Stun locked to death

[Raansu]

My only gripe is that Resolve doesn't work properly... When you have full resolve and you keep getting stun locked after you break the stun, then get group smashed... If they fixed the resolve issue this wouldn't be as bad... But when you have full resolve on the fire pit in Hutt Ball and break the stun then are stun locked again and can't even throw the ball, that is an issue

Of course some "stuns" should be a bit less in duration... Not cc's as they break as soon as you take damage and also add to your resolve

Please fix Resolve

 

 

.

 

You either didn't have full resolve or you got rooted. I have NEVER seen a stun work on someone with full resolve. At best it may have been lag, but that seems unlikely.

[JackNader]

Mez should be 4 seconds for PvP and 8 seconds for PvE. The devs made modifications to Force Sweep/Smash to work different in PvP and PvE.

 

If mez is only 4 seconds then sap cap wouldn't be possible anymore. I'm not sure how I would feel about that TBH.

 

My resolve system does have 1 flaw. The way sap works would need to be changed as you can go around continuously sapping people and basically build no resolve on them. You could prevent a cap indefinitely from many foe.

 

The way I would deal with this is :-

 

A) Change the way sap works so you can actually sap multiple targets. These targets all stay in the sleep state until they reach full resolve, take damage or use their breaker.

 

And either :-

 

* Mezzes place a debuff on the target that prevents the affected player from being sapped again until the debuff expires.

 

or

 

* Interacting with an object (capping a turret, node, planting a door, etc) prevents mez from being used.

 

I'm actually leaning towards the later. Sapping a guy while he's capping is pretty silly. This would greatly change warzone mechanics and remove a lot of the deadlocks in maps such as void star. ie. Your team has wiped the entire enemy team off the door but they have 1 stealther who is stalling your cappers until the respawn doors open.

Edited August 7, 2014 by JackNader

[StepTNT]

I play marauder, and trust me: you die in stuns. A lot. Kind of like... every time. You get stunned, you die unless someone helps you. You can break, most classes will stun again. Or escape to return before stunbreak is off cooldown again. Or the next one comes...

Add roots (to a pure melee basically the same as a stun) and slows (well... unless the enemy is backpaddling, it's the same as a stun) ... well you get the point.

 

The whole thing needs:

• Resolve building should be reworked and also consider slows, roots, snares and mezz and fill depending on the ability used and it's effect. Resolve should NOT make you immune to slows, but to stuns and mezz (complete loss of control of your character).
  
• Gettings stunned two times in a row => second stun is ignored when the first one is still in effect.. (opens a mini window that MIGHT be enough for something to be done. Instead of chainstunned/mezzed - Forces players who want to cc to do that carefully!)
  
• Resolve should gradually lower the damage taken by players while stunned or mezzed: 90% resolve => 90% less damage while not in control of your character.
  

 

^ this.

 

I play PVP with a DPS sage and I think I'm a good player, I always do a lot of damage and my k/d ratio is always above 5.

 

What I can't do is surviving a 1 vs 1 against someone which can stun, because of what I underlined in chillshock's post.

 

What happens is that I get stunned and I use my stun breaker, but before being able to make a move I got stunned again and I can only use the Force Barrier, which is not ideal.

[Aluvi]

There are two parts to this issue.

 

#1, EVERY class almost has multiple stuns / ccs. EVERY class only has 1 counter to them - a 1.5 - 2m long CD breaker. EVERYONE hates getting stunned, not so much because they don't get to do damage and are taking damage (although that is a factor), but because it is a 100% loss of control of their character, and LOSS OF CONTROL IS NOT FREAKING FUN. Meanwhile, stunning someone is not nearly as satisfactory as it is unpleasant to be stunned.

 

 

#2, The time to kill in this game is absurdly fast in many cases. 2 or 3 people can kill someone in 3-4 seconds very easily, sometimes less if they time their burst correctly. 4 People can basically global someone.

 

When you combine these two together, with the fact that the stuns are for the most part on a 1m cooldown and every class has them, it makes for a very not fun time. Tanks and healers are there to prevent these stunlocked to death scenarios from happening, and in the highest levels of ranked play, they do just that. The game is based around those levels of play, which in my opinion is a good thing (you should always balance around what the best players can do with the class, rather than the skill level of the majority), but unfortunately, that level of play is not present in most warzones, so you end up having people stunned for 8 seconds straight and killed before they get a chance to retaliate. They probably use their breaker on the first stun, get stunned again, dead, sent back to spawner, by the time they get back, their enemies stuns are back off cooldown, but their breaker is not.

 

Resolve needs to be replaced with diminishing returns, plain and simple. The only reason that I think it hasn't is that the engine already supported the resolve system, so BioWare went with what they have. My idea for dealing with CC? Every time you get stunned, CC'd, or rooted, the next loss of control ability put on you lasts half as long. This stacks to 4x, and then you are simply immune, let's say for 15-20 seconds. So first stun - 4 seconds. Second stun - 2 seconds. 3rd stun - 1 second, 4th stun - .5 seconds. 5th stun - ineffective. Immunity for 15 seconds. Also, all classes should have a low tier ability that protects them to some extent while stunned. At LEAST 30% damage reduction, if not 50%. You want to stun someone - fine, but you are going to do 50% less damage to them while they are stunned. Roots can ignore this, as most classes have SOME abilities that can be used for moderate damage while they are rooted, but stuns should flat out give a 50% DR to anyone stunned. I can already hear the assassins crying.

[Raansu]

Personally overall I prefer the mechanics of resolve over a diminishing returns system. Resolve just needs to be tweaked to function better so its more punishing for players that just throw out stuns with no thought process put into it. I do however feel that a DR system should be used along side of resolve for roots and slows.

 

Roots and slows are a core part of many specs so putting it on the resolve could have serious impacts on those specs, but a DR would be fine, especially in scenarios like where 3 or 4 warriors leap to you and you just get rooted indefinitely. I've had times in huttball where I was rooted so many times that I maybe took 2 or 3 steps in a span of over a minute. That is dumb imo.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Raansu

[Aluvi]

Personally overall I prefer the mechanics of resolve over a diminishing returns system. Resolve just needs to be tweaked to function better so its more punishing for players that just throw out stuns with no thought process put into it. I do however feel that a DR system should be used along side of resolve for roots and slows.

 

Roots and slows are a core part of many specs so putting it on the DR could have serious impacts on those specs, but a DR would be fine, especially in scenarios like where 3 or 4 warriors leap to you and you just get rooted indefinitely. I've had times in huttball where I was rooted so many times that I maybe took 2 or 3 steps in a span of over a minute. That is dumb imo.

 

I agree, and roots are a problem for everyone - not just melee. I play a sorc as well, and being chain leapt to by 4 warriors is as not fun as being chain rooted by 4 sorcs while they melt your face. A DR system on roots would go a long way towards making pvp more fun. Also, If you are resolve capped, you should be immune to roots and slows as well, period.

 

The issue I currently have is that 4 people can global another person when they are stunned. So one person puts out a stun, 4 other people hit that person, dead. Next target, same thing. Without heals and tanks, TTK is far too short. With TTK, people become unkillable. There needs to be a balanced middle ground. The only way to break a team with a good tank + 2 healers is to CC the heals and get off a 3 second burst on the tank (ie, 1-2 carnage maras plus a PT).

[Raansu]

I agree, and roots are a problem for everyone - not just melee. I play a sorc as well, and being chain leapt to by 4 warriors is as not fun as being chain rooted by 4 sorcs while they melt your face. A DR system on roots would go a long way towards making pvp more fun. Also, If you are resolve capped, you should be immune to roots and slows as well, period.

 

The issue I currently have is that 4 people can global another person when they are stunned. So one person puts out a stun, 4 other people hit that person, dead. Next target, same thing. Without heals and tanks, TTK is far too short. With TTK, people become unkillable. There needs to be a balanced middle ground. The only way to break a team with a good tank + 2 healers is to CC the heals and get off a 3 second burst on the tank (ie, 1-2 carnage maras plus a PT).

 

I don't think resolve should play a role in roots and slows. Like I said, a DR system should run alongside it. And as I said in the other thread, I don't see an issue in being globaled in a 4v1. In no situation should a 4v1 be even remotely survivable without support from a healer or a guard.

[Skotal]

#2, The time to kill in this game is absurdly fast in many cases. 2 or 3 people can kill someone in 3-4 seconds very easily, sometimes less if they time their burst correctly. 4 People can basically global someone.

 

i think this is the biggest issue. if defenses are increased across all classes such that stun lock death is impossible with 2 or fewer dps focusing stunning will taken on an entirely new dimension. the only problem this creates is it makes winning in some wzs harder because of respawn timers so some adjustments would be needed there.

[Zoom_VI]

#1, EVERY class almost has multiple stuns / ccs. EVERY class only has 1 counter to them - a 1.5 - 2m long CD breaker.

 

 

Bull, all classes have one hardstun and maybe a mezz. The only exceptions are Assassins, tank Guardians, and Powertechs. Additionally Sorcs have two stun breakers, barrier and the standard.

 

The only way to put in less stuns is too make it so many classes have - zero - stuns.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[jupezz]

Bull, all classes have one hardstun and maybe a mezz.

Eh... what? Enlighten me, since when do Sents/Maras (no matter what spec they are) or DD Guardians offer a hard stun? That'd be news to me.

 

B2t: PvP in SWTOR was never balanced, not even remotely but imo it's getting progressively worse with each little change/tweak they make.

And anyone who seriously thinks that the Resolve system is anywhere near as good as DR needs to stop snorting Dreamdust.

Edited August 9, 2014 by jupezz

[Zoom_VI]

Eh... what? Enlighten me, since when do Sents/Maras (no matter what spec they are) or DD Guardians offer a hard stun? That'd be news to me.

 

B2t: PvP in SWTOR was never balanced, not even remotely but imo it's getting progressively worse with each little change/tweak they make.

 

I would argue that marauders with a hardstun is be overpowered particularly carnage, and that DPS juggernuats have more than enough root and snare control to make up for that lack. You also overlooked choke which *is* a hardstun.

 

Also I challenge you to find another MMO on the market that has better balance than SWTOR.

[jupezz]

You also overlooked choke which *is* a hardstun.

Nope. Choke is a channeled stun. Big difference.

 

Also I challenge you to find another MMO on the market that has better balance than SWTOR.

Are you serious? Like almost all the "popular" ones? GW2, Aion, Wildstar. Even Rift and TERA.

Not saying these games have great balance as there hasn't been really balanced and/or competitive PvP since WoW BC/WotlK but they are still way above SWTOR - Rated PvP is absolutely dead on most servers and has been for quite some time, for good reasons. It's nothing more than a casual pastime now.

Edited August 9, 2014 by jupezz

[TheSupaCoopa]

Duran'del here:

 

Every game has annoying ways to die. Halo's got double-melee, CoD has quickscoping and Overpowered Killstreaks, and TOR has stun-locks.

 

I admit, they are annoying as an angry chihuahua, but they are a very effective strategy. However, I doubt there's a way to fix this without making stuns useless.

[Tellenn]

Also I challenge you to find another MMO on the market that has better balance than SWTOR.

 

Seriously like most of them

[Raansu]

Seriously like most of them

 

Not really.

[Tellenn]

Not really.

 

Really

[Zoom_VI]

Really

 

nope.

[PloGreen]

Nope. Choke is a channeled stun. Big difference.

 

 

Are you serious? Like almost all the "popular" ones? GW2, Aion, Wildstar. Even Rift and TERA.

Not saying these games have great balance as there hasn't been really balanced and/or competitive PvP since WoW BC/WotlK but they are still way above SWTOR - Rated PvP is absolutely dead on most servers and has been for quite some time, for good reasons. It's nothing more than a casual pastime now.

 

All of the games you mention, pvp wise, are not as good as swtor and still suffer for balance issues, wow was dumbed down to hell. Swtor problems are more related to poor systems rather than mechanics. Class balance is not perfect in swtor but pvp is certainly engaging. Otherwise why do all these pvpers that leave for the emperors new clothes keep coming back? It must be hope and it must be that the pvp is fun. I mean if it's so bad why are you here posting on the forums? Why aren't you in those games telling them how great balance is?

 

I mean look at wildstar - there they have good systems in place but the pvp is awful. At least swtor got the mechanics right (more or less). The meta is shifting all of the time, show me an mmo where that is perfect though.

 

Oh and warriors don't need a 4 second stun, they are one of the few classes that get an aoe mezz in melee range and a channeled stun, as well as Dcds (unless u count jug tank but they don't have the dmg).

 

They are not going to overhaul resolve for dr. No point in trying to turn this into wow anymore than it is already. Anyone expecting that prepare to be disappointed.

Edited August 10, 2014 by PloGreen

[PloGreen]

/5char Edited August 10, 2014 by PloGreen

[Raansu]

All of the games you mention, pvp wise, are not as good as swtor and still suffer for balance issues, wow was dumbed down to hell. Swtor problems are more related to poor systems rather than mechanics. Class balance is not perfect in swtor but pvp is certainly engaging. Otherwise why do all these pvpers that leave for the emperors new clothes keep coming back? It must be hope and it must be that the pvp is fun. I mean if it's so bad why are here posting on the forums? Why aren't you in those games telling then how great balance is?

 

I mean look at wildstar - there they have good systems in place but the pvp is awful. At least swtor got the mechanics right (more or less). The meta is shifting all of the time, show me an mmo where that is perfect though.

 

Oh and warriors don't need a 4 second stun, they are one of the few classes that get an aoe mezz in melee range and a channeled stun, as well as Dcds (unless u count jug tank but they don't have the dmg).

 

Ya the last thing we need is a hard stun.....Though I wouldn't complain lol. Stun > gore > ravage "mwahahahahahahha"....... >_>

[Transairion]

My 2 cents is that resolve is as buggy as anything.

 

Even in sub-55 PvP I've had a full resolve bar and made unable to perform any action so stunlocked to death was pretty accurate.

 

 

Really wish CC was just removed entirely makes PvP so unpleasant and I avoid it entirely when I can. The more cc your class has that builds the least resolve = you win.

[Tellenn]

In the early days of warhammer online when everyone referred to it as stunhammer there was the same problems of stunlocking as swtor has. They introduced a immunity system that split up cc abilities into groups. It worked well and is still the best pvp since daoc.

[Raansu]

My 2 cents is that resolve is as buggy as anything.

 

Even in sub-55 PvP I've had a full resolve bar and made unable to perform any action so stunlocked to death was pretty accurate.

 

No, likely what happened is you were stunned which then gave you full whitebar. Which at that point you would use your breaker.....unless its 3v1 or something which then would be a waste and you were going to die anyways so why does it even matter? In reality the enemies wasted CC's in a situation that was completely unnecessary unless they were trying to capture.

 

Really wish CC was just removed entirely makes PvP so unpleasant and I avoid it entirely when I can. The more cc your class has that builds the least resolve = you win.

 

CC is necessary to deal with healers and tank combos and it is also necessary to capture objectives. There is nothing wrong with CC's. Resolve could be tweaked a little, but CC's are a core part of the game. Just because you don't know how to deal with them doesn't make them bad. They are just unpleasant for you because you refuse to learn how to play.

[Ganthen]

The problem with games like this is they have to balance the game for both PVE and PVP, changing one aspect can throw the other out of balance. I've always wondered why they just don't design a game with the PVP separate. When you enter PVP, you would have a pvp spec, with the armor and spells tuned specifically for pvp. All spells, armor, weapons, effects, etc. would be tuned specifically for pvp. The PVP set could not be used in PVE and the PVE set could not be used in PVP. This way, devs could balance the game and not worry about throwing things out of balance.

 

As far as resolve goes, instead of the current system, why not just implement a system where, if you are stunned, you cant be stunned again for x seconds? Say, 5-10 seconds. This way, stun lock is alleviated. Since most stun breakers are on a 1 min cooldown, this wouldn't take stuns out of the game, but rather just eliminate stun locking.

 

Or perhaps, it could be a cumulative resistance to stun. Make it to where you gain a certain amount of immunity to stuns based on the duration of your last stun. For example, lets say you get stunned for 4 seconds, you would then be immune to stuns for 4 seconds after that, but if you get stunned for 2 seconds and then use stun break, you then only get 2 seconds of immunity. I don't know what kind of effect, if any, that would have.

 

Another option would be to change each classes stun break ability to shorten the cooldown based on the frequency of stuns.

 

So, if you get stunned once, normal cooldown.

If you get stunned again within 10 seconds of either the stun ending, or using your break, the cooldown is reduced by 45 seconds.

If you are stunned again within 10 seconds of THAT, then cooldown on stun break is reduced down to a minimum of 5 seconds.

 

I know my numbers may not work, but the theory behind it, at least in my eyes, seems plausible.

 

As a sage, I would like to see them increase healing, or put a few more tools in the box for survivability. PVP has been around for a long time, and healers have become the first target on the field. You'd think that they would have taken this into consideration when they designed those classes with pvp in mind. Many times the other team will bypass all other opponents on the field and rush right to the healer and focus them down. Had a 4v4 match the other day (and im sure it's been more than one, but this one just comes to mind), where the entire team, leapt or ran right past all my teammates and all of them focused me down. My match lasted about 5 seconds. If the goal in pvp is to not have any healers, then they are doing a good job of making that happen.

 

I think people forget that healers wear light armor, usually have fewer hit points, fewer defensive abilities, while at the same time, at least for a sage, all of their heals (except for rejuv and 1 self heal) are on cast timers, or are channeled, while the high damage, high mitigation classes can activate their abilities instantly, on the move. Maybe give healers a small, spammable instant cast heal to at least allow them to heal on the move?

[Ganthen]

edited post Edited August 10, 2014 by Ganthen
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