Today I tried Wildstar

[Edzew]

Edzew.... are you honestly genuinely claiming that Wildstar doesn't reuse assets? seriously? all video games reuse assets. they have to because otherwise, they would simply be unaffordable. ALL of them do it. even that exploration game that is supposed create new worlds every time you start it up (forgot the name of it) . the important part is how much thought was put into existing assets in a first place. how much detail.

 

and incidentally, YES I can go to a lot of those places I see from up high - the whole premise of datacron hunting hinges on exploring places that are out of the way a lot of times. I cannot go to all of them, but a lot of them - I can. and I'm fairly sure that unless wildstar has flying mounts or something of that nature - there are places you cannot go to there - either.

 

no that is not what im claiming BUT in wildstar and other games if i go to a city i wont see the same exact insides of a building more than once unlike in tor! same layout with the same exact mob placement. same thing with caves, the only things that change are what types of mobs are moving around. im not saying other games reuse things but i am saying TOR reuses them way too much, so much so its very noticeable.

 

and you are saying you can get to everything you see while flying on the blimp on tat?? kuz that is a bold face lie! you are blocked by invisible walls that kill you if you don't turn back, or just flat out stop you from going any further. but in other games like WOW, Wildstar, Archeage, Landmark, Lineage II you could get to darn near anyplace you could see, some places took some jumping skills but you could get to them.

[thewitchdoctor]

You might want to face reality here. Saying Wildstar is doing better than SWTOR when the facts do not support it is not being honest with yourself.

 

Honesty isn't on the radar for this discussion.

[Sangrar]

This is how well Wildstar is doing. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/632/feature/8993/WildStar-Carbine-Cancels-Christmas.html

 

So they had to cancel their holiday events to boot, yeah that stings

[Sangrar]

Honesty isn't on the radar for this discussion.

 

Honesty is the best policy!

[thewitchdoctor]

Honesty is the best policy!

 

Normally, I'd agree. But a few posters may not.

 

Wildstar had some potential. I'd like to see a bit of a 'hardcore' return to the genre ... but I think Carbine went way overboard. Then throw in the other issues ... oh well. I wish the game luck. Just like in any consumer category, competition is good. If Wildstar pulls up, then you can count on Bioware and the rest paying attention. Just as if Carbine is smart, they are looking at what Bioware did.

[Jeweledleah]

no that is not what im claiming BUT in wildstar and other games if i go to a city i wont see the same exact insides of a building more than once unlike in tor! same layout with the same exact mob placement. same thing with caves, the only things that change are what types of mobs are moving around. im not saying other games reuse things but i am saying TOR reuses them way too much, so much so its very noticeable.

 

and you are saying you can get to everything you see while flying on the blimp on tat?? kuz that is a bold face lie! you are blocked by invisible walls that kill you if you don't turn back, or just flat out stop you from going any further. but in other games like WOW, Wildstar, Archeage, Landmark, Lineage II you could get to darn near anyplace you could see, some places took some jumping skills but you could get to them.

 

my, what mighty rose tinted glasses you are wearing.

 

exhaustion zones and invisible barriers were not invented by BIoware, you know. and yes you can see same cities and same npc's in same patterns in other games, and yes they are very common there too. but you are so determined to criticize and hate TOR that its almost comical. all flaws are exaggerated in your eyes, while flaws in games that haven't "disappointed your expectations" that were baselessly built up anyways - feel minor to you. the very. same. flaws. /shrug.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Edzew]

my, what mighty rose tinted glasses you are wearing.

 

exhaustion zones and invisible barriers were not invented by BIoware, you know. and yes you can see same cities and same npc's in same patterns in other games, and yes they are very common there too. but you are so determined to criticize and hate TOR that its almost comical. all flaws are exaggerated in your eyes, while flaws in games that haven't "disappointed your expectations" that were baselessly built up anyways - feel minor to you. the very. same. flaws. /shrug.

 

i think you are the one that is exaggerating. again im not saying that TOR is the only one with these BUT they are more common in tor. you can see the same building reused multiple times in the same city in tor and if you go to another planet guess what you will see that same room again and again... same with the caves, they reuse the same cave over and over in this game. o and these aren't just any random building or cave o no they are ones that you are sent to for a quest. and the only reason i brought up exhaustion zones is because of what you said.

[Arkerus]

i think you are the one that is exaggerating. again im not saying that TOR is the only one with these BUT they are more common in tor. you can see the same building reused multiple times in the same city in tor and if you go to another planet guess what you will see that same room again and again... same with the caves, they reuse the same cave over and over in this game. o and these aren't just any random building or cave o no they are ones that you are sent to for a quest. and the only reason i brought up exhaustion zones is because of what you said.

 

I can do that with any game, ever. You are not making the point you think you are.,

[Edzew]

I can do that with any game, ever. .,

 

i highly doubt that! but if that's what you want to believe then more power to ya!

[Jrr_hypernova]

Well not mmos as tor is the only one I played here's a list of games with as much asset reuse as tor

Oblivion

Fallout 1-new vegas

Final fantasy 1-13 unless you think the enemy being a different color makes the unique

Dagger fall

Mario

Old school Zelda games

Pokemon

Mass effect 1

Dragon age

Metal gear solid peace maker

Blaulders gate

 

 

Keep in mind this is just games I've played so I'm sure there's a lot more

[Elly_Dawn]

lol, that's great Jrr_hypernova, my brother and i were discussing that very fact earlier... how every game ever reuses assets, like for example those red, blue, green Goblins in like almost every high fantasy RPG... it's funny how people wanna complain about reused assets when pallet swaps were the norm for like ever, really nothing new and nothing that will ever change... if no assets were reused file sizes would be Massive for one game, it's an unrealistic expectation for a game company to not reuse assets... Edited October 6, 2014 by Elly_Dawn

[Callaron]

lol, that's great Jrr_hypernova, my brother and i were discussing that very fact earlier... how every game ever reuses assets, like for example those red, blue, green Goblins in like almost every high fantasy RPG... it's funny how people wanna complain about reused assets when pallet swaps were the norm for like ever, really nothing new and nothing that will ever change... if no assets were reused file sizes would be Massive for one game, it's an unrealistic expectation for a game company to not reuse assets...

 

Most don't complain about it. It's the ones desperately grasping to slander a particular game that make an attempt for it.

I'd be curious to see how many of SWG's assets were reused ones. I'm going to guess it was quite a few of them.

[bsbrad]

Leveled 2 toons to cap on Wildstar. Fun game, good humor.

 

Inacessible PVE endgame. Broken PVP endgame.

 

Ditto.....this is what broke WS for me. The leveling was good, the story ok, housing great and the mechanics were done a lot better than FW2.

 

The biggest problem was the endgame, the PVE endgame just was inaccessible to all but the largest guilds and the PVP endgame had so many balance issues it was not fun to play after the nine hundred millionth time running totem masks.

[Edzew]

Well not mmos as tor is the only one I played here's a list of games with as much asset reuse as tor

Oblivion

Fallout 1-new vegas

Final fantasy 1-13 unless you think the enemy being a different color makes the unique

Dagger fall

Mario

Old school Zelda games

Pokemon

Mass effect 1

Dragon age

Metal gear solid peace maker

Blaulders gate

 

 

Keep in mind this is just games I've played so I'm sure there's a lot more

 

well seeing as most of those are regular RPG type of games and they are made for consoles i wouldn't really think they count for the discussion about reused assets in MMORPGs and again im not saying that TOR is the ONLY one that dose it, i am just saying its much more obvious in TOR and they seam to reuse things more in this game than in other MMORPGs. im also not talking about NPCs and critters, i was talking about inside of buildings having the exact same layout with the exact same NPC routs, same thing with a lot of the caves.

[Vember]

Wildstar is practically dead, and quite frankly, it doesn't bother me at all. I can't stand LAS games, and i don't want to see them become the norm....I play these games on the PC, not Xbox. And honestly, I'm not a big fan of this 'action combat' crap - throwing telegraphs at you with unavoidable white damage just seems lame as hell to me. Edited October 7, 2014 by Vember

[Miyi]

I am usually one for pretty colorful things but WildStar pushed it for me.

[Edzew]

Wildstar is practically dead, and quite frankly, it doesn't bother me at all. I can't stand LAS games, and i don't want to see them become the norm....I play these games on the PC, not Xbox. And honestly, I'm not a big fan of this 'action combat' crap - throwing telegraphs at you with unavoidable white damage just seems lame as hell to me.

 

ok im curious... what is "LAS games"? i haven't heard of that before... or at least i don't think i have

[WSRB]

ok im curious... what is "LAS games"? i haven't heard of that before... or at least i don't think i have

 

LAS = Limited Action Set

 

Essentially the more twitch based MMOs like Wildstar and DCUO don't allow access to all of a class' abilities at one time, instead making players choose a certain number of powers to place on a single action bar. Having to choose the right abilities before important fights is meant to be part of the strategic process in the game.

Edited October 8, 2014 by WSRB

[bassfu]

I can run SWTOR at 40+ fps at 1600x900 with a mix of medium and high settings. Wildstar was getting 15 at the most in 1024x786 with everything turned low or off. Something is ****ed up with your game if BW's hero engine runs better.

 

Also Stephen Frost was a giant tool.

[Callaron]

I can run SWTOR at 40+ fps at 1600x900 with a mix of medium and high settings. Wildstar was getting 15 at the most in 1024x786 with everything turned low or off. Something is ****ed up with your game if BW's hero engine runs better.

 

Also Stephen Frost was a giant tool.

 

Well, he's officially leaving Wildstar if it makes you feel any better.

[Edzew]

LAS = Limited Action Set

 

Essentially the more twitch based MMOs like Wildstar and DCUO don't allow access to all of a class' abilities at one time, instead making players choose a certain number of powers to place on a single action bar. Having to choose the right abilities before important fights is meant to be part of the strategic process in the game.

 

twitch based MMOs?? wildstar isn't twitch.. ESO is twitch. Twitch is more like FPS games.

 

but i see what you mean, how wildstar made you chose 4 or 5 abilities and that's what you used. but at the same time i find i do the same thing in other MMOs much like this one, each class tends to have 3 or 4 good abilities and the rest tend to be not all that good

 

 

I can run SWTOR at 40+ fps at 1600x900 with a mix of medium and high settings. Wildstar was getting 15 at the most in 1024x786 with everything turned low or off. Something is ****ed up with your game if BW's hero engine runs better.

 

Also Stephen Frost was a giant tool.

 

ok that's really odd because i had no problem running wildstar at max settings, and yet i still get lag at times from this game

[Vember]

but i see what you mean, how wildstar made you chose 4 or 5 abilities and that's what you used. but at the same time i find i do the same thing in other MMOs much like this one, each class tends to have 3 or 4 good abilities and the rest tend to be not all that good

 

In any given fight on my Assassin in SWTOR, I use between 12 and 19 different abilities, pretty much the same on my Marauder. Being saddled with one action bar and 5-8 abilities sucks (Wildstar, ESO), and leads to generic, boring gameplay in my opinion.

[AshlaBoga]

I am usually one for pretty colorful things but WildStar pushed it for me.

 

Yeah, the Aurin actually managed to cancel out a lot of my enjoyment (I wish that there was an Aurin torture room or something so I could vent my dislike of them).

[Technohic]

In any given fight on my Assassin in SWTOR, I use between 12 and 19 different abilities, pretty much the same on my Marauder. Being saddled with one action bar and 5-8 abilities sucks (Wildstar, ESO), and leads to generic, boring gameplay in my opinion.

 

I was going to say; on my sin, forget 3 or 4 abilities. I'm watching for 3 or 4 procs.

 

That said; I agree mostly but I kind of liked the combat in ESO, or at least what it tried to do. Less abilitiy spamming and more watching and reacting to target movement and your own movement while manually having to block, aim and attack. My problem is, for leaving it up to you, they really made it very unresponsive and made it to where the aspect of you having to actively block was outdone by just holding block and still being able to fire off your instants. That also gets into their animation cancelling to where you still do the damage even if the actions animation was cancelled. Basically they took out whatever skill that should have been in there and replaced it with skill on using the flaws in the mechanics.

[WSRB]

twitch based MMOs?? wildstar isn't twitch.. ESO is twitch. Twitch is more like FPS games.

 

but i see what you mean, how wildstar made you chose 4 or 5 abilities and that's what you used. but at the same time i find i do the same thing in other MMOs much like this one, each class tends to have 3 or 4 good abilities and the rest tend to be not all that good

 

Compared to traditional tab targeting MMOs like SWTOR, WoW, etc. Wildstar is twitch oriented combat: it has manual targeting and attack dodging, as opposed to stat based chance to hit/dodge/etc which originated in tabletop RPGs; it removes much of the defensive and offensive feats accomplished by the character out of the hands of the RNG and puts them back into the hands of the player. Unfortunately, they took all that saved RNG and slapped it into the loot and crafting systems.

 

 

 

As for the long term health of Wildstar... I really enjoyed the game at it's core and I'd love to have it available to alternate with SWTOR (a few months in one, switch before getting bored, and repeat), but I just get the feeling that there's too many problems there to solve in a live environment.

 

Many of the players are pinning their hopes on megaservers and Drop 3 to "save the game", but dungeon and PvP queues are already cross server (and take quite some time to pop) and there are huge problems that won't be solved in that update, which is really just a bunch of bug fixes and a new daily area plus solo dungeon. Yes there will some players who return to check out the new stuff, but raid attunement will still be tedious (only slightly less so), loot will still be ridiculously RNG based, soloists and non-raiders (ie. the majority of all MMO players) will still have no real progression at the endgame, world PvP will continue to be virtually non-existent... the list goes on.

 

Many who return to check out Drop 3 will just turn around and leave again, probably with zero possibility of giving the game a third chance. Drop 3 won't go live until early to mid November, which means that Drop 4 (which "should" fix the other problems that Drop 3 won't address) won't come until February at the earliest. This is a lot of time going by for a game that's in trouble.

 

Going free to play? That will only make problems worse if they do it before Drop 4; but if they wait that long, how many people will be left, and how much bad press will there have been that will simply keep people from trying it out, even free?

 

I really love the game, and want to be wrong, but I think that it's Tabula Rasa all over again.