JackNader Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Seriously this isn't 1999, online games don't blindly trust the clients. The elder scrolls online would like to have a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Reading is hard. You can't adjust the client because sever holds all the cards, if you client has been modified, particularly when it comes to abilities, the server will realize that your client is different and reject whatever you are trying to do. Seriously this isn't 1999, online games don't blindly trust the clients. LOL... Tell me, did you learn that on a corn flakes box or do you actually happen to have a degree in computer science? The fact that you find reading hard probably means you don't have a computer science degree I would post proof, how too's, screen shots and web links if I didn't know Bio would just delete a legitimate thread... Plus the last thing I want to do is show people how to do it! There aren't too many people doing it at the moment, most players are above board... But I'm sure most genuine people would agree that showing more people how to do it would only encourage those people inclined to do the wrong thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 LOL... Tell me, did you learn that on a corn flakes box or do you actually happen to have a degree in computer science? *cough* Yes I do *cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 *cough* Yes I do *cough* So you should know better... Anyway the argument is moot... You disagree... I disagree... Let's just agree to disagree You might find this interesting... A bit off topic... I found this link while researching a Sydney Morning Herald story http://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/hackers-target-games-to-find-ways-to-cheat-581308?site=classic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Reading is hard. You can't adjust the client because sever holds all the cards, if you client has been modified, particularly when it comes to abilities, the server will realize that your client is different and reject whatever you are trying to do. Seriously this isn't 1999, online games don't blindly trust the clients. That's actually not true. All games that run through a server have specific things that only the client runs. If the server handled everything it would crash from the amount of data it has to deal with. This is why for example in FFXI you could change the way certain NPC looked or for example you could swap out files to have different battle music (on your game only obviously) because all of that was handled by the client. I had swapped all my FFXI battle music once to be random battle music from all FF games and the moogle in my player inn was changed to a dragon using one of the games .dat files. All of the is handled by the client, which is also why only I would ever see the changed .dat files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 That's actually not true. All games that run through a server have specific things that only the client runs. If the server handled everything it would crash from the amount of data it has to deal with. This is why for example in FFXI you could change the way certain NPC looked or for example you could swap out files to have different battle music (on your game only obviously) because all of that was handled by the client. I had swapped all my FFXI battle music once to be random battle music from all FF games and the moogle in my player inn was changed to a dragon using one of the games .dat files. All of the is handled by the client, which is also why only I would ever see the changed .dat files. That's because the client is in charge of rendering, music, and other aesthetics. You cannot modify abilities, and things that are related to gameplay. derp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tellenn Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 (edited) That's actually not true. All games that run through a server have specific things that only the client runs. If the server handled everything it would crash from the amount of data it has to deal with. This is why for example in FFXI you could change the way certain NPC looked or for example you could swap out files to have different battle music (on your game only obviously) because all of that was handled by the client. I had swapped all my FFXI battle music once to be random battle music from all FF games and the moogle in my player inn was changed to a dragon using one of the games .dat files. All of the is handled by the client, which is also why only I would ever see the changed .dat files. Textures and game assets are abit different than changing gcd, geometry or player positioning. As Zoom said hacking is very different than it was in 1999. Much more is handled servers side now or at least has checks in place. You can't hack gcd or ability use anymore as its all servers side and there are checks in place that detect speed hacks and teleports. About the only things modern servers struggle with are things like clipping and multi jump hacks as it changes the client geometry but doesn't break server rules. Edited August 28, 2014 by Tellenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Textures and game assets are abit different than changing gcd, geometry or player positioning. As Zoom said hacking is very different than it was in 1999. Much more is handled servers side now or at least has checks in place. You can't hack gcd or ability use anymore as its all servers side and there are checks in place that detect speed hacks and teleports. About the only things modern servers struggle with are things like clipping and multi jump hacks as it changes the client geometry but doesn't break server rules. My point was that not everything is handled server side. Its why things like speed hacks exist as obviously player movement speed is controlled somewhat on the client side. Whether it gets caught or not is not the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyJef Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I agree that the majority of it is really just the more elusive game mechanics, especially boost/buff combinations that require multiple classes ( such as a Sage's Force Speed on top of a Sentinel's Transcendence). Snoop around the internet and find some of the swtor mechanic threads, and especially advanced-class articles and pvp strategy guides. You'll find some pretty amazing abilities that definitely look like cheats at first glance... That being said... omg gaming industry, just use the server clock and save us from that one Real cheater. It's probably the same few people across all the games I've ever played, but the mere possibility of him existing frequently has the accusations spreading like some bizarre chatbox disease. I know it'd require a heavier-duty server in some cases, but could probably be worked out to take up less bandwidth than redundant data checks. Let the hackers think they're cheating while the server maintains a proper rule-enforced game state, and use any bandwidth you save to smooth out gameplay for non-hackers. Bandwidth is advancing a gazillion times slower than processor speed and memory, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teclado Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I just skim all this stuff and think to myself....I don't think any of these people really know what they are talking about. Granted, neither would I, but I'm not really talking...er...typing...much. There's probably some correct stuff here and there, but for the average clueless person like me, there is no way to filter it. The internet probably consists of about 99% misinformation. So, if you read it on the internet, chances are it is wrong. My post is probably mostly wrong, too. I am typing wrong stuff right now...heh. So anyway, I arrive at the inevitable conclusion that I am wasting my time reading this stuff. You have just wasted some of your time reading my post. Congratulations, I have probably now made you dumber-er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I just skim all this stuff and think to myself....I don't think any of these people really know what they are talking about. Granted, neither would I, but I'm not really talking...er...typing...much. There's probably some correct stuff here and there, but for the average clueless person like me, there is no way to filter it. The internet probably consists of about 99% misinformation. So, if you read it on the internet, chances are it is wrong. My post is probably mostly wrong, too. I am typing wrong stuff right now...heh. So anyway, I arrive at the inevitable conclusion that I am wasting my time reading this stuff. You have just wasted some of your time reading my post. Congratulations, I have probably now made you dumber-er. LMAO... Best post . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 There are definitely some great guides out there that explain the different class mechanics... When you learn to recognise these you can either exploit them if being used on your team ie transcendence pop... Sage pops speed run and you double your speed... Or you can learn to counter them... At least you won't make false hack reports As I have mentioned there are only a few people who actually do the wrong thing and it depends on how often they play and what server they are on to see them hacking... You may find little to none on your server, while there might be more than average on another... If they play a lot you will see this more, even though it might only be 4-5 on your server Also anyone who actually has any IT training or industry exposer to game clients, servers, security should know how this stuff works or at least know how to do proper research and filter out the internet rubbish to find the real answers.The program's that allow people to adjust their abilities are all done client side... I can say it till I'm as blue as a Chiss... But those are the facts... Without me posting links and how too's there will be people who argue this... I suggest if you really want to know the truth you research it your self... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquor Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) I've been told that copy and paste is a macro and considered hacking. Ie cheating. I'm still waiting for BW to contact me after the reports. What do you say about full screen windowed mode and alt+tab to desktop where notepad is pre-filled with incoming calls. East. West. Pylon. Snow, grass. A quick ctrl+c and renter game to pre-fill chat as you load into the WZ. Now when guarding and someone starts your way, hit enter twice. Your incoming message is sent. Add special characters so this message sticks out. There's something to be said in a WZ when 3 people say, "did you just see that!?" on comms at the same time. Seasoned players know what to look for and it's hard to see lag affecting all 3 at once. Then a forth streaming and recording, catching it durning this *** moment. The 2 of the three that are known to do it didn't today. But that's not to say they will pick it up again. There's still much you can do client side to give yourself an advantage. Changing colors, images, sounds, inducing lag. But do these crutches actually make them a better player?? They don't win matches as often. People leave WZ and generally avoid them. You're right. Need to change guilds and character name to get away from the stain left from other players. So now that is affecting your pocketbook along with your gaming experience. So why isn't BW taking hold of this more? It turns away paying customers. There is a much larger problem than some child cheating in an online video game when it forces others to spend real money on their reputation created by a small group. Edited August 29, 2014 by Liquor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Definitely doesn't make them better players... Actually makes them worse because they rely so heavily on them to play... You can really tell when Bio patch a hole and they have to play without the hack... You absolutely destroy them... Until the hack programmers find a work around... Usually only a few days... You can also go to a hack site and see them all complaining and asking the programmers to fix it fast... As soon as it's back on they troll the people who singled them out and smashed them while the hacks were off... So funny... Because you can still normally beat them one on one... It's just a bit harder . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raansu Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I've been told that copy and paste is a macro and considered hacking. Ie cheating. I'm still waiting for BW to contact me after the reports. What? No it isn't lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Also anyone who actually has any IT training or industry exposer to game clients, servers, security should know how this stuff works or at least know how to do proper research and filter out the internet rubbish to find the real answers. The program's that allow people to adjust their abilities are all done client side... I can say it till I'm as blue as a Chiss... But those are the facts... Without me posting links and how too's there will be people who argue this... I suggest if you really want to know the truth you research it your self... Abilities are NOT done client side. The only thing the client does is tell the server when you want to use a ability, but the server still gets final say in whether you can use that ability. You are wrong, period. If abilities where client side we would be seeing ability hacks on at least a Simi-regular basis, but we don't because those hacks don't exist. The only "hacks" that exist are some position/speed hacks, and some fancy lag tricks, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkarabats Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Abilities are NOT done client side. The only thing the client does is tell the server when you want to use a ability, but the server still gets final say in whether you can use that ability. You are wrong, period. If abilities where client side we would be seeing ability hacks on at least a Simi-regular basis, but we don't because those hacks don't exist. The only "hacks" that exist are some position/speed hacks, and some fancy lag tricks, nothing more. I have seen nontargetable hacks. I have seen people cap turrets before the game started. Teleporting, complete stealth capping. maybe some are exploits but I have seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Abilities are NOT done client side. The only thing the client does is tell the server when you want to use a ability, but the server still gets final say in whether you can use that ability. You are wrong, period. If abilities where client side we would be seeing ability hacks on at least a Simi-regular basis, but we don't because those hacks don't exist. The only "hacks" that exist are some position/speed hacks, and some fancy lag tricks, nothing more. You make me laugh... This is going to be my last response to you... I know you're just Trolling me... If people want to know the truth they can go and research it... You and I arguing just muddies the water People if you want to know the truth if it is client side or not... Go look on the web... Zoom_VI has nfi... You just have to look at all his posts through most the other threads in swtor... He likes to go on the offensive no matter the argument or how it makes him look... I would suggest not arguing or responding to him... That's what he wants... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I have seen nontargetable hacks. I have seen people cap turrets before the game started. Teleporting, complete stealth capping. maybe some are exploits but I have seen it. All true... The non targetable one is becoming more frequent... Had one today... he was in multiple matches... Only he was untargetable... Everyone else was fine Just to make sure it wasn't me... I did a system restart... Popped into pvp against him... Same thing... Rest of the team said they had the same problem... I believe quite a few had already reported him Love watching the stealth cap... When I've been playing my shadow I have seen them still in stealth doing it... Even took a vid and sent it Bio... That's how I know they don't accept video as proof . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tellenn Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) All true... The non targetable one is becoming more frequent... Had one today... he was in multiple matches... Only he was untargetable... Everyone else was fine Just to make sure it wasn't me... I did a system restart... Popped into pvp against him... Same thing... Rest of the team said they had the same problem... I believe quite a few had already reported him Love watching the stealth cap... When I've been playing my shadow I have seen them still in stealth doing it... Even took a vid and sent it Bio... That's how I know they don't accept video as proof . Your client will have an updated list of targets within draw distance. Thats how the different methods of tab targeting work. While he may have been rendered on your screen. If something was bugged with the list you wouldn't be able to tab him. You can still click target them. This has happened on other games when people have changed their character names recently and the new name isn't getting loaded into target list. All mmos have these lists and its where bots will pull their targets within range information. I worked on emulator projects in the past and knowing what is handled by the server is one of the first things you need to work out through the packet logs. Edited August 29, 2014 by Tellenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 People if you want to know the truth if it is client side or not... Go look on the web... LoL the web. 99% of the people posting stuff on the web can't even write a hello world program in python. I prefer having a actual education and experience, over reading blurbs on a third rate "news" (lol) website. Zoom_VI has nfi... You just have to look at all his posts through most the other threads in swtor... He likes to go on the offensive no matter the argument or how it makes him look... I would suggest not arguing or responding to him... That's what he wants... Why should I care about how it makes me look? I'm not here to play a popularity contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 what's nfi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 what's nfi? Obviously its shorthand for "nifty" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tellenn Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) I have no f**king idea what nfi means Edited August 29, 2014 by Tellenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webzter Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 I've seen a few but some are probably bugs and some are probably exploits. Non-targetable players WZ with comp out healing Mando on the snow side of mid in civil war healing people on the platform at grass (complete with beam going through several walls) non-interruptable players (eg, white hit, interrupt, etc didn't stop planting on voidstar) A particular Smuggler that had some awesome mechanics that many of us noticed... plays normal after 2.9 dropped. There was definitely something going on before then. Most of it seems straight up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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