Darkness Tanking Compendium

[Cirro]

Hello all,

 

First great post thanks for everyone's hard work. I read through the post or should say skimmed through it and will continue to read as time permits. My question is should you complete your Darkness tree first or jump back and forth between Darkness and Madness? It might have been said somewhere in the post I just might have missed it. Thanks

[Makk]

Hi - I've always played straight up DPS builds on past games, but considering doing a tank here for some flavor (on SWTOR end game, are tanks something groups always are looking for?). Leveling up (mostly doing the class/side quests and a bit of soloing), do you recommend leveling up as one of these builds, or leveling up more of a DPS build and then switching over?

 

Is the leveling up really that much slower (as some have indicated in some of the threads I've read) if I take a tanking route, or is the difference really negligible?

 

Thanks

[Faytte]

Hi - I've always played straight up DPS builds on past games, but considering doing a tank here for some flavor (on SWTOR end game, are tanks something groups always are looking for?). Leveling up (mostly doing the class/side quests and a bit of soloing), do you recommend leveling up as one of these builds, or leveling up more of a DPS build and then switching over?

 

Is the leveling up really that much slower (as some have indicated in some of the threads I've read) if I take a tanking route, or is the difference really negligible?

 

Thanks

 

5% less damage for all the bonus survivability means less downtime..

[tausra]

Hi - I've always played straight up DPS builds on past games, but considering doing a tank here for some flavor (on SWTOR end game, are tanks something groups always are looking for?). Leveling up (mostly doing the class/side quests and a bit of soloing), do you recommend leveling up as one of these builds, or leveling up more of a DPS build and then switching over?

 

Is the leveling up really that much slower (as some have indicated in some of the threads I've read) if I take a tanking route, or is the difference really negligible?

 

Thanks

 

DPS progresses in spurts and jumps, tanks keep trudging along. After a 2-3 mob pull on Dromund Kaas my Deception Assassin needed a full duration Seethe. I switched to Darkness and did the same 2-3 mob and still needed to rest, but for less time. DPS runs sprints, tanks run marathons.

 

Tanks and healers are always needed, because everyone wants to be the cool guy who kills things fast.

[punman]

I'd be interested if anyone had a rough guesstimate of def/shield/absorb needed to start tanking heroics. We've got the usual assortment of level 50's which UNFORTUNATELY always seems to include only one tank to start out, while the rest are leveling. I have been picking up some tank gear on the side. I'm wondering if I should even give it a shot with half-dps gear and half-tank gear or if I'll get roflstomped in hard mode.

 

Edit: sorry if it wasn't obvious, but this experiment would include a respec into Darkness

Edited January 4, 2012 by punman

[Celesian]

You will get stomped in a HM flashpoint without full tank gear. You should be in the area of 250+ defense rating and around 5900-6K armor with dark surge up. I started tanking with mostly Champion PVP tank gear. You will probably want around 16K health at the bare minimum. To be completely honest your dps is what needs to be geared. As long as they can burn the bosses down before enrage it's not to bad. But you will basically tank the entire FP with nothing but taunt cause threat doesn't exist right now on an assassin.

[punman]

That's what I was afraid of. Alright, back to the auction house ...

[Celesian]

I finished sort of tanking EV last night as i mostly got the job of attempting to dps in tank spec and gear. On trash I was able to attempt to tank some stuff and I will tell you threat did not exist period.

 

I was able to Taunt something keep it on me for 6 seconds before it went right back to the Jugg tank or a DPS somewhere. I would then AOE taunt for another 6 seconds and same thing would happen. This was using a 31/0/10 build I was spamming Wither and Discharge every CD to try and keep any sort of AOE threat and it did no good.

 

Even on a single target mob I would use shock + wither as much as possible which are the only 2 skills with agro built in, and I couldn't hold agro at all. Either the jugg would pull off with his AOE or a dps would pull off with there's. It's got to be because when a Jugg get's hit he gets rage so basically they have unlimited resources which to spamm there abilities. Assassin's basically ride on very very low force the entire time. Force just doesn't work for tanking at all, so threat will need to be buff considerably in order for us to be viable tank's.

[gkshow]

I finished sort of tanking EV last night as i mostly got the job of attempting to dps in tank spec and gear. On trash I was able to attempt to tank some stuff and I will tell you threat did not exist period.

 

I was able to Taunt something keep it on me for 6 seconds before it went right back to the Jugg tank or a DPS somewhere. I would then AOE taunt for another 6 seconds and same thing would happen. This was using a 31/0/10 build I was spamming Wither and Discharge every CD to try and keep any sort of AOE threat and it did no good.

 

Even on a single target mob I would use shock + wither as much as possible which are the only 2 skills with agro built in, and I couldn't hold agro at all. Either the jugg would pull off with his AOE or a dps would pull off with there's. It's got to be because when a Jugg get's hit he gets rage so basically they have unlimited resources which to spamm there abilities. Assassin's basically ride on very very low force the entire time. Force just doesn't work for tanking at all, so threat will need to be buff considerably in order for us to be viable tank's.

 

^^ I have the same problem when I tanked (I'm only level 22 atm, so I've tanked 2-3 FPs only) but the threat issue was huge for me. I'd lose aggro all the time.

 

But with Jugs and BHs tanking as well, I don't see anytime soon BW buffing Assasin's threat issue...

[Arakinis]

I'm 46, so I haven't done many heroic FP's, but I have tanked a bunch of regular FP's along with almost every heroic quest. I have honestly had no problems holding aggro in any situation, especially since getting wither a few levels ago.

 

This is my typical starting rotation:

 

Note: I have 2 points in Dark Embrace to help force regen right off the bat

 

Dark Ward-

Force cloak in-

Pull any ranged outliers to you with Force Pull-

 

Rotation-

 

-Wither

-Discharge

-Lacerate

-Lacerate

-Wither

-Lacerate

-Discharge

-Taunt as needed

I'll usually also toss an energized shock in to up my melee crit for Lacerate

 

Also make sure to tell ur DPS to wait a few seconds to let you get initial aggro. And don't forget to use the target markers to indicate what the group should focus fire first.

[gkshow]

Arakinis, which spec are you using?

 

31/0/10 or the hybrid spec?

 

My main issue for aggro might've been because of me being low level, not sure.

 

I only tanked 2 FPs and some heroic missions really, that's all.

 

I'm planning to switch to the Darkness/Madness hybrid around 36.

[theonepanda]

At 23ish you barely have energize, which helps keep aggro but...

 

You don't have Blood of Sith...which is such a huge force regen boost. Its no wonder you can't hold aggro terribly well.

 

I've never had anyone pull off me unless I wanted them to...

 

While leveling, I tanked every single flashpoint with a powertech tank as well...we worked in that he gets the adds, I get the boss. I never lost aggro, except during huge dry spells in energize procs (which do happen, sadly), but you can just taunt back during those.

 

Don't try to aoe tank unless you absolutely have to. It is horrible. Lacerate is godawful, and wither/discharge are barely any better.

 

Do not wither on cd; it is not actually as much threat as energize or possibly even as much as thrash (that crits). Use it before the debuff wears off, obviously. It is a survival tool, and an aoe threat tool, not a dps or threat ability on single target.

 

With regards to heroic tanking, yes, you want tank gear. Your healer also needs to be very geared, and your dps as well.

 

Heroic bosses main difficulty is the enrage timer...every little bit of dps helps, which is why you need to really understand how assassin tanking works, and eek out every little bit of dps you can (force pooling, staggering/delaying shocks for exploitive strikes, etc.).

 

Also for those thinking 31/0/10 is better for ops/heroics...I agree with you. Esp with the random nature of Raze, i don't actually think darkness/madness has any place in a flashpoint anymore. I still think it is better for leveling, but once max level, I believe pure darkness is the only way to go.

 

I will be writing up a rotation for pure darkness once I finish my deception dps simulator; i may port that to darkness as well. We'll see!

[Makk]

I'm a total newb when it comes to tanking.. so pardon the dumb questions.

 

Regarding gear, what is it that I should be looking for to have as I level up? what about for end game?

 

Thanks

[theonepanda]

Typically when you're leveling up, you'll only see one type of mod/enhancement that will be useful for you.

 

They will have either absorb, shield, or defense on them. Pick that one (assuming you're buying from commendation vendors).

 

Other than that, its up to you whether you want force wielder (more end than wil) or resolve (more wil than end) armorings/hilts. I personally went with resolve hilts/armorings...you won't notice the health while leveling, and killing things faster is nice.

 

It goes without saying that orange gear (for head chest pants gloves shoes) is the easiest to use and you should go for it asap...the easiest full oranges to get are the formal set (for guys, social 1) and slave girl (for girls, social 2) or imperial dancer (for girls, security vendor).

 

When you hit 50, you have far more choice. Typically, a mod/enhancement will have 2 of the 3 defensive stats on it...try to hit the breakpoints that I mentioned in the first post, given your total defensive rating. It will give you the maximum amount of mitigation.

 

Any gear with crit/surge/alacrity is a dps piece...typically you want to steeer clear of them, though surge is good for us if you cannot find anything else.

[Arakinis]

Arakinis, which spec are you using?

 

31/0/10 or the hybrid spec?

 

My main issue for aggro might've been because of me being low level, not sure.

 

I only tanked 2 FPs and some heroic missions really, that's all.

 

I'm planning to switch to the Darkness/Madness hybrid around 36.

 

 

It's pretty much 31/2/8 with points taken out of chain shock or torment. Note that the spec I use is mostly a leveling spec that is good for the prolonged confrontations, but gives a very nice force boost at the start to rail off some serious aoe

[MadMossy]

31/0/10 here myself have no trouble at all keeping aggro on a single target/boss but multiples are a total pain specially as our movement is limited and range is <=10m with most of our abilities, atleast on my BH tank I knew if I was tanking a boss and some adds came I could just pan the camera and pop of an aoe missile thingy to get their attention.

 

Biggest annoyance for me though is closing down gaps, darth malgus is a prime example when he does his knock back takes forever to run back, BH/Jugg just leap right back in instantly, obviously im not a total noob, back to wall sorts that out for us

[punman]

With regards to heroic tanking, yes, you want tank gear. Your healer also needs to be very geared, and your dps as well.

 

Heroic bosses main difficulty is the enrage timer...every little bit of dps helps, which is why you need to really understand how assassin tanking works, and eek out every little bit of dps you can (force pooling, staggering/delaying shocks for exploitive strikes, etc.).

 

Yeah, we were fine last night with our only 50 tank (a Jugg in quest gear basically) until the end of Boarding Party, and he just got his face smashed once we got the Cmdr down. He couldn't withstand burst dmg, and we all knew it was his gear, including him. We're gonna try again tonight.

 

That having been said ... you can farm Black Talon as much as you want in crappy gear, apparently.

 

DPS was never a problem, I'm full custom gear with a couple pieces of Champion (31% crit, 89% surge, 95% accuracy) and sadly I was just constantly pulling off him even with Guard on me. Force Cloak early, and often.

 

I'd be looking more forward to tanking if I didn't have to build a tank set basically from scratch, since I didn't build it as I was leveling up. I guess I could get the basic armor/mod from the GTN, make the enhancements, and I can make a tanky lightsaber too, just need a few of the Biometric crystals.

[gkshow]

So, can I say that because of talents like Energize, Blood of Sith, Electrify and EotS, for the 25/0/16 hybrid built, it's better to fill the 25 pts in Darkness first, then go Madness?

 

edit: for 23/2/16 built...I was looking at putting 2 points into DE.

 

Do you use stealth often as a MT?

Edited January 4, 2012 by gkshow

[Makk]

Typically when you're leveling up, you'll only see one type of mod/enhancement that will be useful for you.

 

They will have either absorb, shield, or defense on them. Pick that one (assuming you're buying from commendation vendors).

 

Other than that, its up to you whether you want force wielder (more end than wil) or resolve (more wil than end) armorings/hilts. I personally went with resolve hilts/armorings...you won't notice the health while leveling, and killing things faster is nice.

 

It goes without saying that orange gear (for head chest pants gloves shoes) is the easiest to use and you should go for it asap...the easiest full oranges to get are the formal set (for guys, social 1) and slave girl (for girls, social 2) or imperial dancer (for girls, security vendor).

 

When you hit 50, you have far more choice. Typically, a mod/enhancement will have 2 of the 3 defensive stats on it...try to hit the breakpoints that I mentioned in the first post, given your total defensive rating. It will give you the maximum amount of mitigation.

 

Any gear with crit/surge/alacrity is a dps piece...typically you want to steeer clear of them, though surge is good for us if you cannot find anything else.

 

Thanks. For gear (for leveling up) - I am working on the Saber Marshal set (so far have the chest and legs, and bought the head off the AH and can use that when I hit lvl 27). To make sure I understand, what you are recommending is I get the formal set for everything else until I can find better alternatives - and then for all the stuff if I find mod/enhacements with the tanky stuff (absorb, shield, or defense) throw that into as many pieces that have slot as I can (assuming also on the lightsaber?), and then for the others do the endurance/willpower thing. Then the other items (implants, ear, etc) use the same thought? (tanky stuff if available, and otherwise endurance/wisdom) and for offhand shield and not force focus?

 

Thanks

 

(dumb question - people say when leveling solo 'fights are longer than with a dps build'... and given I do have less DPS that makes snese.. but is the difference really all that significant? for trash mobs we are probably talking a few seconds and for bosses probably a little more?)

[MisterLaz]

Does the second shock that is applied from Madness's Chain Shock ability add to the Harnessed Darkness talent's stacks?

[punman]

This pretty much goes for any class/spec leveling up, but what I did, when I got a new mod of whatever type, either from quest or cleaning out commendations before going to the next planet, is that I'd check my gear to see what the LOWEST mod rating was, and then upgrade that one. Do I have more comms left over? Get the next lowest, etc ... That way you keep your gear relatively up to date across the board.

 

To maximize your mod level most efficiently, also only wear a new piece of gear if 2 out of 3 mod slots are better than what you're currently wearing. In that case, you'll take the one that's better in your current gear and move it over. Otherwise, just take the one that's better from the new piece and put it in the current gear.

 

Obviously if all the leftover pieces are crap, and wouldn't be upgrades in any other gear, you can just "overwrite" the mod, but hang onto the good ones. This is more level 50 advice, though, as you'll out-level pretty rapidly the other stuff, so no need to save them.

 

It's also only worth it to BUY a new piece of gear if every mod is better than what it's replacing. Otherwise, buy the individual mods, it's cheaper, and does the same thing.

 

I still have the original of every piece of orange quest reward gear I got because I just kept upgrading them, so there were very few times a new quest reward was better across the board, so I didn't take them.

 

Once you start getting lvl 50 set gear (pvp or columi or tionese, etc) you'll want to start wearing those instead, because they've got the armor stats "baked in" to force you to actually wear fugly clown suit gear. Otherwise, no one would ever wear them. Seriously.

 

Anyway, that went on a tangent. Keep your mods updated, you'll be fine.

[Celesian]

No the second shock does not build a harness darkness stack. It would be much better if it did but sadly it doesn't, it also doesn't seem to affect the +15% threat either.

[eNJocke]

So I'm not fully understanding the tanking stats properly..

 

What it boils down to is this? At max level keep Defense around 27%-30% at all rating levels While never going about it. But as you get better gear you keep defense at the same level but try to increase Shield and absorbed to 50% with Dark Ward up for maximum mitigation?

 

Or am I wrong/dumb? Just trying to simplify it

[SaikoDrakie]

how viable is assassin tanking on hardmodes threat wise? IE how doable is it to grab aggro of 5 mobs?

[Cleanse]

I am only level 41, but every heroic and flashpoint I have done, threat and mitigating damage has not been an issue.

 

- Not every mob needs to be tanked. A non elite can be tanked/bursted down by the dps as you wrangle things up.

- Once you get Mind Control you can get things off people who do not assist on correct mobs OR deal with threat resetting NPCs.

- Once you get your aoe taunt, you have yet another tool to round up mobs.

 

Early on a lot of tab targetting needs to be done... Once you get your taunts and more abilities things become a lot easier. If you've played a tank before, it should feel fine. If you haven't tanked before, learning how to round things up usually is part of the skillcap, not the class being weak.

 

Realize who you're grouped with... Sometimes you get people who listen and sometimes you get people who are "new". Marking things up and leading the group makes a big difference. If you're not sure what to do, general guidelines like "kill the non elites first -> silver -> gold -> boss" will usually be safe.