Please Consider Adding a Solo Version of Forged Alliances

[LordArtemis]

Are you sure about that? The fact that I don't like baseball doesn't mean I don't realize what appeal it has for the people who do like it. But...I still don't like it.

 

If you have a fly in your soup, it does not mean all soup comes with flies. I get it.

 

That still doesn't change the likelihood that honey is more effective than vinegar when it comes to attracting said flies. Which was the point being made.

 

Most is not only subjective, it is not a word that represents an entirety. It represents a fraction of an entirety. That much should be self evident IMO.

Edited October 10, 2014 by LordArtemis

[_NovaBlast_]

 

Boo hoo you can't solo content designed for end game progression. Go back to the 97% of the game that you can solo. Raids and FP's are for end game progression and should 100% stay group oriented. You want to do a raid? Join a *********** group for story mode and run the raid. No ones forcing you to do end game progression and since you don't care about end game progression you obviously don't need to gear. Go buy some CM gear and RP on tatooine or something and stop asking for 100% of the game to be solo. Let group players keep some semblance of a REAL mmo alive.

 

 

 

The *********** forged alliance FP's are TACTICALS. You can waltz through them with two people...... Are you really that afraid of other people that you cant even bother to run a TACTICAL FP!? For ****s sake why are you playing an MMO?

 

All this deserves is copy paste response and thats stretching it .....

 

Are you saying that catering to what this game is...an MMO and group heavy content is somehow a bad thing?

 

Well we have opposing views of the definition of mmos I believe a MMO just means multiple people are playing in the same environment at the same time ..it does not means you must group or even be social if you don't choose to be.

 

So yes I believe it is a bad thing. There should be a solo way for someone to do everything within a game . ( again it could be as easy as just let me use my whole crew as my "group" and i'll be happy.

Edited October 10, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[LordArtemis]

Saying EVERYTHING must be solo is going too far, even for me IMO.

 

Story should be solo oriented, with group versions for those so inclined. Group content should exist for those that enjoy that sort of thing, as should competitive play IMO.

 

In a completely solo environment a vibrant healthy market is impossible. SOME elements of the game, in an MMO framework HAVE to be social, or there is no point in paying rent.....because that is what you are doing. Renting the game.

 

Better to pay once and enjoy your game on your own terms (leaving GW and GW2 and other games like it (B2P) out for obvious reasons).

 

There are games you can purchase for a single fee and still have social interaction. Plenty of games in that market. In fact, they are more popular than MMOs.

 

MMOs today offer mostly solo casual content to match the current market, but they still are home to hardcore players in the raiding and PVP communities. Not like in the past, but the market is still there.

[Raansu]

So yes I believe it is a bad thing. There should be a solo way for someone to do everything within a game . ( again it could be as easy as just let me use my whole crew as my "group" and i'll be happy.

 

Then why play an online game at all? The ENTIRE POINT of an online game is to play with others. If you're just going to go off and do your own thing and not group up then there is no point in even playing this genre. There are plenty of single player games to satisfy your needs. Skyrim is perfect for you, go play that.

[freeoftime]

*sigh*

 

BW has opened up a can of worms with this stupid announcement. You should not be able to solo raids EVER. That content is for the group minded players and if people are telling you to spacebar in FP's just ignore them or group up with friends instead of pugs. Oh wait, solo players don't have friends in MMO's, I forgot about that.

 

lmao really

 

Fun fact: The person who convinced me to play this game was then a good friend and has since become my significant other, I nearly rolled my first character on another server than hers because that was where another friend of mine had his (someone who had played since beta, was in a guild that raided and was really rather excited about this decision to make FA solo version and generally dislikes putting story content in group content) and we've since started a guild with some other friends and yet

 

yet I would consider myself a solo player.

 

I don't mind guild chat, usually. I like hanging out and talking, I even like the occasional FP. I've liked doing heroics or even just side quests with my sigoth. but by and large, I prefer to play alone and I *vastly* prefer to do my story stuff alone. (I still need to do a solo foundry run because the one time i played through it was with my sigoth and I want to see the conversations with only my choices, dammit.)

 

But hey, continue to insult and look down on people for not playing the game the way you like it, for not socializing and utilizing the multiplayer aspect the way you like it, for simply not enjoying the game the same way as you do it. Why not.

 

 

Instead, tell them what they are missing. Tell them about the sense of accomplishment, the fun of playing with others as a team, the pride in correct coordination of group actions, the lifelong friendships that result.

 

THAT is what has been lost IMO. THAT is what most solo players do not realize.

 

Eh, I know there are people who enjoy that stuff, but that won't help with all the people that don't. I don't find group play all that fun, nor does it make me feel any sense of accomplishment or pride, usually. Most often, I just end it feeling at least vaguely annoyed and drained, and sometimes even outright anxious, at least when playing with people I don't know too well. (And even when playing with friends, there's only so long I can do it before I want to run off and be on my own again.)

[_NovaBlast_]

Then why play an online game at all? The ENTIRE POINT of an online game is to play with others. If you're just going to go off and do your own thing and not group up then there is no point in even playing this genre. There are plenty of single player games to satisfy your needs. Skyrim is perfect for you, go play that.

 

Thats YOUR entire point not everyone elses Try to think of others for a change instead of just what YOU want. Try reading my post 175 again you proven you a perfect example of who i am refering to. This basically just KOTOR3 to me.

Edited October 10, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[Raansu]

lmao really

 

Fun fact: The person who convinced me to play this game was then a good friend and has since become my significant other, I nearly rolled my first character on another server than hers because that was where another friend of mine had his (someone who had played since beta, was in a guild that raided and was really rather excited about this decision to make FA solo version and generally dislikes putting story content in group content) and we've since started a guild with some other friends and yet

 

yet I would consider myself a solo player.

 

I don't mind guild chat, usually. I like hanging out and talking, I even like the occasional FP. I've liked doing heroics or even just side quests with my sigoth. but by and large, I prefer to play alone and I *vastly* prefer to do my story stuff alone. (I still need to do a solo foundry run because the one time i played through it was with my sigoth and I want to see the conversations with only my choices, dammit.)

 

But hey, continue to insult and look down on people for not playing the game the way you like it, for not socializing and utilizing the multiplayer aspect the way you like it, for simply not enjoying the game the same way as you do it. Why not.

 

 

 

 

Eh, I know there are people who enjoy that stuff, but that won't help with all the people that don't. I don't find group play all that fun, nor does it make me feel any sense of accomplishment or pride, usually. Most often, I just end it feeling at least vaguely annoyed and drained, and sometimes even outright anxious, at least when playing with people I don't know too well. (And even when playing with friends, there's only so long I can do it before I want to run off and be on my own again.)

 

Single player game that way -------->

 

Thats YOUR entire point not everyone elses Try to think of others for a change instead of just what YOU want. Try reading my post 175 again This basically just KOTOR3 to me.

 

Single player game that way -------->

Edited October 10, 2014 by Raansu

[dewayne]

i'm a solo player mostly because im handicapped. so i erlcome the announcement. i have group with others i find annoying more then fun. people want gear they have so they can sell. i enjoy the story so i hate spacebarring that people tel to do it annoys me.

[Fantazm]

Having not played an MMO before this, and not really having any interest in doing so I've learned something about MMO fans over the past few years; they do love throwing teddy out of the pram when people disagree with them.

[_NovaBlast_]

lmao really

 

Fun fact: The person who convinced me to play this game was then a good friend and has since become my significant other, I nearly rolled my first character on another server than hers because that was where another friend of mine had his (someone who had played since beta, was in a guild that raided and was really rather excited about this decision to make FA solo version and generally dislikes putting story content in group content) and we've since started a guild with some other friends and yet

 

yet I would consider myself a solo player.

 

I don't mind guild chat, usually. I like hanging out and talking, I even like the occasional FP. I've liked doing heroics or even just side quests with my sigoth. but by and large, I prefer to play alone and I *vastly* prefer to do my story stuff alone. (I still need to do a solo foundry run because the one time i played through it was with my sigoth and I want to see the conversations with only my choices, dammit.)

 

But hey, continue to insult and look down on people for not playing the game the way you like it, for not socializing and utilizing the multiplayer aspect the way you like it, for simply not enjoying the game the same way as you do it. Why not.

 

 

 

 

Eh, I know there are people who enjoy that stuff, but that won't help with all the people that don't. I don't find group play all that fun, nor does it make me feel any sense of accomplishment or pride, usually. Most often, I just end it feeling at least vaguely annoyed and drained, and sometimes even outright anxious, at least when playing with people I don't know too well. (And even when playing with friends, there's only so long I can do it before I want to run off and be on my own again.)

 

 

Good post. Raansu is the perfect example of the type of player wrote about in post 175 . Really the kind of player that makes communities look bad not really worth the time for either of us to respond to anymore.

Edited October 10, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[Clarian]

If you have a fly in your soup, it does not mean all soup comes with flies. I get it.

No, that wasn't my point at all.

That still doesn't change the likelihood that honey is more effective than vinegar when it comes to attracting said flies. Which was the point being made.

Not in the part that I quoted. In that part, the claim was that most solo players don't realize why group play appeals to the people who like it. That doesn't seem likely to me, just based on my general experience. In most cases, I think I understand why people like things that I don't. I mean, there's some stuff that's way out there, but...in most cases.

[freeoftime]

Single player game that way -------->

 

 

 

Single player game that way -------->

 

No KoTOR 3 though 8C

 

.......Besides which, I see you ignored my entire point about how there are other ways to utilize the social aspect of a multiplayer game than ~forced grouping~.

 

"B-b-b-but you should be social in an MMO! but only in the way I approve, because any other way of being social than my precious precious grouping for quests (whether *you* want to or not) isn't the *right* kind of being social so just go and play that singleplayer game that still lacks all the ways of being social and utilizing the multiplayer aspect of the game in a way you do like because who cares it's all about what I like! Me me memememememe ME"

 

Sounds like an accurate summary of your points, really.

 

You lose

 

literally

 

nothing

 

by accomodating a larger player base and solo players/players who utilize the mupltiplayer aspect in way that doesn't include grouping (for story missions) among them.

 

Absolutely nothing.

 

"But dev time! Resources!" Funny enough, these players pay too! When they leave that's less money for the devs! Less money made by the game, less money to be used to develop more content, among it your precious group content.

 

("But people won't group any more!" a) that doesn't say anything good about grouping at all -- so a significant enough amount of players only do it because they have to, not because it's fun? hmm.... b) you assume people who wouldn't group any more then do it now. that's a pretty big assumption and I wager a wrong one in a lot of cases)

 

"But wehhhh this is an MMO" yeah it is, and i've just listed numerous ways of being social that don't include grouping for (story) quests. Nor is your definition of an MMO (GROUPING!!!111!!1!) the only one.

[LordArtemis]

No, that wasn't my point at all.

 

Not in the part that I quoted. In that part, the claim was that most solo players don't realize why group play appeals to the people who like it. That doesn't seem likely to me, just based on my general experience. In most cases, I think I understand why people like things that I don't. I mean, there's some stuff that's way out there, but...in most cases.

 

Fair enough. I cant really judge your own personal experiences, or try to discount them somehow by comparing them to my own. My experience has obviously been different. Most folks I have spoken to in the casual community (of which I am a member) rarely understand the draw to group play in the past. Sometimes I refer them to videos to show them what it used to be like, before raiding became a job.

 

Which is what I think contributed to what I call the great death of raiding.

[wainot-keel]

Single player game that way -------->

 

 

 

Single player game that way -------->

 

Well... good luck with that ?

You should know people will play whatever they feel like playing in whichever way it pleases them the most.

That's how it is. And how it should be.

[Clarian]

SOME elements of the game, in an MMO framework HAVE to be social, or there is no point in paying rent......

I strongly disagree - but I think this gets to the real heart of the issue.

 

I'm a solo player, and it's been completely worth it to pay the rent these last two years or so. The reason is simple: The huge scale of this game - including 8(!) different stories - is one of the main things I love about it. And a game of this scale would never have been created without the prospect of subscription revenue. If I want a game of this scale - and I do - that's the price to pay. And I'm willing to pay it.

 

The old idea that MMO=subscription seems pretty much dead by now. What isn't dead yet is the idea that solo=non-subscription.

 

But, as a solo player, I like getting invested in my characters over long periods of time...having new content updates...new dungeons, new powers, new gear, new monsters...all of which fits nicely into an ongoing subscription model. And none of which necessarily involves multiplayer.

 

If we lived in an alternate universe where subscription models were considered a normal thing for single-player games as well as multiplayer, would Bioware have even made an MMO? Maybe not.

 

In a completely solo environment a vibrant healthy market is impossible.

There are some social elements I'd be more than happy to keep. Especially an auction house - probably not to buy and sell in-game drops like Diablo did, but cash shop items (including the contents from opened packs, as today) and maybe crafted stuff.

[Max_Killjoy]

1) The stress of being in a Flashpoint kills all the enjoyment

2) You can't stop and continue another day

3) You do not have companion along

4) You have to fight for responses (and you don't even get a decent social standing for completing an FP).

5) At worst, a person who won the roll can direct your actions the way you do not want it to go at all

6) You never know what other people want, and normally they rush through, and you just tag along behind, so you do not really do the content.

 

All very true.

 

#5 is the worst part of grouped story content -- I hate my character's story being directed by some random stranger's choices and a diceroll. I made the mistake of doing a random stranger a favor and doing the end of The Thing Czerka Found with them -- and because he chose to not destroy the trapped Rakata, that's how my character's storyline is fixed in stone.

[Raansu]

Good post. Raansu is the perfect example of the type of player wrote about in post 175 . Really the kind of player that makes communities look bad not really worth the time for either of us to respond to anymore.

 

And you're a perfect example of why MMO's are becoming terrible and full of anti-social solo heros who don't understand the meaning of online games. "Hey guys I'm going to play this game online but do EVERYTHING solo and be all by my lonesome!"

 

Pure stupidity. You know what was the good days? FFXI where you required 6 people just to level up. That game had a real community.

[LordArtemis]

I strongly disagree - but I think this gets to the real heart of the issue.

 

I'm a solo player, and it's been completely worth it to pay the rent these last two years or so. The reason is simple: The huge scale of this game - including 8(!) different stories - is one of the main things I love about it. And a game of this scale would never have been created without the prospect of subscription revenue. If I want a game of this scale - and I do - that's the price to pay. And I'm willing to pay it.

 

The old idea that MMO=subscription seems pretty much dead by now. What isn't dead yet is the idea that solo=non-subscription.

 

But, as a solo player, I like getting invested in my characters over long periods of time...having new content updates...new dungeons, new powers, new gear, new monsters...all of which fits nicely into an ongoing subscription model. And none of which necessarily involves multiplayer.

 

If we lived in an alternate universe where subscription models were considered a normal thing for single-player games as well as multiplayer, would Bioware have even made an MMO? Maybe not.

 

 

There are some social elements I'd be more than happy to keep. Especially an auction house - probably not to buy and sell in-game drops like Diablo did, but cash shop items (including the contents from opened packs, as today) and maybe crafted stuff.

 

Fair enough. I think that most folks would argue, however, that many would likely stick to single player games if they are not interested in social interaction, because MMOs offer little else and require rent.

 

That does not mean there are not exceptions, naturally. But I think it is a pretty safe contention to say that it is likely a common view.

[LordArtemis]

And you're a perfect example of why MMO's are becoming terrible and full of anti-social solo heros who don't understand the meaning of online games. "Hey guys I'm going to play this game online but do EVERYTHING solo and be all by my lonesome!"

 

Pure stupidity. You know what was the good days? FFXI where you required 6 people just to level up. That game had a real community.

 

Some might argue it is foolish to cling to the past Raansu.

 

I bet some folks here remember open world PVP everywhere, permadeath and player looting. Now THAT was the good old days IMO. That is when an MMORPG was really an RPG....Just like the D&D we played as a kid.

 

IMO no game since has been a true MMO, and all MMOs since those days hold your hand to some degree.

 

I want games like UO and Ghouls N Ghosts again. But I also realize it is pretty silly to live in the past.

 

I love the DayZ mod based on its brutality. It is a rough and unforgiving game to play, and I love it.

Edited October 10, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Max_Killjoy]

And you're a perfect example of why MMO's are becoming terrible and full of anti-social solo heros who don't understand the meaning of online games. "Hey guys I'm going to play this game online but do EVERYTHING solo and be all by my lonesome!"

 

Pure stupidity. You know what was the good days? FFXI where you required 6 people just to level up. That game had a real community.

 

No, that game had something forced and artificial.

 

Or do you consider community by definition to be something people only do when they're forced to combine their efforts just to survive?

Edited October 10, 2014 by Max_Killjoy

[Clarian]

I think that most folks would argue, however, that many would likely stick to single player games if they are not interested in social interaction, because MMOs offer little else and require rent.

I'd like to stick to single player games myself. But, not all single player games are created equal. To me, this game offers a better single player experience - more of what I want - than any strictly single player game out there.

 

And every MMO I've ever played - especially this one - offers much more than just social interaction...otherwise I wouldn't have played them.

 

Could a subscription model be viable for a single player game? Ten years ago, I would have said, definitely no. But these days, when I and many other solo players have become accustomed to subscribing to MMOs - at least, the ones that have a lot to offer beyond social interaction - maybe...

[LordArtemis]

I'd like to stick to single player games myself. But, not all single player games are created equal. To me, this game offers a better single player experience - more of what I want - than any strictly single player game out there.

 

And every MMO I've ever played - especially this one - offers much more than just social interaction...otherwise I wouldn't have played them.

 

Could a subscription model be viable for a single player game? Ten years ago, I would have said, definitely no. But these days, when I and many other solo players have become accustomed to subscribing to MMOs - at least, the ones that have a lot to offer beyond social interaction - maybe...

 

Yes, some people equate unlocks for RMT or DLCs as similar mechanisms to subs. Some games even develop with DLCs in mind.

[BeeblesTV]

Funny you should mention that, we are actually going to do that very thing! It is really important as we head into Shadow of Revan that players have seen the Forged Alliances storyline. Although we will certainly never force you through it, we want to make it so that if you haven't played through it, you have an opportunity to see the whole storyline, even by yourself if you choose!

 

-eric

 

Holy hell, they are focusing on story! The world must be ending.

[Darth_Wicked]

Holy hell, they are focusing on story! The world must be ending.

 

The fact they are making the flashpoints that are part of Forged Alliances soloable, doesn't mean they're focusing on story.

 

In fact, ever since launch, it has been the other way around.

 

You used to have secondary war scenarios, namely the ones that were brought to you by Darth Malgus and Master Satele. Each planet from Vanilla TOR had its own story, in addition to the class stories.

 

PvP and the like also had some story added here and there, like the recovery of the legendary Voidstar.

 

Right now, we have this:

 

For the most part, yes, what you will play is one singular storyline which is being told from two different sides, as player-characters of both factions have the same goals in the storyline (as in Forged Alliances). Additionally, each player class will be given one unique Class Story Mission as part of the storyline; these are entirely different from one another.

 

In other words, EVERY SINGLE BIT of upcoming story pertains Revan and his cult of lunatics. Aside that, you have something going on on Kuat and Huttball. That's it.

 

There is no war between Republic and Empire, no minor or major skirmishes here and there.

 

THERE'S NOTHING.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[DomiSotto]

I feel that LordArtemis did not get a recognition he deserves for doing something very nice! His approach is certainly more successful in making Group Content sound more appealing than the “You are too stoooopid to sub for this game.”

 

If you look in the PvP forum, the first thing you see is 2 stickied posts. One of which explains in a friendly manner how to start a new character in the PvP, and take him/her from level 10 to level 55, and the second – how to start a L55 character new to PvP on PvP.

 

When I go to the Flashpoints, Operations and Heroics Forum, there is no post that explains anything at all. Off top of my head the following would be useful:

 

1. Explanation of each of the Group Style Activities: Raid, Ops, Heroic, Flashpoint.

2. Abbreviations for all the names of the Ops, Flashpoints etc

3. Explanation of Modes, and which ones are available through the GF and on which level.

4. Expectations of a Player Skill: keybinding, stance, AC, skill tree, etc. Maybe add a few demo Videos of a good group acting together against a boss so people have a benchmark to judge their own performance

5. General ‘do’ and ‘don’t’. Don’t stay in the circles, don’t pull before the tank, peel off the healer…

6. Gearing requirements and handling your gear through the levelling and in the End Game, particularly the tricky points like keeping your comms close to 100 on approaching L50 to get Makeb mods;

7. End Game Demystification with highlighting the milestones in the game when you should be doing each piece of Group Content for the first time… so, you, like, don’t miss the bolstered, GF’d Ops trial runs.