Darkness Tanking Compendium

[theonepanda]

I don't really understand the question.

 

You MUST have a shield equipped to have Dark Ward and other shield abilities to work, yes.

 

You MUST also be in dark charge stance in order to have your shield do anything.

 

Mods and Enhancements can have Shield rating on them. Those increase the chance you will absorb attacks with your shield.

[ChazDoit]

Raze never procs u_u

[theonepanda]

Raze never procs u_u

 

I also have it proc far lower than I expected T.T

 

And I get crits all the time! Its annoying.

 

I have also gone almost 30 seconds of straight thrashing w/o a single energize proc before, so ugh.

 

RNG is annoying.

[ChazDoit]

I have also gone almost 30 seconds of straight thrashing w/o a single energize proc before, so ugh.

 

Even so I can get 2 o 3 Energize procs before I get a Raze.

 

Harnessed Darkness seem somewhat more reliable since the proc has 100% chance, also you always auto-turn towards your enemy while casting Force Lightning, even in PVP

 

Maybe is because I tend to stack absorption and defense instead of critical rate

[theonepanda]

Raze is highly dependent on whether you have Exploitive Strikes up; it almost doubles your crit rate.

 

I am unsure whether thrash and saber strike really do have two/three chances to crit, if they don't, that severely devalues Raze.

 

I haven't tested the DPS of pure darkness. I will probably do that once my reset costs go down a bit.

 

Since yes, the proc is 100% off of a 50%, rather than 33% of of a ~25-30%.

[ChazDoit]

Raze is highly dependent on whether you have Exploitive Strikes up; it almost doubles your crit rate.

 

I almost always have Explotive Strikes up since Energize gives me an insta crit. however Raze doesn't proc that much since it's only 33% chance per melee crit. Sometimes I can get 2 procs and I wreck my enemy other times I can go an entire fight without a proc.

 

That's why I said Harnessed Darkness seems to be more reliable.

[theonepanda]

Definitely more reliable, yep.

 

However, don't forget you also miss out on 50% more thrash crit damage if you go pure darkness.

 

I believe thrash will be our highest total damage over the course of a boss fight.

 

The reason being that on average it will take 2 thrashes per shock...and if any part of that crits, it will do more damage than shock.

 

I believe our total damage breakdown will be something like

 

Thrash

Shock

Raze

Saber Strike

Assassinate

Dark Charge

Discharge

 

Dark charge might overtake assassinate because of overcharge saber.

[Vashramire]

I know this is slightly off topic, but due to people in pvp being able to gear for accuracy, I would believe that to diminish defences worth in a pvp environment and boost shielding and possibly absorbs worth. I'm almost to 40 so I have no concept of endgame gearing. I'm not even sure if darkness pvp even worries about mitigation sans talents and just gears dps or goes for a more durable gearing and can still do good damage.

[sankalp]

I also have it proc far lower than I expected T.T

 

And I get crits all the time! Its annoying.

 

I have also gone almost 30 seconds of straight thrashing w/o a single energize proc before, so ugh.

 

RNG is annoying.

 

Might be slightly off topic but apart from Raze, are there any procs that you might have noticed not occurring enough. I am trying to see what would be best for a DPS build and I believe guaranteed damage is better than proc damage exactly for the reason above. Things never proc when you need them

[The_Pro]

Hello. Great guide, especially the mitigation part. I haven't seen that anywhere else.. I hope your calculations are right because this is the first definitive post about mitigation weights that I've seen.

 

Now onto business

 

First off, there's been some math on sithwarrior.com regarding full darkness rotations, since you asked for some info on that topic. None of this is my math, so I'm not positive it's correct. You can find it on post #11 HERE

It confirms that assassinating below 30% generates more longterm threat than lightning, shock, and thrash. Assuming you want to keep the debuffs up, the single target rotation is something like

 

DW > Wither debuff > Discharge debuff > assassinate > FL > shock > thrash

 

Of course, assassinate doesn't increase survivability while FL, shock, and thrash do. It's also probably worth it to shock if harnessed darkness is about to fall off, even if you don't have a proc, but I'm not positive.

 

For 2 mobs, it's the same, but wither on CD increases total threat.

 

For 3-4 mobs, it is

 

DW > wither on CD > discharge on CD > FL > shock > lacerate

main difference being that lacerate > thrash

 

For 5+ mobs, it's DW > wither > discharge > lacerate

 

 

 

I also have a question regarding the viability of the hybrid build. I'm level 46 currently, and I've been leveling as full darkness. It seems like the hybrid build has a LOT more threat, both single and AoE. My question: is it needed for HM flashpoints and operations? Obviously full darkness is better for survivability, but is the extra threat really worth it, possibly just for HM flashpoints?

[Celesian]

I have finally gotten to the point where I am mostly legendary geared in all slots and all of it being battlemaster or equiv in item level, and I must say after watching Powertech and Jugg's tank every mob in sight the assassin is very very squishy in comparison. I'm at 380 defense rating 200 absorb and 195 shield rating. Dark Ward is typically falling off right as the CD is up which is telling me that the combination of stat's is getting close enough to keep dark ward up 100% without ever being starved of it. Anytime I have multiple mobs on me i seem to go down to 20% health in seconds this is with Dark Ward up on the pull and throwing wither on the mobs.

 

I have also noticed that mobs seem to be very tricky to get agro on if they are spread out. This problem is made worse by the severe lack of range on our abilities. I've personally ran up to a single mob tossed wither on it then shock, used thrash got shock proc used it again and mob run's off for the healer. I mean really all that dmg burst on to the mob and a healer pulls agro? If your busy gathering up the elite/strong mobs your taunts are usually on CD and you have no tool's left to get the mob off the healer.

 

I tried dps'ing a bit to and watched other tanks go at it. The mobs are on them like glue and it's almost impossible to pull off them. I've also watched them go solo into 4-5 elite lvl 50 mobs and come out of it at 99% health. Even with Talos out if i get more than 1 elite on me i am popping CD's the whole time to stay alive.

 

I say this because I am trying to determine the right amount of defense and shield rating to become a viable tank. Right now I am beginning to wonder if the assassin is just to weak compared to the other tanks. As for the agro problem I think it has to do with only having 1 high agro move and that is wither and it's on a long CD. Possibly a buff to Dark Surge in the future for better agro management.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Celesian

[Zilod]

mah so far didnt notice much difference in tanking between sin and jug, for BHs cant comment as powertech as quite rare atm (but my next toon prob is going to be one )

 

i'm a bit wary of wither, the aggro generation doesnt seem that big actually, and the usual trash+shock seem to generate more aggro

 

 

just theorycrafting but a build that may be worth considering (and i havent seen posted yet) is 23/17/1... a bit of niche build but the 30% dmg reduction on aoe seem pretty promising for quite a few boss fights, the tradeoff is no wither so no dmg debuff/weak aoe aggro and no harnessed darkness, that is nice to have but prob not going to have a big impact in ops

 

also deception offers cheaper shocks, some added force regen and a veeeeeeery nice reduction on jolt and unbreakable will

 

i have yet to try that (standard 31/0/10 atm) but i plan to do that the next week

[Celesian]

I think I am going to try a different spec out tonight. For single target boss tanking 31pts in Darkness seems to be the best. However the spec is definately not cutting it for AOE agro and multiple mobs. I think deathfield should be reworked and restore 1% health per mob hit with a 5 mob limit. This would make it very strong for tanks but less so for dps to keep things balanced. I do think the agro on wither is not working right which wouldn't surprise me. I will report back after trying out a different build.

[theonepanda]

Wither is better for aoe threat than DF. DF has no threat multiplier, and it is clunky to use, and only hits 3 targets.

 

The hybrid build sacrifices 5% survivability for a lot more single target damage.

 

I enjoy tank dps and I believe tank dps to definitely not be insignificant. Sort of how tank damage in cata now is pretty insane, while tank damage in early cata was very low.

 

Threat is a moot point on single targets. It is impossible for anyone to pull off you even if you just thrash.

 

As for accuracy vs defensive stats...try as I might, no matter what you're going to get some accuracy on gear. My implants always have a bit of accuracy, and thats fine. Just don't go stat for it when you can get defense/shield/absorb instead.

 

You don't need it for the threat. It just slightly increases your dps. Yea, spread out mobs (such as in directive 7) are a huge pain. I usually just sprint around and lacerate a few times.

 

Most of the time they are normals or at most silvers, so many classes' aoes auto cc them anyway, so I tend not to worry while I gather up the golds and silvers.

 

There is no reason why you would be squishier than a powertech or jug. Look at the stats and the talents. We definately have a bit lower armor (5-10% lower, its not a big deal) but we have so much more mitigation and shield. Almost 10% more base defense than a powertech, and much more shield chance than everyone else.

 

And we are one of if not the best single target dps (if you go darkness/madness) tanks. I pull off my powertech tanking buddy almost immediately after he taunts. Our dps is fine.

 

Don't forget you also have your small, but constant healing from dark charge. It doesn't seem like much, but at later levels it isn't too shabby.

 

Also...force shroud is amazing. You can ignore boss mechanics every 45 seconds. Pretty sweet!

[theonepanda]

mah so far didnt notice much difference in tanking between sin and jug, for BHs cant comment as powertech as quite rare atm (but my next toon prob is going to be one )

 

i'm a bit wary of wither, the aggro generation doesnt seem that big actually, and the usual trash+shock seem to generate more aggro

 

 

just theorycrafting but a build that may be worth considering (and i havent seen posted yet) is 23/17/1... a bit of niche build but the 30% dmg reduction on aoe seem pretty promising for quite a few boss fights, the tradeoff is no wither so no dmg debuff/weak aoe aggro and no harnessed darkness, that is nice to have but prob not going to have a big impact in ops

 

also deception offers cheaper shocks, some added force regen and a veeeeeeery nice reduction on jolt and unbreakable will

 

i have yet to try that (standard 31/0/10 atm) but i plan to do that the next week

 

The cheaper shocks are not worth it.

 

Madness, you pick up exploitive strikes and chain shock, which more than make up for induction. I actually end up force capping a lot if I don't get a shock proc anyway. Force is generally a nonissue.

 

AoE damage reduction is certainly nice, but I haven't seen any real reason to have it. Furthermore, you can force shroud any aoe you feel like.

 

The jolt cd reduction is great in theory. However, in reality you will have anywhere from 1-4 other melee with you. You should be alternating interrupts. Furthermore, any significant boss timer is set to be interruptible with one normal length jolt, or combination of alternating jolts.

 

Furthermore for interrupting nonbosses, you have so many tools at your disposal, namely overload, force pull, spike, electrocute, and should you choose to talent it, whirlwind.

 

I also have a question regarding the viability of the hybrid build. I'm level 46 currently, and I've been leveling as full darkness. It seems like the hybrid build has a LOT more threat, both single and AoE. My question: is it needed for HM flashpoints and operations? Obviously full darkness is better for survivability, but is the extra threat really worth it, possibly just for HM flashpoints?

 

Its an alternate build. I might also say, is wither worth it? Is 5% damage reduction necessary for HM flashpoints?

 

If you are on the bleeding edge of content (like doing heroic operations or something), it might be necessary to ponder on these points for hours and debate it.

 

For me, I don't really have the time for it right now (also my guild is lazy and they're still mostly 48, grumblemumble lol), I just enjoy theorycrafting.

 

The short answer is, it depends. It depends a lot on the performance of your other dps, and the performance of your healers, whether one is more useful than the other. It also depends on the flashpoint or operation that you're doing.

 

Frankly it will likely not affect your success or failure on a flashpoint whether you go darkness or darkness/madness.

 

I will say I prefer darkness/madness because I don't like being rooted for 3 seconds. I also dislike having another force dump when I'm using most of it for thrashes to keep up energize. I enjoy watching an extra buff and planning out my next step to maximize my buffs.

 

Darkness/madness is more work to maximize your dps. Pure darkness is less interesting imo and kinda boring.

 

Darkness/madness does more dps. Pure darkness is more survivable.

 

EDIT: also after checking my equations vs the ones on sithwarrior, I can say with confidence that my equations are correct. The only possible problems may come from floating point inaccuracies. I will likely port the equations to MATLAB eventually, and see if that is more accurate.

Edited December 30, 2011 by theonepanda

[Zilod]

AoE damage reduction is certainly nice, but I haven't seen any real reason to have it. Furthermore, you can force shroud any aoe you feel like.

 

The jolt cd reduction is great in theory. However, in reality you will have anywhere from 1-4 other melee with you. You should be alternating interrupts. Furthermore, any significant boss timer is set to be interruptible with one normal length jolt, or combination of alternating jolts.

 

Furthermore for interrupting nonbosses, you have so many tools at your disposal, namely overload, force pull, spike, electrocute, and should you choose to talent it, whirlwind.

 

 

it depends by how does work the dmg reduction, if is on "ground" or pb aoe only it is generally avoidable but if it will work on direct aoe attacks or attacks with aoe component there are quite a few bosses with high dmg low cd "unavoidable" aoe dmg (eg HK, boarding party boss, pretty much every bh or trooper based bosses).... again it need some testing, but if it works i can see that dmg reduction as extremely valuable

 

 

for jolt it depends by the situation and composition... true that generally bosses are interruptable by 2 people so for all the "single boss fights" is not a biggie, but it can come handly as an offtank tool or when tanking the main boss while the group focus on adds

Edited December 30, 2011 by Zilod

[theonepanda]

What I meant was I have yet to need it, or feel like I need it.

 

Please try it out though! I don't think the loss in tank damage is really worth it, but then again I have a preference for being tanky and dishing out a lot of hurt.

 

Of course both talents are -nice- to have. However you cannot just consider them in the vacuum of being good talents; you give up a lot, whether it be self healing and 5% damage reduction or lots of single target dps, in order to obtain them.

 

From what I can see the rest of the talents in that tree are fairly worthless (we really do not need additional force regen...its very easy to cap out already).

 

And its not like you can vanish in the middle of combat to get some more regen without having someone in your raid die.

Edited December 30, 2011 by theonepanda

[gkshow]

Awesome post, thanks a lot!

 

I actually have been using your advice from another of my posts (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47761).

 

I just have a quick question in regards to 31/0/10 vs 25/0/16...which one is better for leveling? In terms of speed and survivability.

 

I am only level 20 though, so sadly I can't perform the full rotation that you suggest.

 

As for tanking...couple of questions...For AoE, until you get Death Field, do I just spam Discharge?

 

And -noob question incoming- do Tankassins get a taunt, and if so when? I seem to find myself losing aggro quiet often. Any tips?

[LazyBoot]

And -noob question incoming- do Tankassins get a taunt, and if so when? I seem to find myself losing aggro quiet often. Any tips?

 

Level 16, Mind Control

[theonepanda]

Awesome post, thanks a lot!

 

I actually have been using your advice from another of my posts (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=47761).

 

I just have a quick question in regards to 31/0/10 vs 25/0/16...which one is better for leveling? In terms of speed and survivability.

 

I am only level 20 though, so sadly I can't perform the full rotation that you suggest.

 

As for tanking...couple of questions...For AoE, until you get Death Field, do I just spam Discharge?

 

And -noob question incoming- do Tankassins get a taunt, and if so when? I seem to find myself losing aggro quiet often. Any tips?

 

For one thing, there will be no difference till 33.

 

I had no problems leveling 23/0/17. You can certainly try the 31/0/0 route - maybe see if force lightning is more your cup of tea. Wither won't affect leveling much...5% is too little to notice.

 

I filled out the darkness tree until I got eye of the storm and Electrify, then went and got DF (found that its terrible T.T), then got claws of decay, finished DF focus reduction - those 2 points might actually be better spent elsewhere, we'll see, and got raze. Then I went and got force pull and one more tanking talent (i think it was one of the ones i've missed). Then I am sitting on one extra point. Not really sure what to do with it lol.

[gkshow]

In the 25/0/16 built, I noticed that 2 points go into Lightning Recovery...it seems to me that talent is more PvP oriented...would it be better, for PvE focus, to put them in Swelling Shadows and/or Electric Execution?

[theonepanda]

In the 25/0/16 built, I noticed that 2 points go into Lightning Recovery...it seems to me that talent is more PvP oriented...would it be better, for PvE focus, to put them in Swelling Shadows and/or Electric Execution?

 

I thought we talked about this a while ago lol.

 

Lightning recovery is amazing for PvE as well.

 

You should always have Swelling Shadows.

 

Electric Excecution is worthless; Dark charge does no damage.

[gkshow]

Thanks, appreciated!

 

Can't wait to actually get some of the talents so I can have a better/full rotation.

[WildWolfay]

Some decent info but have never once known in a game where some higher damage would be taken over an overall 5% damage reduction, seems off to me? Also seem to put out more damage with a thrash>Shock combo with enough to wither and discharge on demand, and saber striking rarely between that.

[MrSteak]

OK, I'm just gonna come out and ask and look like a noobcake.

 

Which stat gets priority, Endurance or Willpower? Or would it be advisable for now to go with a balance of both (probably a bad idea)?