Today I tried Wildstar

[Callaron]

I really love the game, and want to be wrong, but I think that it's Tabula Rasa all over again.

 

They actually had a nice interview with mmorpg.com. And they didn't dodge the hard questions.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/632/feature/9004/WildStar-Donatelli-Moore-Respond-to-Concerns.html

 

It seems like they're willing to make some changes to make the game more accessible, and to adress some of the other issues that plague it.

Though I have to agree that if they don't manage to turn things around they'll soon follow in the footsteps of TR.

[Technohic]

They actually had a nice interview with mmorpg.com. And they didn't dodge the hard questions.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/632/feature/9004/WildStar-Donatelli-Moore-Respond-to-Concerns.html

 

It seems like they're willing to make some changes to make the game more accessible, and to adress some of the other issues that plague it.

Though I have to agree that if they don't manage to turn things around they'll soon follow in the footsteps of TR.

 

 

Well; I am not sure if those were hard questions. Coincidentally; I just read this article and they kind of seem to have loaded questions.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/10/09/the-nexus-telegraph-extra-wildstars-deafening-silence/

[fire-breath]

i agree wildstar has some cartoonish art in places and with its toons but i also have to say its graphics and its worlds look way better than TORs.

 

Wait? ... What?

Have you ever tried alt tabbing between wildstar and tor? Please do and be in awe of how good TOR graphics are. During my 7 days key a friend of mine needed help with some heroics on makeb and I decided to quickly boot up TOR without exiting WS. When I alt tabbed back the difference was very much noticeable.

 

Maybe its a personal thing but wildstar looks much more pale and cubic than TOR.

[Callaron]

Wait? ... What?

Have you ever tried alt tabbing between wildstar and tor? Please do and be in awe of how good TOR graphics are. During my 7 days key a friend of mine needed help with some heroics on makeb and I decided to quickly boot up TOR without exiting WS. When I alt tabbed back the difference was very much noticeable.

 

Maybe its a personal thing but wildstar looks much more pale and cubic than TOR.

 

You're pretty much arguing with the new Mr Jurgens. He'll probably say pong and pacman had better graphics than SWTOR if it means a chance to put down the game he blames for SWG's death.

[Callaron]

Well; I am not sure if those were hard questions. Coincidentally; I just read this article and they kind of seem to have loaded questions.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/10/09/the-nexus-telegraph-extra-wildstars-deafening-silence/

 

Well, let me rephrase it to "They were about as honest as an MMO developer is ever going to get" (With the exception of TSW's Joel Bylos. Hats off to that man when it comes to being honest with the fans).

 

That article you linked is definitely less optimistic. And it's pretty easy to guess that they are not sitting on two million happy people considering everyone's pretty much confirmed that all but one servers are ghost towns these days.

 

I also suspect the sudden "We're not only targetting the hardcore audience!" turnaround they're now going for is one of the reasons Frost's leaving. He was probably one of the original devs that pushed for the hardcore, or he someone who cautioned them against doing it and was ignored with disastrous results. Probably something we'll never know the truth of.

[WSRB]

I've read both the Massively and MMORPG.com articles and neither one is exactly great.

 

MMORPG.com mostly tossed out a bunch of softballs; when they didn't, Donatelli and Moore gave them waffling, non-specific answers that received no follow up. This was probably a series of written questions submitted to Carbine, so they had control of the answers and no possibility of follow up (look at that answer to the F2P question: have you ever seen something that made so little sense?).

 

Massively undoubtedly had some pretty loaded questions, and is clearly behaving like a lot of the former and current players in essentially saying "the time for non-specific answers is over: there are fewer of us everyday and if you want to keep any of us, then start giving some definitive answers with some definite timetables." It's definitely a more combative stance to be sure, but this is what the players want to know.

[Edzew]

You're pretty much arguing with the new Mr Jurgens. He'll probably say pong and pacman had better graphics than SWTOR if it means a chance to put down the game he blames for SWG's death.

 

where did i ever say tor killed SWG??? tor did not kill SWG the NGE killed SWG ive said that many many times.

[Callaron]

where did i ever say tor killed SWG??? tor did not kill SWG the NGE killed SWG ive said that many many times.

 

Oops, I looked back and it was actually Darth_Furian that was going on about it in that SWG thread from a few weeks ago.

Sorry! Wrong SWG fan!

[Cordarn]

May I point out that your getting opinions on wildstar from a different game's forums? If you go to the wildstar forums and posted the thread: "I tried swtor, couldn't handle it." you'd get the same negative feedback from them about swtor.

 

I for one love wildstar (if your curious as to why im here its because my sister is playing and I enjoy the class stories. That and im to lazy to farm endgame."

[Callaron]

May I point out that your getting opinions on wildstar from a different game's forums? If you go to the wildstar forums and posted the thread: "I tried swtor, couldn't handle it." you'd get the same negative feedback from them about swtor.

 

I for one love wildstar (if your curious as to why im here its because my sister is playing and I enjoy the class stories. That and im to lazy to farm endgame."

 

That's true to some degree. MMORPG.COM and Massively however are "neutral" sources, with no games linked to them, and they are also currently questioning Wildstar's future.

[Cordarn]

Wait? ... What?

Have you ever tried alt tabbing between wildstar and tor? Please do and be in awe of how good TOR graphics are. During my 7 days key a friend of mine needed help with some heroics on makeb and I decided to quickly boot up TOR without exiting WS. When I alt tabbed back the difference was very much noticeable.

 

Maybe its a personal thing but wildstar looks much more pale and cubic than TOR.

 

That is probably because Wildstar is ment to cater to the people with a sense of humor and looking for a good time with friends in a fun game with great combat and story and the sort. SWTOR is more for roleplayers. (Not saying swtor isn't for people looking for a good time either.) Frankly, im not sure why people are up in arms about the graphics. They never bothered me. Plus if people will tolerate wow graphics they will most definitely tolerate wildstar graphics.

[theUndead]

That is probably because Wildstar is ment to cater to the people with a sense of humor and looking for a good time with friends in a fun game with great combat and story and the sort. SWTOR is more for roleplayers. (Not saying swtor isn't for people looking for a good time either.) Frankly, im not sure why people are up in arms about the graphics. They never bothered me. Plus if people will tolerate wow graphics they will most definitely tolerate wildstar graphics.

 

So you're saying Tor isn't for raiders and pvpers as well? Or that Tor isn't a fun game with some sense of humor too? I for one didn't find Wildstar fun in the slightest.

[Zoom_VI]

That is probably because Wildstar is ment to cater to the people with a sense of humor and looking for a good time with friends in a fun game with great combat and story and the sort.

 

the problem is that visually wildstar went for the casual/fun look, but at the same time they delivered one of the most hardcore games on the market currently, which is probably what is killing them.

[Lotharofxev]

casual/fun look,

but at the same time they delivered one of the most

hardcore games

 

Very well done pointing out the dichotomy.

[jorill]

I really enjoyed the combat system and limited action set but for me that was really the only thing i really liked about it. I felt the grind to lvl cap was extremely painful as ive gotten so used to voiced quests and swtor does a good job of masking the grindness for leveling.

 

I think the main problem is going hardcore. I know they got a lot of forum love for that but its really hard to get the subs you need to sustain the game. Kind of related to that is going with 40 main raids which wasnt even hugely popular when WoW did it and thought it was a huge mistake when they announced it.

 

Having sub only probably didnt help either. If you dont launch a perfect game nowadays with that model people are probably going to leave in numbers. The hybrid fps/sub model seems to be the most succesful nowadays.

[SithKoriandr]

the problem is that visually wildstar went for the casual/fun look, but at the same time they delivered one of the most hardcore games on the market currently, which is probably what is killing them.

 

Pretty much. I quite enjoyed WS. Then I hit the end game. It's very much a MMO where you need a big group to go farther.

 

Finding a big group that wants that sort of end game and RPs? Never easy. My small group wasn't interested in the more difficult end game either.

[WSRB]

I really enjoyed the combat system and limited action set but for me that was really the only thing i really liked about it. I felt the grind to lvl cap was extremely painful as ive gotten so used to voiced quests and swtor does a good job of masking the grindness for leveling.

 

I think the main problem is going hardcore. I know they got a lot of forum love for that but its really hard to get the subs you need to sustain the game. Kind of related to that is going with 40 main raids which wasnt even hugely popular when WoW did it and thought it was a huge mistake when they announced it.

 

Having sub only probably didnt help either. If you dont launch a perfect game nowadays with that model people are probably going to leave in numbers. The hybrid fps/sub model seems to be the most succesful nowadays.

 

Couldn't agree more with this.

 

The worst part is that this time last year they were talking about building their endgame differently from everyone, specifically not having all the PVE progression funnel into players into raiding (in interviews like: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/wildstar/1227411p1.html and http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=33270 ). Honestly, that's what attracted me to Wildstar.

 

Even now, for all their talk of wanting to add more "five minute content", "make the game more casual friendly" and "get the message out that it's not hardcore: it's play your way" they're still creating the same old endgame that we've seen for ten years: push all PVE progression into raiding, despite all data showing that the majority of players don't do large group content. You can get that in any MMO out there these days, but probably with a lot less tedious grinding and RNG.

 

Additionally the lack of megaservers at launch and the insistence on the sub only model that no one can make work these days shows a development house that is completely out sync with what the modern audience expects out of an MMO.

[SithKoriandr]

Couldn't agree more with this.

 

The worst part is that this time last year they were talking about building their endgame differently from everyone, specifically not having all the PVE progression funnel into players into raiding (in interviews like: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/wildstar/1227411p1.html and http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=33270 ). Honestly, that's what attracted me to Wildstar.

 

Even now, for all their talk of wanting to add more "five minute content", "make the game more casual friendly" and "get the message out that it's not hardcore: it's play your way" they're still creating the same old endgame that we've seen for ten years: push all PVE progression into raiding, despite all data showing that the majority of players don't do large group content. You can get that in any MMO out there these days, but probably with a lot less tedious grinding and RNG.

 

Additionally the lack of megaservers at launch and the insistence on the sub only model that no one can make work these days shows a development house that is completely out sync with what the modern audience expects out of an MMO.

 

Pffft...people can make a sub work. If they refuse to give up 3 coffees in a month that's their problem It's less "make it work" as 50cents a day is very cheap (and FFXIV makes it's sub work as does WoW)

 

The problem was the end content. "Look here! Awesome outfits! Locked behind hardcore content! Such hardcore content only 1-10 people will achieve it, out of 2 million players!

 

No one wants that. Well...except for those 1-10 people.

[aeterno]

That is probably because Wildstar is ment to cater to the people with a sense of humor and looking for a good time with friends in a fun game with great combat and story and the sort. SWTOR is more for roleplayers. (Not saying swtor isn't for people looking for a good time either.) Frankly, im not sure why people are up in arms about the graphics. They never bothered me. Plus if people will tolerate wow graphics they will most definitely tolerate wildstar graphics.

 

I liked WoW graphics but Wildstar put me off in 1 beta weekend.

 

I think it's a a combination of everything. WoW pulls of taking its lore more lightheartedly in places because it does it in places and in intelligent ways, even if the first few human zones are a CSI/Rambo spoof zones. Carbine on the other hand managed to give the impression they phoned their own IP in over the weekend and insepicably still managed to mess up the other aspects they did focus on on top of that. I havent RPed for a second in my life but still, as mmo virtual worlds go, if I spend my time in one I'll probably elect one that's not a perpetual episode of robot chicken. Those come in 10min doses for a good reason.

 

For one thing I am grateful to WS they really made life of future devs easier by giving them a perfect stick to brake the vocal minorities back on the "mmo players dont care about nothing but good mechanics" yadda yadda yadda.

Edited October 18, 2014 by aeterno

[ozrique]

Why is SWTOR so much superior to all other games?

 

Because other games don't have the right clonkiness. No game is clonkier than this one. It's something about the movement of the character that makes it clonk just right.

[CarpeSangrea]

Wildstar does some things right, but it does a lot of things very wrong.

 

Leveling my first toon was fun, once I found a class I really liked. It certainly took longer than I was expecting.

 

When I started leveling a second toon, I realized that I had to do all that over again. Leveling alts feels like such a tedious chore it's ridiculous.

 

Then there's the endgame. PVP is a trainwreck, and if you aren't into the raiding scene there's virtually nothing for you to do once you hit max level.

 

The ridiculous levels of RNG tied to EVERYTHING. I mean everything...from random loot, to challenge prizes, to which items you get from boxes, to crafting, to itemization, to...you get the picture? It's like someone said "yo dawg....i heard you liked RNG so I gave you some RNG to RNG with while you smack around some RNG"

 

Crafting is painful. I really enjoy the housing concept in that game, and at first had a lot of fun with it. I figured I'd do architect, as that is the profession that makes all the housing crap. The crafting dialogue is riddled with--you guessed it---MORE RNG!! Trying to make what you want is like throwing darts while blindfolded. And of course, a lot of the coolest stuff is bind on pickup, which means you can't trade it, sell it, or give it to your alts. So if you want those really awesome housing items, you have to level architect multiple times...yeah...screw that crap.

 

At this point, the only thing I can say that I really like about WS is the character models and the costume/dye system. Even that is uneven in how it functions.

 

After beta, I wanted so hard to like that game and have it be the second coming, but after playing through the live game, I just don't see it lasting long term unless there are some major changes. I'm not just talking about bug fixes either...I'm referring to actual game mechanics changes. Adding one new zone with a handful of missions/dailies just isn't going to cut it.

[Markosmartong]

I was a big Wildstar fan through beta however, after launch my interest quickly dissipated. I really thought I was going to leave SWTOR. Nope...not for WoW, not for ESO not for Wildstar. I've been back and I'm not really looking to go anywhere else other than an occasional single player game.

[Projawa]

Wildstar's problem was that they spent AAA time and money to develop and promote a game designed for a AA/niche audience. And even now that niche audience has largely abandoned the game. They bet their chips on making a game that celebrated out of date gameplay and business design choices instead of trying to build something more forward looking. Edited October 21, 2014 by Projawa

[WSRB]

Pffft...people can make a sub work. If they refuse to give up 3 coffees in a month that's their problem It's less "make it work" as 50cents a day is very cheap (and FFXIV makes it's sub work as does WoW)

 

There are a lot of people out there who refuse to pay a subscription for a video game based on principle: they have no problem tossing out hundreds a month in microtransactions but just flat out refuse to ever pay for a subscription. Clearly, I'm not one of them, so don't bother trying to convince me how good subs are or how "wrong" they are, because it ain't my principles: I'm just saying that there's a lot of players out there who aren't paying subs for reasons that have nothing to do with cost.

 

 

 

Wildstar's problem was that they spent AAA time and money to develop and promote a game designed for a AA/niche audience. And even now that niche audience has largely abandoned the game. They bet their chips on making a game that celebrated out of date gameplay and business design choices instead of trying to build something more forward looking.

 

This is the most astute observation about Wildstar's troubles that I've seen.

[Lotharofxev]

Wildstar's problem was that they spent AAA time and money to develop and promote a game designed for a AA/niche audience. And even now that niche audience has largely abandoned the game. They bet their chips on making a game that celebrated out of date gameplay and business design choices instead of trying to build something more forward looking.

 

Win. So.Much.Win.