Interesting patch notes regarding pvp

[theskullwalker]

Hello all!

Was just reviewing patch notes, gonna quote the ones for pvp here:

Warzone Conquest Objectives have been redesigned:

• “Ranked Warzones: The Proving Grounds” now requires playing 10 matches. Its point value has increased to 3,000 and it is no longer repeatable.
  
• “Unranked Warzones: The Killing Fields” now requires playing 10 matches. Its point value has increased to 3,000 and it is no longer repeatable.
  
• “Unranked Warzones: The Front Lines” now awards 250 points for any single unranked warzone match and is repeatable.
  
• “Warzones: Total Domination” now awards 500 points for any single warzone match victory and is repeatable.
  
• “Warzones: Destroy the Enemy” now awards 2,000 points (up from 1,000).
  

 

Source

Any thoughts? I think that gaining conquest target will be ridiculously easy to gain on all my alts. I mean, if <Warzones: Destroy the enemy> is repeatable and lets say I get average 10 killing blows a warzone then that will be 20k points a warzone (Without the bonus )!!!

[OMGitsCHARLIE]

As much as I would like it to be per Killing Blow, I'm skeptical that it would be awarded as such. It might be a once per WZ thing. Edited September 8, 2014 by OMGitsCHARLIE

[theskullwalker]

As much as I would like it to be per Killing Blow, I'm skeptical that it would be awarded as such. It might be a once per WZ thing.

 

Well, I would not be suprised if it'd be tied to the medal but lets remain positive

 

Edit:

 

Quote from Duly:

 

Deliver the killing blow against enemies in any warzone.

So yeah, hopefully. Edited September 8, 2014 by theskullwalker

[Ramtar]

adds nothing to the game. PvP is still in a controlled setting of the endless same warzones with a max of a 8 person team, nothing for OWPvP. Edited September 8, 2014 by Ramtar

[Tellenn]

Just what we need more sages going dps when they ought to be healing.

[JMagee]

My guess is the KB achievement will be repeatable, but it will be somewhere ~75-100KBs per completion.

 

2k per KB is just insanity.

[Nemarus]

You all realize that all five of these objectives are not always going to be available, right?

 

The only one of those which is guaranteed to be in every Conquest event is The Killing Fields... the one you can finish ONCE, on ONE ALT. If you're lucky, you can do it while invading a planet for a x2 bonus. If not, you get 3000 points. The rest of your Conquest will have to come from other activities.

[WhistDarkblade]

You all realize that all five of these objectives are not always going to be available, right?

 

The only one of those which is guaranteed to be in every Conquest event is The Killing Fields... the one you can finish ONCE, on ONE ALT. If you're lucky, you can do it while invading a planet for a x2 bonus. If not, you get 3000 points. The rest of your Conquest will have to come from other activities.

 

Exactly. BW totally nerfed all the repeatables and really killed the whole PvP aspect of the Death Mark conquest event. You can get more Conquest Points now by doing the PvE objectives.

 

As usual the game devs totally screw over the PvPers cause all the carebears whine like little girls.

[Capt_Beers]

Being able to finish your conquest points in one WZ would be stupid even for BW. I highly doubt they will be repeatable.

[TUXs]

Being able to finish your conquest points in one WZ would be stupid even for BW. I highly doubt they will be repeatable.

KB is per LEGACY and requires 100...

 

Given this...I think this change to PvP is horrible. It nerfs PvP conquest points too much and removes the incentive to PvP for points.

Edited September 9, 2014 by TUXs

[JediMasterSLC]

kb is per legacy and requires 100...

 

Given this...i think this change to pvp is horrible. It nerfs pvp conquest points too much and removes the incentive to pvp for points.

 

*** bw **** you

[Zoom_VI]

*** bw **** you

 

To be fair, it would be ridiculous if it was any other way. Although every 100 killing blows repeatable would be nice.

 

At least the new format incentivizes winning instead of /stucking ranked matches.

[JediMasterSLC]

To be fair, it would be ridiculous if it was any other way. Although every 100 killing blows repeatable would be nice.

 

At least the new format incentivizes winning instead of /stucking ranked matches.

 

It was supposed to be ridiculous. Plus they changed the repeatable ranked win obj to a 10 wins non repeatable. They basically nerfed it by 10x.

Edited September 9, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[PloGreen]

Just what we need more sages going dps when they ought to be healing.

 

To hell with healing.

[TUXs]

To be fair, it would be ridiculous if it was any other way. Although every 100 killing blows repeatable would be nice.

 

At least the new format incentivizes winning instead of /stucking ranked matches.

 

It's not the KB's I give a **** about, it's nerfing the points for losses and capping wins at 10. PvP NEEDED to be competitive with the other PvE crap. It isn't. PvP depends on other players, none of the PvE bosses do. PvE bosses are up 24/7...PvP isn't....there's no queue to run Heroics.

 

PvP NEEDED to award enough points that it made people consider doing it. 250 isn't enough (for a loss). For 250, you'll have players quit the second there appears to be a challenge.

[JediMasterSLC]

It's not the KB's I give a **** about, it's nerfing the points for losses and capping wins at 10. PvP NEEDED to be competitive with the other PvE crap. It isn't. PvP depends on other players, none of the PvE bosses do. PvE bosses are up 24/7...PvP isn't....there's no queue to run Heroics.

 

PvP NEEDED to award enough points that it made people consider doing it. 250 isn't enough (for a loss). For 250, you'll have players quit the second there appears to be a challenge.

 

I think lowering points from a loss and increasing from a win is good. They don't need to incentivize pvers to pvp. They just need to make pvp a superior points farming method if you're good at it and win a lot. Make PvP better than PvE if you win 75%+ of your games.

Edited September 9, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[TUXs]

I think lowering points from a loss and increasing from a win is good. They don't need to incentivize pvers to pvp. They just need to make pvp a superior points farming method if you're good at it and win a lot. Make PvP better than PvE if you win 75%+ of your games.

We disagree on this. Rewarding wins is fine, but to simply halve the points for a WZ is just asking for players to quit them. We've been down this road too many times and we should all know what will happen.

 

A better solution would have been to have points tied to medals, since medals are the best indication of participation that we have. 50 points per medal+ 250 for a win, no cap on medals.

[PloGreen]

We disagree on this. Rewarding wins is fine, but to simply halve the points for a WZ is just asking for players to quit them. We've been down this road too many times and we should all know what will happen.

 

A better solution would have been to have points tied to medals, since medals are the best indication of participation that we have. 50 points per medal+ 250 for a win, no cap on medals.

 

Doesn't that just encourage medal farming though?

[StormTerminus]

A better solution would have been to have points tied to medals, since medals are the best indication of participation that we have. 50 points per medal+ 250 for a win, no cap on medals.

I agree with you regarding medals. I feel the conquest team is not the same as the pvp team and they aren't communicating well. The killing blow thing looks like a new guys method of encouraging participation in PvP rather than tying into the medals. The medals reward protection, healing, defense, objectives and killing. They are much more comprehensive and I would have preferred it to KB which was nerfed pre launch anyway.

 

Yes medal farming exists but it is done by pvp aware guilds and premades not by newbies. It is still the best programmatic measure of participation and teamwork available in swtor.

[PloGreen]

I agree with you regarding medals. I feel the conquest team is not the same as the pvp team and they aren't communicating well. The killing blow thing looks like a new guys method of encouraging participation in PvP rather than tying into the medals. The medals reward protection, healing, defense, objectives and killing. They are much more comprehensive and I would have preferred it to KB which was nerfed pre launch anyway.

 

Yes medal farming exists but it is done by pvp aware guilds and premades not by newbies. It is still the best programmatic measure of participation and teamwork available in swtor.

 

I guess thats true.

[TUXs]

Doesn't that just encourage medal farming though?

 

What do you mean? You think all 4-8 players will just sit on a node for defensive medals? Rewarding only KB's only discourages healing...that's better to you? Medals are rewarded for all sorts of crap...I never even try for any of them and always end up with a plethora.

[waterboytkd]

So, something to keep in mind. A win in Unranked is NOT 500 points. It's 750. It's the 250 for completing an unranked WZ, and 500 for winning a ranked or unranked WZ.

 

That said, getting Conquest through PvP is going to be nightmarish.

 

The 2000 points for killing blows, and the 3000 points for 10 unranked or 10 ranked, aren't repeatable. So you get them on one character per legacy. That means on your main, you can snag 8000 points from those (but remember, Ranked WZ losses get you 0 conquest points, so getting those 10 ranked finishes is going to cost you points over doing unranked). So for your first character, that's 27,000 points remaining.

 

For that character, you can get both ranked and unranked weeklies done for another 2000 points. That leaves that last 25,000 from just grinding Regs. At 250 or 750 a pop. Even if you win EVERY match, that's going to be 34 matches. Each loss basically adds 2 to that number (3 losses = 1 win).

 

Then there's alts. 35,000 points. Get 2000 if you do both weeklies, but that's a bad idea. Why? Because to get the Ranked weekly done fastest requires 5 wins. A win nets you 500 points in Ranked, but 750 points in Unranked. That means that those five wins in Ranked cost you 1250 points. Which the 1000 points for finishing the weekly don't make up for. So 1000 points from the weekly leaves 34,000 points at 750 a pop for wins. That's going to take 46 wins (or 45 wins and 1 loss).

 

I think getting this done on one toon is doable. Alts, not so much. Unless you took the week off. At least with the crafting Conquest, I could queue stuff up and walk away. Got the conquest on 4 toons. This week, I'll be lucky to get one.

 

EDIT: obviously, Conquest bonuses help here. I'm at 57%. It's still going to be tough to get the bonus on one toon.

Edited September 9, 2014 by waterboytkd

[phalczen]

KB is per LEGACY and requires 100...

 

Given this...I think this change to PvP is horrible. It nerfs PvP conquest points too much and removes the incentive to PvP for points.

 

I'd be wiling to bet it was in direct response to the people that complained when the flashpoint repeatability was urgently nerfed in the conquest before last week, the same complainers who cited pvp repeatability as justification for fp repeatability. You may agree or disagree with the philosophy behind the change, but I believe this to be the reason.

 

EDIT: to take this even further, I'm sure they are seeing the point totals racked up by some guilds and thinking that they have to slow things down somehow. This may not be the way to do it, but there it is.

Edited September 9, 2014 by phalczen

[JMagee]

So, something to keep in mind. A win in Unranked is NOT 500 points. It's 750. It's the 250 for completing an unranked WZ, and 500 for winning a ranked or unranked WZ.

 

That said, getting Conquest through PvP is going to be nightmarish.

 

The 2000 points for killing blows, and the 3000 points for 10 unranked or 10 ranked, aren't repeatable. So you get them on one character per legacy. That means on your main, you can snag 8000 points from those (but remember, Ranked WZ losses get you 0 conquest points, so getting those 10 ranked finishes is going to cost you points over doing unranked). So for your first character, that's 27,000 points remaining.

 

For that character, you can get both ranked and unranked weeklies done for another 2000 points. That leaves that last 25,000 from just grinding Regs. At 250 or 750 a pop. Even if you win EVERY match, that's going to be 34 matches. Each loss basically adds 2 to that number (3 losses = 1 win).

 

Then there's alts. 35,000 points. Get 2000 if you do both weeklies, but that's a bad idea. Why? Because to get the Ranked weekly done fastest requires 5 wins. A win nets you 500 points in Ranked, but 750 points in Unranked. That means that those five wins in Ranked cost you 1250 points. Which the 1000 points for finishing the weekly don't make up for. So 1000 points from the weekly leaves 34,000 points at 750 a pop for wins. That's going to take 46 wins (or 45 wins and 1 loss).

 

I think getting this done on one toon is doable. Alts, not so much. Unless you took the week off. At least with the crafting Conquest, I could queue stuff up and walk away. Got the conquest on 4 toons. This week, I'll be lucky to get one.

 

While your numbers are true, I find them somewhat misleading.

 

The absolute reward point totals are accurate, but the modifiers for being engaged in conquest make them much more attainable.

 

Invading any planet basically doubles all point values so the weeklies immediately become worth 4k. Having invested time/money in housing could make those two weeklies worth even more (I'm not entirely sure how the bonus is calculated, but it would net somewhere between 6000-8000 with full housing.

 

If you're trying to grind completely solo without working the bonus system to your advantage, it's going to be difficult to get to your personal goal. But it's laughably easy if you have all the bonuses working for you.

Edited September 9, 2014 by JMagee

[TUXs]

I'd be wiling to bet it was in direct response to the people that complained when the flashpoint repeatability was urgently nerfed in the conquest before last week, the same complainers who cited pvp repeatability as justification for fp repeatability. You may agree or disagree with the philosophy behind the change, but I believe this to be the reason.

 

EDIT: to take this even further, I'm sure they are seeing the point totals racked up by some guilds and thinking that they have to slow things down somehow. This may not be the way to do it, but there it is.

 

Of course it was. Bioware didn't think **** through, those FPs took me 18 minutes to get 6,000 Conquest points, and somehow, people convinced Bioware that 500 from PvP was somehow equitable to that 6000. Never mind the fact that PvP queues can last 18 minutes, or that a Voidstar alone can take that long. Forget that in order for ME to PvP, I need YOU to also queue up. I could SOLO those FPs 24/7 and never encounter another player...yet PvP, which is 100% dependent on other players, rewarded too much at 1/6th the freaking points. ONLY in Bioware's world can 500 be too much vs. 3000 (x2 that week).

 

Bioware should have left the PvE missions as repeatable, but nerfed the points from 3000 to 500. That would have put them exactly in-line with PvP. PvP should be 250 for playing and 25 per medal, + 250 more for a win.