, I train it on the trash mobs. Just how bad I can be is between those Rakghouls and moi. I move abilitiesaround to allow for an easy finger moves between rotations.

 

13. Anything that I want on the screen but don’t need in combat or is one-use is on the right side bar for an occasional mouse-over when out of combat or right before

 

14. Strafe… not there yet. I find it the most difficult skill to learn: adjusting facing with 2 buttons, while moving the mouse, while also attacking simultaneously with another button and staying out of range. I have my doubts I can pick it up at all.

 

First and foremost. Learn to mouse turn. go on the fleet and move with your mouse.... Only your mouse. Once you're good at it, unbind your backward (moving backward is slower than strafing) and change your turning key to strafing.

Then practice. Go on a planet where the mobs will die in only a single shot and wave around them, don,t use any attack, just move... If there are a little too much around.. kill them. Rince and do it again.

When you get the hang of it.. Bind your targeting key and your rotationnal abilities.. Play for a while like that solo.

When you don't mess up your rotation anymore.. Bind your interrupt and CC's. Then your DCD's and OCD's.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Ryuku-sama

[Zoom_VI]

Ah, but the healer should always be focussed, no?

 

No the healer should not always be focused. I have seen way to many teams fail because they burn themselves out trying to kill a guarded healer while the enemy DPS mop them up.

 

In fact I would consider a DPS a higher priority kill than a healer, healers are not what kills people, healers are not what clears nodes. The entire purpose of healers and tanks in PvP is to keep the DPS alive so that the DPS can kill the other team. If you kill the DPS there is nothing the healer can do except prolong his own evitable death.

[Syltphademus]

I second this this is just another post form e lites trying to to get to play they way t hey want to .

Random queues are for all players you get what you get . If you can't handle that and want a fully elite team play with friends

 

My advice to new player don't listen to meta dictators. Play the way you have fun if that means spamming force quake or playing mele when the the meta says ranged or the other way around do that .

 

This is a great way to get a bunch of people kicked from FPs and trolling the people that are in them. Play the way you want, but play that way right. If you're a PT, don't stand at 30 meters. You aren't doing anything.

 

This is an MMO, where you have to play with other players, which means a little bit of meshing and compromise needs to occur. Go play a regular RPG or D3 or something if you want to be the little special snowflake who does everything their own unique little way. If I see a sage spamming Forcequake on a boss for no reason other than "But that's how I play!" I'm kicking you for a real DPS who knows what they are doing and will actually contribute.

[aceavenger]

OMG yes. Especially the Guarding of the healers. I will also add watch your threat, be good DPS not stupid DPS. I can't tell you how many DPS have told me my taunt should be on CD at all times. Even in fights that have random aggro drops. Tells me they don't know how taunt really works.

[_NovaBlast_]

 

This is an MMO, where you have to play with other players, which means a little bit of meshing and compromise needs to occur. Go play a regular RPG or D3 or something if you want to be the little special snowflake who does everything their own unique little way. If I see a sage spamming Forcequake on a boss for no reason other than "But that's how I play!" I'm kicking you for a real DPS who knows what they are doing and will actually contribute.

 

bangs head on desk .. everytime i see this i know what the early explorers felt when they told other people the world is round not flat .

 

MMO DOES NOT mean you " have" to play with other people or even socialize with them . It just means there are multiple people playing at the same time. IMO player who think its compulsory have a very selfish mindset the same as the ones who expect everything to be perfect and efficient.

 

This whole thread and your post is the reason I don't group unless i'm "forced" to i was glad when they announced they were making a solo version of forged alliances I hope they continue to follow that path so players like me don't have to put of with elitism bullies. who get stressed out if thing are not running "perfectly"

 

Its about having fun on the journey. I rather have a group that is having fun and may wipe a couple times than a bunch of elite that take it way too seriously run things like it was serious real life military op.

 

Don't take that the wrong way i'm not saying there is anything "wrong" if for some reason you find that "fun" im

 

just saying don't force other in a random cue to live up to your elite expectation. No one should judge anyone in a random player function. . Unless someone is " intentionally " trying to grief other players and intentionally trying to be a negative influence. but in the few groups i have joined out of necessity i have yet to see one of those .

 

I have yet to see anyone try to "force quake" a boss but it may not be the most efficient way but its still contributing .

 

If you want to run "seriously" then find people who also enjoy running "seriously" .

 

The group events in star trek online are much better very rare do you see anyone even talking in chat and there is no vote to kick so on the rare occasion if someone does start whining you can just ignore them.

 

"grouping" should be completely optional side thing like pvp.

Edited October 25, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[Protoaloe]

I did not read ALL of it but as a 'returned' player I have an opinion on this as well:

 

If you are a "Veteran" player then that means you have played the same game for years and years and would have repeated a lot of the things over and over and over. It is like a guy that runs around a soccer field for five years and then complains about people that do not know every rock on that field, every dimple etc.

 

But those people probably travelled the world in the meantime!.

 

So what if there are noobs that do not know stuff. What? you want only Veterans to play this game?

Edited October 25, 2014 by Protoaloe
typing error

[Ryuku-sama]

I did not read ALL of it but as a 'returned' player I have an opinion on this as well:

 

If you are a "Veteran" player then that means you have played the same game for years and years and would have repeated a lot of the things over and over and over. It is like a guy that runs around a soccer field for five years and then complains about people that do not know every rock on that field, every dimple etc.

 

But those people probably travelled the world in the meantime!.

 

So what if there are noobs that do not know stuff. What? you want only Veterans to play this game?

 

That's not the problem. We can deal with noob. Hell I am a noob as far as HM/NiM ops goes... But honestly, if I get a HM team willing to take me in, I won't insult them or be an ******e. I will listen to what they have to teach.

 

In the same way. If I'm telling to the Vanguard trolling around and not contributing in the fp while my sorc is basicly DPS for two and tanking that he should be in melee range, use Stockstrike on CD and do this and that. Then I expect him to understand it. He can ask why I'm saying that. But answering something akin to "lol, n00b, L2P." Basicly means for me : /kick. Same goes for a tank not tanking, a healer not healing or any other troll.

[Dras_Keto]

"grouping" should be completely optional side thing like pvp.

 

If you are so completely against grouping, why in god's name are you playing an MMO? There are SO MANY single player games out there where you would be far happier. Where it doesnt not matter whether you are playing it "optimally" or not because it doesnt make a difference how many times you have to reload before your inane strategy works, as long as it does eventually.

 

Seriously. Why are you here? What are you getting out of this if everything about the game pisses you off?

 

I did not read ALL of it but as a 'returned' player I have an opinion on this as well:

 

If you are a "Veteran" player then that means you have played the same game for years and years and would have repeated a lot of the things over and over and over. It is like a guy that runs around a soccer field for five years and then complains about people that do not know every rock on that field, every dimple etc.

 

But those people probably travelled the world in the meantime!.

 

So what if there are noobs that do not know stuff. What? you want only Veterans to play this game?

 

What the hell do you think the point of this thread is? Let's give out a ton of helpful information that it seems a significant portion of the games population hasnt picked up on yet, or simply hasnt had the time to ...... in the hopes that they will all just leave.... Right. That makes a lot of sense....

 

Really.

 

It does.

 

Total sense.

 

Totally.

 

Like for real.

 

Word.

 

Yo.

[Dras_Keto]

Slightly more serious response.

 

If you are a "Veteran" player then that means you have played the same game for years and years and would have repeated a lot of the things over and over and over. It is like a guy that runs around a soccer field for five years and then complains about people that do not know every rock on that field, every dimple etc.

 

This is like a guy who has played on this soccer field for a while and has learned, through trial and error, most of its quirks and a lot of useful ways of navigating it and using it to his advantage (where the soccer field analogy just falls apart because it makes no sense...) and is telling people about these quirks and advantageous things because he has noticed that a great many people dont know them.

 

But those people probably travelled the world in the meantime!.

 

All of which means diddly squat in the game. Knowing how to grow and harvest rice in terraced farm plots or how to design, build, and maintain a nuclear reactor doesnt do anything at all to help you play soccer.

[_NovaBlast_]

If you are so completely against grouping, why in god's name are you playing an MMO? There are SO MANY single player games out there where you would be far happier. Where it doesnt not matter whether you are playing it "optimally" or not because it doesnt make a difference how many times you have to reload before your inane strategy works, as long as it does eventually.

 

Seriously. Why are you here? What are you getting out of this if everything about the game pisses you off?

 

 

 

What the hell do you think the point of this thread is? Let's give out a ton of helpful information that it seems a significant portion of the games population hasnt picked up on yet, or simply hasnt had the time to ...... in the hopes that they will all just leave.... Right. That makes a lot of sense....

 

Really.

 

It does.

 

Total sense.

 

Totally.

 

Like for real.

 

Word.

 

Yo.

 

you forgot a point .. simply does not choose to or want to learn. Not everyone has a desire to know how every mechanic in the game works or the "perfect meta " and become an "elite efficiency perfectionist" the person you quoted post makes sense to me.

 

 

 

As for what i get out of it .... pve story rp you know know the actual main reason for the game ...... saying just go play a single player game just proves the flat world mindset i was talking about earlier . Just becase something is online doesn't mean it can't be a single player game .

[_NovaBlast_]

Slightly more serious response.

 

 

 

This is like a guy who has played on this soccer field for a while and has learned, through trial and error, most of its quirks and a lot of useful ways of navigating it and using it to his advantage (where the soccer field analogy just falls apart because it makes no sense...) and is telling people about these quirks and advantageous things because he has noticed that a great many people dont know them.

 

 

 

All of which means diddly squat in the game. Knowing how to grow and harvest rice in terraced farm plots or how to design, build, and maintain a nuclear reactor doesnt do anything at all to help you play soccer.

 

There is a difference between giving advice and expecting people to take the advice. In the context of this thread it it written in a way that i percive states these are errors that Must be fixed.

 

What if i dont want to be a "better"soccer player what if i have fun just kicking the ball around and playing casually ?

Edited October 25, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[Dras_Keto]

Think about what youre saying here.

 

You want to play an Multiplayer online game where the stuff you do can directly impact other people. And you feel like you should have the right to play it in whatever manner you wish, even if the manner in which you play has a negative impact on others. And you seem to feel like no one has the right to be annoyed about this and that we should all respect your right to play the game your way even if your way interferes or inhibits our ability to play the game.

 

Because thats what happens when you have someone doing things incorrectly. It can screw up the game for other people.

 

Youve been harping on how "we" (so called 'elitists') should respect others wishes to play the game "their way" (IE, the bad way). Well, this respect deal is a two way street. If you dont think that you should be forced to play in a certain way (and believe me, NO ONE is trying to force you to play a certain way, we (I?) are simply telling you a better and more effective way to play) then you also cant expect us to be forced to put up with you when its clear you are going out of your way to cause problems because thats what you feel like doing.

 

If all you ever do is solo quest to level cap and then putter around doing dailies to collect skimpy outfits to oogle your companions in, then GO AHEAD and play however you want because it doesnt affect me at all. I dont care. It doesnt matter if you somehow manage to find a way to do less dps than a continuous stream of basic attacks. If thats how you want to play it, if thats how you want to spend you time, HAVE FUN (although, I confess, I cannot understand how that could be even remotely entertaining).

 

But the second you step foot into group content, your actions immediately start to affect others. And you have no room to complain if people decide to kick you out because the way you play negatively impacts their enjoyment of the game.

 

This thread is not for people like you. Although I suppose it could stand as a warning:

 

"If you want people to respect your 'right' to play the game how you want to play it, even if that way isnt very effective or directly hinders the ability of others to enjoy the game, then you have to respect their right to refuse to group with you and to remove you from any group you end up in."

 

Have fun playing your "single player game."

[LyraineAlei]

Just because this is an online RPG, should we be forced to do group activities? No. Not all of us are in a large guild, or have tons of friends who are online, regardless of time.

 

Having the group things as an option opens up the game to people who play different styles. Player A really loves PvP so spends most of his/her time PvPing. But Player B really loves to RP in a small group of friends when doing FPs, but those friends aren't always on at the same time as him/her, so s/he solos the class story content while waiting for his/her friends to get online. Player C despises PvP, and FPs, but enjoys the class story, and interacting with other in Gen Chat.

 

So according to the "MMO, must be group stuff. Solo players go back to regular RPGs!!" crowd, these three example players must be forced into content they do not enjoy because "Herr Durr, MMO."

 

No. Just no. That limits the options of those who might be interested in starting the game. I do not enjoy FPS, but I can zoom outside of my character and play TPS. I don't enjoy PvP, so I don't PvP. I don't have a full Friends List, so I don't do group stuff often as a result.

[Dras_Keto]

Just because this is an online RPG, should we be forced to do group activities? No. Not all of us are in a large guild, or have tons of friends who are online, regardless of time.

 

Having the group things as an option opens up the game to people who play different styles. Player A really loves PvP so spends most of his/her time PvPing. But Player B really loves to RP in a small group of friends when doing FPs, but those friends aren't always on at the same time as him/her, so s/he solos the class story content while waiting for his/her friends to get online. Player C despises PvP, and FPs, but enjoys the class story, and interacting with other in Gen Chat.

 

So according to the "MMO, must be group stuff. Solo players go back to regular RPGs!!" crowd, these three example players must be forced into content they do not enjoy because "Herr Durr, MMO."

 

No. Just no. That limits the options of those who might be interested in starting the game. I do not enjoy FPS, but I can zoom outside of my character and play TPS. I don't enjoy PvP, so I don't PvP. I don't have a full Friends List, so I don't do group stuff often as a result.

 

No one is saying that if you like to play solo, that you should stop playing MMO's. What I AM asking, however, is that if you want to play every single aspect of the game with the mentality of a solo player playing a single player game, WHY are you playing an MMO? It doesnt make any sense to me.

 

Heck, I actively encourage people to solo as many things as they can. And to just try it anyway, even if they think they cant. Why? Because it forces you to play your class at higher levels of skill. If you can go and solo a heroic designed for a group of 4 people your level, then you must be doing something right.

 

What I have a problem with is people who feel that they should be able to go into every aspect of the game doing things "their way" and that everyone should just be forced to put up with them, even if they are a hindrance, because it is their "right" to play the game the way the feel like playing it. They demand that everyone be considerate of them, and accommodating of their "style" but dont extend the same courtesy to others.

 

Well, guess what. We dont have to put up with that. If someone is hindering the group, and they refuse to change, the group has every right to kick them out.

 

If youre going to go into a Multiplayer game with that kind of attitude, then I believe youd have a LOT more fun playing something designed for one person. Because in a single player game, you can do whatever you want and it doesnt matter whether anyone else thinks its a good idea, or not.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Dras_Keto

[LyraineAlei]

No one is saying that if you like to play solo, that you should stop playing MMO's. What I AM asking, however, is that if you want to play every single aspect of the game with the mentality of a solo player playing a single player game, WHY are you playing an MMO? It doesnt make any sense to me.

 

Heck, I actively encourage people to solo any many things as they can. And to just try it anyway, even if they think they cant. Why? Because it forces you to play your class at higher levels of skill. If you can go and solo a heroic designed for a group of 4 people your level, then you must be doing something right.

 

What I have a problem with is people who feel that they should be able to go into every aspect of the game and that everyone should just be forced to put up with them, even if they are a hindrance, because it is their "right" to play the game the way the feel like playing it. They demand that everyone be considerate of them, and accommodating of their "style" but dont extend the same courtesy to others.

 

Well, guess what. We dont have to put up with that. If someone is hindering the group, and they refuse to change, the group has every right to kick them out.

 

If youre going to go into a Multiplayer game with that kind of attitude, then I believe youd have a LOT more fun playing something designed for one person. Because in a single player game, you can do whatever you want, up to the limits of the game, whether other people think its a good idea or not.

 

I personally am more long the lines of Player C in my example. But I know that I don't know my classes well enough for group content, so I sit, solo, and chat in General for the most part. And yes, I am trying to learn.

 

Because I'm the only one in my circle of RL friend who plays SWTOR, so I have no one to chat with about the game.

 

In my examples, I didn't have someome who refuses to learn, in which case, yes, it is that player's fault and you are right to /kick the player. Group content requires working in a group.

 

But forcing people into content they do not enjoy? That is in my opinion, wrong.

 

This is an MMO, but not everyone enjoys grouping up to do things. For those of us who enjoy socializing, but not grouping, are we "playing wrong"? I don't think so. For those who are grouping and not being a team player, them, I consider to be "playing wrong."

 

And most SPRPGs don't have nearly as much freedom as an MMO. They really, really don't. And for the most part have preassigned outfits, and no real choice in a story.

[_NovaBlast_]

Think about what youre saying here.

 

You want to play an Multiplayer online game where the stuff you do can directly impact other people. And you feel like you should have the right to play it in whatever manner you wish, even if the manner in which you play has a negative impact on others. And you seem to feel like no one has the right to be annoyed about this and that we should all respect your right to play the game your way even if your way interferes or inhibits our ability to play the game.

 

Because thats what happens when you have someone doing things incorrectly. It can screw up the game for other people.

 

Youve been harping on how "we" (so called 'elitists') should respect others wishes to play the game "their way" (IE, the bad way). Well, this respect deal is a two way street. If you dont think that you should be forced to play in a certain way (and believe me, NO ONE is trying to force you to play a certain way, we (I?) are simply telling you a better and more effective way to play) then you also cant expect us to be forced to put up with you when its clear you are going out of your way to cause problems because thats what you feel like doing.

 

If all you ever do is solo quest to level cap and then putter around doing dailies to collect skimpy outfits to oogle your companions in, then GO AHEAD and play however you want because it doesnt affect me at all. I dont care. It doesnt matter if you somehow manage to find a way to do less dps than a continuous stream of basic attacks. If thats how you want to play it, if thats how you want to spend you time, HAVE FUN (although, I confess, I cannot understand how that could be even remotely entertaining).

 

But the second you step foot into group content, your actions immediately start to affect others. And you have no room to complain if people decide to kick you out because the way you play negatively impacts their enjoyment of the game.

 

This thread is not for people like you. Although I suppose it could stand as a warning:

 

"If you want people to respect your 'right' to play the game how you want to play it, even if that way isnt very effective or directly hinders the ability of others to enjoy the game, then you have to respect their right to refuse to group with you and to remove you from any group you end up in."

 

Have fun playing your "single player game."

 

sound to me like everything is still putting your version of play above a casual person.

 

What about the way you play affecting a casuals enjoyment of the game ?

 

you also completely contradict yourself "we not forcing you of play a certain way ... Dont DO that this is the way you do it ......

 

Everyone has to be better becase it affect your game play. Well no one forced you to join a random que

 

you could have just grouped with people of like mind.

 

If you can't handle random groups and you feel it affect your enjoyment don't join a random que.

 

You choose to join a random que in so doing it becase neutral ground you can play seriously but you have no right to feel other should do the same as well.

 

i never sen anyone kick form a group i been in yet but it would appear to me if there is more elitis in a group than casual voting would be completely abused.

Edited October 25, 2014 by _NovaBlast_