Darkness Tanking Compendium

[MarsellusW]

i have a question (maybe is a silly one but still)

 

do we have to prioritize willpower over endurance? Many of the mods have endurance and willpower, and we can choose the one with end > willp or the other one with willp > end.

So which one should we take?

 

Great guide btw

[theonepanda]

It really depends on what you're tanking.

 

It also depends on your group makeup.

 

You'll have to experiment yourself; I went with more willpower than endurance mods (i still had more endurance overall), but your primary concern will be defensive attributes (def shield absorb).

 

I will say you will need some baseline amount of health to tank hardmodes, beyond that, you can do what you like.

[Maestrodomus]

I've been tanking basic HM and higher end normal mode for our guild about a week now using 31-0-10.

 

I would voice some of the same concerns, but for the most part it's really fun despite our limitations. AoE threat can be rough. Wither feels very ineffective in the middle of a fight compared to off the rip whereas my standard taunts pull aggro right back. Wither is also a pain when trying to manage aoe aggro while stunned mobs are around you that can't be hit.

 

I feel squishy at times and need to be on top of Force Shroud, Dark Ward, Overcharge, defense relic, shield/absorb relic, Discharge, 3X stack of Force Lightning, and Wither to stay up the whole fight, but that makes it fun.

 

The new patch should help with both those issues.

[Panzerfire]

Hey there quick question,

 

 

Wouldn't it in general be better to use a 33-0-8 build ? Which is the same as the standard build except that you put two points of Chain Shock into Electric Execution.

 

I'll start using this build from now on to see how it works, basically its a 6% dark charge dmg ( above 3% from 1 point ) vs 30% chance for 50% shock dmg ( above the 15% from 1 point )

 

I think that this build would get more dps than the 31-0-10 spec, you're using trash for most of your dps anyway, which activates dark charge and not shock.

 

Anyway, tell me what you think, and hopefully this build will improve even more with the next patch ( levelled dark charge so more damage )

[shadowsuko]

Sorry Im new to tanking so i know this may be a silly question. In your guide you say we should get our def chance as close as possible to 30%, though it takes forever to even get 1%. Atm with some purples and daily moded gear I'm sitting on 24% while my absortion is on 40% and with dark ward my shield is on 52%. Wouldnt it better to stack more shield and absorption rather def? I know in other MMO you always stack def as a tank but here it jut doesnt seem to get you far.

[Vesperr]

Just a few noob questions:

-Can you shield/evade when you are stunned? It seems that you cant and it makes tankasin quite weak in PvP compared to other tanks (dunno about DD though).

 

-What PvP abilities can I deflect/shield, because it seems that I can deflect/shield snipe but I can do nothing against tracer missile (considering its damage and ability to reduce armor+armor penetration cylinder >_< )

 

-Is it intended that +10% armor buff from (skilled sorcs and mercs) healing give 10% bonus to default armor, not overall armor, making it very weak buff for tankasin.

 

-On the other hand, if I get debuffed -armor %, will it reduce base armor or will it reduce bonus armor (basicly, will -10% armor reduce my armor by 10% or the 170% armor bonus will become 160% bonus). And what about -N (fixed ammount) armor debuff, will it deduct from base armor (thus lowering tankasin armor a lot) or will it deduct from overall armor.

 

 

p.s. juggs -armor attack, is it % based or fixed armor debuff?

 

 

Thanks in advance ^_^

Edited January 10, 2012 by Vesperr

[sollet]

Sorry Im new to tanking so i know this may be a silly question. In your guide you say we should get our def chance as close as possible to 30%, though it takes forever to even get 1%. Atm with some purples and daily moded gear I'm sitting on 24% while my absortion is on 40% and with dark ward my shield is on 52%. Wouldnt it better to stack more shield and absorption rather def? I know in other MMO you always stack def as a tank but here it jut doesnt seem to get you far.

 

I am wondering the same.... Most gears I am getting from flash points and random drops seems to be absorption + accuracy...

 

Please answer his question

Edited January 10, 2012 by sollet

[theonepanda]

I am wondering the same.... Most gears I am getting from flash points and random drops seems to be absorption + accuracy...

 

Please answer his question

 

I don't understand.

 

Where do I suggest that you should get def as close as possible to 30%?

 

I never used direct percentages. I only gave ratings totals. I have no idea what your def percentages are (that is to say, the program I wrote calculates it, and uses it to optimize your stat spread, but I didn't write it down in my first post).

 

Lets take a line for example

 

• 700 Rating - 40.19% Mitigation. 400 Defense. 50 Shield. 250 Absorb. 44.80% Hit Chance.
  

 

What this line means is as follows

 

• 700 rating: This means that if your rating total (def rating + shield rating + absorption rating) is equal to or around 700, then you should use this line to optimize your stat spread
  
• 40.19% Mitigation: This tells you the approximate amount of DAMAGE you will mitigate. It is not directly equal to your def chance, shield chance, or absorb amount. Rather it is derived from the totals of those percentages.
  
• 400 Defense: This tells you to aim for 400 defense rating to maximize mitigation.
  
• 50 Shield: This tells you to aim for 50 shield rating to maximize mitigation.
  
• 250 Absorb: This tells you to aim for 250 absorption rating to maximize mitigation.
  
• 44.80% Hit Chance: This tells you your chance to be hit by a full, unavoided, unshielded attack.
  

 

I'm not sure where you get 30% defense from.

 

I also understand that some or even most of the gear you get will be suboptimal.

 

That is -okay-. Just try to optimize to the best of your ability/budget.

Edited January 10, 2012 by theonepanda

[punman]

Just as a point of reference, collecting the Exemplar's pieces from commendations off the last two planets gets you nearly a full set of boots/robes/chest/gloves/head with decent stats. Filling in the off-slots with auction house blues or whatnot can get you a set approaching 300 defense with little effort.

 

Then when you start to pick up Champ or Cent pieces in pvp ... they all have absorption. Sadness.

[gkshow]

• 700 rating: This means that if your rating total (def rating + shield rating + absorption rating) is equal to or around 700, then you should use this line to optimize your stat spread
  
• 40.19% Mitigation: This tells you the approximate amount of DAMAGE you will mitigate. It is not directly equal to your def chance, shield chance, or absorb amount. Rather it is derived from the totals of those percentages.
  
• 400 Defense: This tells you to aim for 400 defense rating to maximize mitigation.
  
• 50 Shield: This tells you to aim for 50 shield rating to maximize mitigation.
  
• 250 Absorb: This tells you to aim for 250 absorption rating to maximize mitigation.
  
• 44.80% Hit Chance: This tells you your chance to be hit by a full, unavoided, unshielded attack.
  

 

So, how easy/hard is it to obtain these numbers? Do you buy special crafted tanking gear? Do the HM FPs have good drops for tanks?

 

How and where do you gear up as a "starter level 50 tank"?

[punman]

So, how easy/hard is it to obtain these numbers? Do you buy special crafted tanking gear? Do the HM FPs have good drops for tanks?

 

How and where do you gear up as a "starter level 50 tank"?

 

I sorta answered this right above your post. You can re-slot some epic mods from the GTN into that gear to boost the ratings a bit. You'll need to buy/craft/whatever bracers, belt, and the other slots. You'll probably need a defense relic of some sort, which is sort of an "oh-crap" button for when you're tanking a boss during a tricky bit OR if pvp is your thing when you are focus fired by the other team.

 

I think there's a decent tanky lightsaber from comms too. I haven't checked Ilum's daily commendation vendor because I haven't been keeping up on repeatable quests there other than the pvp daily from the fleet (bad, bad Fex.)

[gkshow]

Also, I've read often that people are happy/content with the 31/0/10 built for tanking at level 50...

 

So, what is the reasoning for going 25/0/16 (or 23/0/18 or a variation) over 31/0/10, say around level 30s, when tanking picks up.

[theonepanda]

You get more straight up damage as Raze/Claws of Decay.

 

Furthermore splitting into madness earlier gets you Exploitive Strikes earlier, which is part of the core of either build.

 

Furthermore fights (unless you're doing golds) typically don't last too long and your harnessed darknesses may fall off.

 

Death field is a good pull starter as it gets you a 30 yard attack.

 

Furthermore, typically you will be tanking at least 2 or 3 mobs in a leveling pull, while in operations and HMs you will focus on tanking one big boss (or add) while the others are CC'd or just chain AoE'd/CC'd down by BHs or Sorcs.

 

Basically, madness split offers more damage earlier, and less survivability. You don't really need more survivability in leveling, and should focus on killing faster.

[Cirro]

What are you using in your offhand? Not sure if i should be using a focus or shield item in off hand so asking what you guys would suggest. Thanks

[theonepanda]

You must use a shield offhand in order to have the chance to shield.

 

So yes, you must use a shield to tank.

[ShadowLa]

I have a question: I am 29 now. I see gear with Power and with Crit. Do I use Power ? Or do I use crit ? Or do I use either ?

 

Also do Artifice get any shields I can actually use ? I keep seeing patterns that use strength....

[shadowsuko]

I don't understand.

 

Where do I suggest that you should get def as close as possible to 30%?

 

I never used direct percentages. I only gave ratings totals. I have no idea what your def percentages are (that is to say, the program I wrote calculates it, and uses it to optimize your stat spread, but I didn't write it down in my first post).

 

 

 

At level 50, stats are broken down in the following ways

Defense - Gives total Avoidance. Capped at 30%. Takes 27.5 rating to increase 1%.*

Shield - Chance of "blocking" a hit. Capped at 50%. Takes 16 rating to increase 1%.*

Absorb - Increases amount blocked. Capped at 50%. Takes 9 rating to increase 1%.*

 

Below are the breakdowns based on your approximate total rating, maximizing mitigation.

300 Rating - 31.79% Mitigation. 200 Defense. 0 Shield. 100 Absorb. 50.34% Hit Chance.

400 Rating - 34.18% Mitigation. 300 Defense. 0 Shield. 100 Absorb. 48.57% Hit Chance.

500 Rating - 36.36% Mitigation. 350 Defense. 0 Shield. 150 Absorb. 47.77% Hit Chance.

600 Rating - 38.33% Mitigation. 400 Defense. 0 Shield. 200 Absorb. 47.01% Hit Chance.

700 Rating - 40.19% Mitigation. 400 Defense. 50 Shield. 250 Absorb. 44.80% Hit Chance.

800 Rating - 42.06% Mitigation. 350 Defense. 150 Shield. 300 Absorb. 41.43% Hit Chance.

 

Also with your ratings there, are you only considering purple gear pve gear your get from raids or pvp gear?

 

Im only asking cuz never in any gear that I had since 50 (or even getting to 50) did i have 0 shield and very little absorb. In fact you will always, at least as a sin tank, have much less def than shield and absorb.

If we take my character for example, he has green and blue implants, earpiece, bracers, belt, and orange head, hands, chest, pants and lightsaber. The mods on the gear are from daily badges or daily heroic rewards. My rating were about (from the top of my head as I cant see the stats atm) def= 175 shield = 225 absorb = 219. So my total rating is 619 yet your 600 rating is 400 def. Where on earth can I stack more def to get to raids where all my mod slots have at least +21 def. Better yet you don't take shield into account here and thats my best rating.

 

I also thought that as a sin tank you should focus more on shield and absorb since you have dark ward and since it takes a massive amount of def to get you close to the cap level. I have a relic that on use gives me an extra 250 def. this only increases my def chance by 5%. so in total when thats active my def chance is 26%. I don't understand well the whole class and im not saying you are wrong, I'm just trying to get where you pull the numbers from and taken a massive def rating and ignored shield til your 700 rating, which at that point you should have some purples from raids or HM.

As a sin tank I get the feeling other classes don't consider us as proper tanks and only use us as OT since they prefer a powertech or jugg as a MT, so trying to understand what stats i should be looking for in order to maximise my raiding chances.

[theonepanda]

The lists are theoretical maximized mitigation.

 

You will never reach those. I know you will likely never have 0% shield. But 0 shield and more def will result in higher mitigation.

 

They are goals.

 

If you want, I can try putting together an actual BiS list.

 

The problem is there are so many different ways of getting loot, that its hard to make one that is viable for the majority of people to meet.

[shadowsuko]

Yeah thats true, too many unknowns of whether you are modding gear, which mods, etc. Nah that list be time consuming. Thanks for clearing that up though.

[pooll]

How much hit do darkness tanks need since most of there moves use force power? is it better to spec for mitigation rather then hit cap first?

[CaptainEvers]

Unless I'm mistaken, I've got the BiS earpiece.. Maybe not BiS, but its got 128 defensive stat rating alone..

 

72END

42WILL

27ACC

28ABSORB (augment)

40SHIELD

60DEFENSE

[Voar]

Thank you for the defensive rating and stat breakdowns.

 

I know the def/shield/absorb totals are theoretical and more than likely not possible to nail perfectly, but I am finding it hard to come even close. I have artifice as a craft and have access to a whole lot of different options with the enhancement mod slot. The problem is the enhancement slot is either def + shield or shield + absorb. I really want a def + absorb option but they apparently don’t exist. I want to stack absorb and defense to the totals indicated but I come up short and end up with more shield than I would like.

 

On Torhead they list a “Robust” Mod for the mod slot that has absorb on it, but my Cybertech buddy says he can’t buy any schematics for mods that are of the “robust” variety. Is this mod in game? With our ward adding a lot to our shield rating already it would be nice to have an option to solely stat absorb. This seems to be another case of extremely poor itemization in regards to Assassins/Shadows. I mean I can’t even make a Willpower based shield…WTF!?

 

I would love for someone to do a BIS list. Does anyone have a list of mods for orange gear on a fresh 50 to come as close to the ideal ratios?

[theonepanda]

I would love for someone to do a BIS list. Does anyone have a list of mods for orange gear on a fresh 50 to come as close to the ideal ratios?

 

I am working on it.

 

As for implants/earpiece, what a poster posted above is probably BiS, the Veracity (+def +shield) epic modded earpiece/implant.

 

You should almost be able to hit the 700 mark from what I can tell; if you do, you have leeway for a bit of shield at least. I do think we will overshoot the mark for shield.

 

I am going to tweak my simulator a bit to show the minimum possible shield, it might skew the numbers in favor of more absorb vs def.

 

EDIT: on the note of orange gear, can someone tell me what mods an orange bracers/belt can hold?

 

As far as I can tell they can have up to 3 slots, armoring, mod, and augment. However, I've only seen 2 slot variants.

 

As far as I know you should be able to get robust...if you can't, then ugh, I have to redo my BIS list.

Edited January 12, 2012 by theonepanda

[CaptainEvers]

Also, we have to anticipate the 2 piece Rakata set bonus, meaning even less shield rating will be needed.. correct?

[theonepanda]

Also, we have to anticipate the 2 piece Rakata set bonus, meaning even less shield rating will be needed.. correct?

 

Possibly, though remember set bonuses and skill bonuses do not take into account diminishing returns.

 

It may still be better to stick with the current setup if you can.

 

I have to rework a lot of things, and I'm at work right now so I don't have access to my simulator.

 

EDIT: oh dear. I am approaching 1100+ rating with BiS crafted epics, which i didn't run my simulator to yet.

 

So...hrm. I am going to have to go home first before I can get yall your data.

Edited January 12, 2012 by theonepanda