CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 That's exactly why it's distressing. If you're going to hand draw 8 new characters for art, you can't make at least one female? They're better than this. These aren't characters. These are armour sets. Huge difference. Why are you trying to twist this into an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Would anybody be up in arms if it showed all females? Doubt it. In this case (and these things should be looked at case-by-case) it doesn't matter if it is all male, all female, or a mix. It's really not relevant to the overall message. eh I'm done with you guys, you don't get it and won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ... trolls can be females too! No joke. At first I was thinking "knee-jerk feminist", but I think (read: hope) that you are right lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 eh I'm done with you guys, you don't get it and won't. At least do me the courtesy of replying to this before you take your leave. I'll give you the last word and won't drag you back into this further, but at least reply: When you put a white winter jacket on a hanger, do you call the hanger sexist for hiding the female form? As I stated, gender equality is and will remain to be an issue for a long, long while. I experience its effects not only from stories on the internet, but on a day-to-day basis in the real world. This subject is not purely academic to me. That is why it is absolutely infuriating to me that people would trivialize it by inventing issues under the guise of championing the cause. It's absolutely demeaning to expend energy on non-issues such as this. Edit: Also, recognize the irony in your assumption that I am male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 eh I'm done with you guys, you don't get it and won't. No, please, continue. I really am curious how it's important in this instance. They could easily have not even provided any pictures and the message would still be clear. Is this preferable? Should they avoid imagery altogether so as not to offend anyone? The truth is, if you really want to make an issue, you can find one anywhere. Someone looking for trouble will always find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimvinny Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's better, but it's not where it should be. You'd have to be blind (or a typical guy I guess) to not get that. I'd give you a great article showcasing what I'm talking about but we should keep it on topic - so in that regard this specific case is a problem. Excuse me?!?! So from your point of view, a typical guy is completely oblivious to this issue? Wow. You really have no idea. I'd say more women are oblivious to the problems men face than the other way around. And you're just making it worse for the women who do face problems. Creating issues where none exist detracts from problems that do need solving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelCawdro Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Excuse me?!?! So from your point of view, a typical guy is completely oblivious to this issue? Wow. You really have no idea. I'd say more women are oblivious to the problems men face than the other way around. And you're just making it worse for the women who do face problems. Creating issues where none exist detracts from problems that do need solving. I disagree with the former, but vehemently agree with the latter. But he realizes he messed up and, instead of admitting fault on the internet, decided us "guys" (again, assuming the gender of many of those posting here) aren't worth his time so he can excuse his misguidance by simply belittling those here. Edited October 16, 2014 by CelCawdro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 ... Why aren't there any flat-chested women in this game? IRL, there are flat chested women who have no figure and use paddings to make up for it. Maybe the Trooper and BH showing off the armor sets happen to be one of those flat chested women? Now, less silly-like. When I draw, I am better at the female form. Why? Because I am one. When I look in the mirror after a shower, what do I see? Lady parts. If I were male, I would have a better idea of how a male's proportions are because I would have spend my life catching sight of my male form. Maybe the artist happened to be male this time around and drew himself for the concept art. I draw myself when coming up with ideas and designs, and I'm not even in the graphic arts business. And for the love of all things good and holy, be grateful the females in this game do not have to wear chainmail bikinis. We have uniforms, full armor that covers our body. The chainmail bikinis are completely optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astrobearx Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 These aren't characters. These are armour sets. Huge difference. Why are you trying to twist this into an issue? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ eh I'm done with you guys, you don't get it and won't. i got it, but your gender inequality nerd rage is misplaced here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediJuliusDavin Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Personally, I don't get mad at the artist. Why, because his art is his art, and I practice some artwork too. I am a male and I find drawing a male form notably easier than a good female form. To me, I just find the male form more rigid and easier to detail accurately than the curves of a female. Am I sexist? No! I just find one easier to draw. If I am requested or feel like drawing a female I can, but if left to my preference to draw say, a costume or outfit idea or a character, I'll generally lean towards using a male form as my template. It just feels easier and for an outfit, I can convey the idea more smoothly and faster with a male form. It's different for other people, but these outfits do look kind of rough, like a quick concept drawing. If it is just a rough concept, an artist could choose to use a male form for a quicker, more comfortable reference. Plus from what I remember, a significant part of the base concept art for the game's initial outfits used males. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorlac Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I disagree with the former, but vehemently agree with the latter. But he realizes he messed up and, instead of admitting fault on the internet, decided us "guys" (again, assuming the gender of many of those posting here) aren't worth his time so he can excuse his misguidance by simply belittling those here. Funny thing is, that his/her view doesn't exactly correspond to the "typical female" one either, at least none of my female friends would see any kind of issue with something so trivial. It's like this famous feminist we have in my country. She has without a shred of doubt done some very good and important work in the past when it comes to the struggle for equality, but when you see her in some discussions on TV, she is also a perfect example of taking things way too far. My girlfriend can't listen to her for more than a minute before switching the channel it's so cringeworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I don't think this is an unfair contention. Usually most protagonists are male. It would be nice to see more female bad guys. I would note, however, that the main heroes on the Republic side are two females, one male. So though the Imperial protagonists may be mostly male, that is not the case for the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nocluez Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Dear OP, I did not notice this at first, but you are entirely right. Thank you for pointing it out. I support you, and I hope this post cheers you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's better, but it's not where it should be. You'd have to be blind (or a typical guy I guess) to not get that. I'd give you a great article showcasing what I'm talking about but we should keep it on topic - so in that regard this specific case is a problem. Supports a thread that's making accusations of sexism, calls the people responding "typical guys". That's class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryand Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Oh man I was thinking of posting in this thread, but after reading it I can see that CelCawdro already has it on lockdown. Nice posts. I will try to keep mine short. Hadoken, this thread and your posts in it aren't doing your gender any favors. In fact, I would even say there is maybe a 20% chance that you are really a guy trolling in an attempt to sabotage the "female" side of the argument from the inside. That's how badly you are arguing your cause. There are so many posts in this thread that completely and utterly counter every point you've tried to make, and you don't seem to realize it. Instead you get frustrated and lash out and claim you're "done". You are fulfilling the very stereotypes that you claim to be fighting. Here's what I got out of the concept art images: they aren't very good. They look like someone (who may otherwise be a decent artist) was told to churn out 8 pictures of SWTOR classes in a matter of hours. As a result, they all look pretty much exactly the same. Same size, same posture, only difference being the clothes and what they are holding. The sniper is the only one with a different stance, probably because it is also the only one that required a 2-handed weapon and thus couldn't just copy/paste the arm positioning, along with everything else, so it actually required more effort to make its class apparent. So yes, you could say the fact that they are all male is a problem (which by the way, you can't actually tell that they are all male - some of them could go either way), but the real root of the problem is that they are all the same in pretty much every other way too because clearly very little work was put into them. The root of the issue has nothing to do with gender at all. The artist clearly did whatever he could do with whatever minimal effort he could for whatever pennies they probably paid him. Drawing males instead of females was likely just easier for him. I guess that wasn't very short but w/e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dras_Keto Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Here's what I got out of the concept art images: they aren't very good. They look like someone (who may otherwise be a decent artist) was told to churn out 8 pictures of SWTOR classes in a matter of hours. As a result, they all look pretty much exactly the same. Same size, same posture, only difference being the clothes and what they are holding. The sniper is the only one with a different stance, probably because it is also the only one that required a 2-handed weapon and thus couldn't just copy/paste the arm positioning, along with everything else, so it actually required more effort to make its class apparent. So yes, you could say the fact that they are all male is a problem (which by the way, you can't actually tell that they are all male - some of them could go either way), but the real root of the problem is that they are all the same in pretty much every other way too because clearly very little work was put into them. The root of the issue has nothing to do with gender at all. The artist clearly did whatever he could do with whatever minimal effort he could for whatever pennies they probably paid him. Drawing males instead of females was likely just easier for him. I guess that wasn't very short but w/e. Not to mention that the Knight is holding a double bladed lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Geezus...this is a major problem! I'll contact my state Senators and see if they'd be willing to intervene. I'm also forwarding a link to this thread to CNN, this story deserves better coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machazareel Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Supports a thread that's making accusations of sexism, calls the people responding "typical guys". That's class. Didn't you know? It's only sexism if it negatively affects females. Guys can all go to hell since we've had so many years of male privelige. Seriously, though, this thread is beyond stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pscyon Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) Geezus...this is a major problem! I'll contact my state Senators and see if they'd be willing to intervene. I'm also forwarding a link to this thread to CNN, this story deserves better coverage. Get those whackballs that claimed Mass Effect could be turned into an alien love simulator or whatever. Fox News I think? "Games Industry Giant Oppresses Women"... I'm sure they can come up with a better headline. Edited October 16, 2014 by Pscyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelPiranha Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 How can you tell that the Trooper, BH, or Inquisitor aren't female exactly? The Trooper's physique isn't indicative of a male. The BH and Inquisitor aren't either. I suppose you could say the Mara has a male type physique, but I can see where that's debatable. The premise of this thread is quite absurd really(IMO of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Lies and calumny! Everyone knows us females don't exist online. The womenfolks are just getting sammiches for the menfolks. They'll be back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Lies and calumny! Everyone knows us females don't exist online. The womenfolks are just getting sammiches for the menfolks. They'll be back soon. LIKE THEY SHOULD BE!!! Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Get those whackballs that claimed Mass Effect could be turned into an alien love simulator or whatever. Fox News I think? "Games Industry Giant Oppresses Women"... I'm sure they can come up with a better headline. Yeah lol, I believe it was Fox who thought ME3 was going to turn the entire gaming population gay...good thing I never played that game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricSevGirl Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Dear Ma'am, Please take into account gamer specific statistics not average world wide statistics when relating male/female to SWTOR. It's true, females almost make up 50% of gamers, but that vast majority of females are mostly console gamers. In SWTOR, you're very outnumbered by males. I agree, though, we need more skimpy outfits. Show me the numbers, because I'm a female gamers, MMOs and shooters and I am not a console gamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 LIKE THEY SHOULD BE!!! Right? Minus the sammiches, we usually eat them before we get back. Then the menfolk get mad and say 'Fine we'll just go out for lunch.' and since we already had a sammich, we get a salad and pick at it and then the menfolk complain that we never eat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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