Stun locked to death

[Raansu]

I bet you don't even understand the difference between pre 1.4 and post 1.4

 

Pre 1.4 was far from perfect but its design was definitely better than how they changed it to post 1.4.

[JackNader]

I don't see the issue Zoom. If you are mezzed and the stun is broken via damage, it isn't "fair" to be given a disproportionate amount of resolve given the fact that the person was only taken out of combat for a split second. It's also not "fair" for any player to be hard stunned for 8 seconds which is possible under the present system. The whole point of the resolve system is to find the common ground. That is, tactical stunning is to be encouraged and also players who are stunned shouldn't feel like they are being stunned to death.

 

In a resolve over time system, the time a player spends stunned or mezzed is locked in and it is much shorter than present. This is because a full resolve bar actually means something. White bar guarantees 4 seconds of immunity. Any stuns present on you the moment you hit full resolve is removed from you. The most common complaint with the present system is that resolve means nothing. 9 times out of 10 you are watching your white bar drain away from the spawn point.

Edited July 31, 2014 by JackNader

[JackNader]

Pre 1.4 was far from perfect but its design was definitely better than how they changed it to post 1.4.

^ This

Pre 1.4 sucked balls. What we have at present is beyond horrible.

[Zoom_VI]

I don't see the issue Zoom. If you are mezzed and the stun is broken via damage, it isn't "fair" to be given a disproportionate amount of resolve given the fact that the person was only taken out of combat for a split second. It's also not "fair" for any player to be hard stunned for 8 seconds which is possible under the present system. The whole point of the resolve system is to find the common ground. That is, tactical stunning is to be encouraged and also players who are stunned shouldn't feel like they are being stunned to death.

 

It is fair because it punishes people who break mezzes. Under your system there is little to no punishment for breaking a mezz. Your system is basically using the same line of thought as the 1.4 change, only you are taking it even further. Which means the two posters above you probably want to strangle you.

 

Oh and mezzes can be cleansed btw.

 

In a resolve over time system, the time a player spends stunned or mezzed is locked in and it is much shorter than present. This is because a full resolve bar actually means something. White bar guarantees 4 seconds of immunity. Any stuns present on you the moment you hit full resolve is removed from you. The most common complaint with the present system is that resolve means nothing. 9 times out of 10 you are watching your white bar drain away from the spawn point.

 

Not quite, under the live system where resolve gain is frontloaded the moment the stun hits you, players can use this to their advantage by immediately breaking the stun that pushed them up to whitebar. Under your system they have to wait out at least part of the stun before they gain whitebar. Which depending on how the stuns are staggered could allow targets to be stunned much longer.

[KEKHAN]

I was in a ranked match where for some reason i was the only player against 4 others, both rounds as soon as they got to me I was hard stunned to death. I even asked for no stuns for the 2nd round so I could at least get 5secs of PvP for my time. People like to win as fast and hard as they can, you can say all you like about if you loose stuns you will loose quality pvp but I think it's the opposite.

[Raansu]

I was in a ranked match where for some reason i was the only player against 4 others, both rounds as soon as they got to me I was hard stunned to death. I even asked for no stuns for the 2nd round so I could at least get 5secs of PvP for my time. People like to win as fast and hard as they can, you can say all you like about if you loose stuns you will loose quality pvp but I think it's the opposite.

 

Dude...you would of died instantly even if you didn't get CC'd. Your argument is completely baseless.

[Zunayson]

...OP would have roflstomped the 2-3 players that stunned him if it were not for stun.

 

Seriously, any move can be an issue if 2-3 players are on you.

 

/facepalm

 

/thread

 

if I could get 5-6 GCDs (7.5 to 9 seconds, aka 8 second stunlock) of rotation on 2-3 people, I can make that 1-2 people pretty easily, assuming they're the average bad and don't do anything.

 

And I can take down 1-2 people pretty easily, assuming they're bad

 

which is a pretty safe assumption tbh

[Zoom_VI]

if I could get 5-6 GCDs (7.5 to 9 seconds, aka 8 second stunlock)

 

8 seconds of stunlock is only 6.5 seconds of free attacking and that's assuming you are applying only one of the stuns, and the other comes from someone else. You need to remember all stuns are on the global.

That is also assuming that the second stun was applied at the very instant that the first dropped off, which is something I have never seen done outside of group ranked, and even in group there is usually some overlap or a split second of being free which is enough to pop a DcD.

 

The only time your scenario works is if both of the stuns are applied by third parties, which means its a 3v1 which means the guy is probably screwed anyway.

[JackNader]

Zoom, the punishment for breaking a mez early from the attackers point of view is his ability is wasted and the player is not taken out of combat. The punishment for breaking the mez early for the player being stunned is he can be re cced immediately and has to wait until a full resolve before he is able to be broken out of it. This is "fair" middle ground.

 

Like I said previously, the "purpose" of the resolve system is to provide a "fair" balance between the player being stunned and the player initiating the stun. The present system is stacked so far in favor of the attacker that its led to people putting stuns into their rotation. The first thing people do is stun. Resolve over time system "forces" players to actually watch their opponents resolve bar and spread out their stuns.

 

You cannot make the claim that it is "only" 6.5 seconds of "free attacks." Every hard stun deals damage. Even if you choose to "ignore" falsely the damage component it's still 6.5 seconds of free attacks per player using a hard stun and then 8 seconds for every player thereafter. In other words, the attacking side already have the advantage of having multiple times your damage and HP. It's not even remotely fair that they also get to beat on you for free for 8 seconds straight. These sort of situations usually result in being stunned to death. It's totally unnecessary, requires absolutely no skill or coordination, and is extremely frustrating for the player being ganked. The deck is entirely stacked in favor of the stun.

 

I shouldn't also have to point out but I will anyway, that a player with 999 resolve can also be hard stunned for 4 seconds or mezed for 8 additional seconds under the present system. This is impossible under a resolve over time system. I would also like to point out that if you are so dead set on there being an additional resolve punishment for mezzes being broken early, it would not be difficult to apply an amount of upfront resolve and the rest of the difference being applied in increments over time.

Edited August 2, 2014 by JackNader

[chillshock]

Also people often forget that you don't even have to be dieing in the stunlock. If you get out alive at 20-30% HP... well... yeah. That's not going to be much of a leftover fight - UNLESS you have been given some powerful tools by the devs that make those last % REALLY count. And there are still a few classes that will face guaranteed loss if attacker opens with a stun.

[Osdorof]

I shouldn't also have to point out but I will anyway, that a player with 999 resolve can also be hard stunned for 4 seconds and mezed for 8 additional seconds under the present system.

 

are. you. really. sure?

[Anzel]

Stun, root, knockback, snare, stun, stun, stun, dead. Yeah, that's so much fun. Wonder why PvP is dead? LOL

[Zoom_VI]

Stun, root, knockback, snare, stun, stun, stun, dead. Yeah, that's so much fun. Wonder why PvP is dead? LOL

 

Its literally impossible to eat that much CC consecutively. Stop bull******** and l2p

[Zoom_VI]

Zoom, the punishment for breaking a mez early from the attackers point of view is his ability is wasted and the player is not taken out of combat. The punishment for breaking the mez early for the player being stunned is he can be re cced immediately and has to wait until a full resolve before he is able to be broken out of it. This is "fair" middle ground.

You go from this to talking about how the system gives the attacker an advantage, yet your middle ground gives the attacker even more advantages.

 

Like I said previously, the "purpose" of the resolve system is to provide a "fair" balance between the player being stunned and the player initiating the stun. The present system is stacked so far in favor of the attacker that its led to people putting stuns into their rotation. The first thing people do is stun. Resolve over time system "forces" players to actually watch their opponents resolve bar and spread out their stuns.

your system is no better. Under the current system if I get mezzed then hardstunned (or vise versa) I can instantly break the latter stun and be whitebarred, under your system I would have to wait out the majority of the second stun.

 

You cannot make the claim that it is "only" 6.5 seconds of "free attacks." Every hard stun deals damage. Even if you choose to "ignore" falsely the damage component it's still 6.5 seconds of free attacks per player using a hard stun and then 8 seconds for every player thereafter. In other words, the attacking side already have the advantage of having multiple times your damage and HP. It's not even remotely fair that they also get to beat on you for free for 8 seconds straight. These sort of situations usually result in being stunned to death. It's totally unnecessary, requires absolutely no skill or coordination, and is extremely frustrating for the player being ganked. The deck is entirely stacked in favor of the stun.

No one dps in the game had the capability of hardstunning for eight seconds, the only DPS spec that can come close to that is a AP powertech and interestingly enough powertech hardstuns do not deal damage.

 

shouldn't also have to point out but I will anyway, that a player with 999 resolve can also be hard stunned for 4 seconds and mezed for 8 additional seconds under the present system. This is impossible under a resolve over time system. I would also like to point out that if you are so dead set on there being an additional resolve punishment for mezzes being broken early, it would not be difficult to apply an amount of upfront resolve and the rest of the difference being applied in increments over time.

 

That straight up false. Once a stun pushes you to whitebar no further stuns can be applied. You only have to waitout the stun that pushed you to whitebar, you cannot have any further stuns applied.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[KEKHAN]

That straight up false. Once a stun pushes you to whitebar no further stuns can be applied. You only have to waitout the stun that pushed you to whitebar, you cannot have any further stuns applied.

 

The problem is that with the increased damage there are alot of classes that cant survive even 4 seconds against 2 enemies. Ops DPS for example, if they dont have defences already up they can only use breaker and are instantly vulnerable. I would be more than happy with 4secs of CC immunity after using breaker.

[Skyhigh]

I would like to extend me sincere apology to all the people on POT5 that have been dirty kicked by me. I am truly sorry for being so cheap. Next time you see my name in a WZ please just announce your forum handle and I shall stand still until you don't kill me.

[Zoom_VI]

The problem is that with the increased damage there are alot of classes that cant survive even 4 seconds against 2 enemies. Ops DPS for example, if they dont have defences already up they can only use breaker and are instantly vulnerable. I would be more than happy with 4secs of CC immunity after using breaker.

 

Then tough cookie. I for one would like to still be able to kill things in competitive ranked....

[JackNader]

Zoom. The only change I didn't mention for resolve over time which I have mentioned in every single thread posted on this is CC breaker mechanics are changed to grant full resolve bar. This would need to be field tested. The cooldown may need to be bumped up or the resolve addition could be removed but still grant 4 seconds of CC immunity.

 

Every single claim you are making to rebut resolve over time is easily rectified. In fact you could have added things yourself. Instead you're too busy crying why things wouldn't work. How many times have you thrown the baby out with the bathwater?

 

What's up with your last two quotes? Did I say a single DPS can hard stun for 8 seconds? No. *edit* Your last quote of me is entirely based on a typo

 

P.s The typo has been fixed.. It should have been fairly obvious what was meant from the context of the passage.

Edited August 2, 2014 by JackNader

[JackNader]

To sum it all up :-

 

Resolve over time system.

 

*Resolve decays at a constant rate ie. 100 resolve per second. Full resolve is reached at 1000.

 

*Hard stuns build resolve at a fixed rate while stunned. ie. 350 resolve per second. (4 seconds to reach full resolve)

 

*Mezzes build resolve at a fixed rate. ie. 200 resolve per second . (10 seconds to reach full resolve.)

(Zoom suggests adding an additional penalty for breaking the mez early. This could be in the form upfront resolve with the remainder delivered in increments while the mez is in effect.)

 

*Upon reaching full resolve, all CC effects presently on you are removed and you become completely immune to all additional CC for 4 seconds.

 

*Your resolve bar will be at 600 after your immunity is up. This adds diminishing returns and forces attacking players to spread out their stuns more.

 

*CC breaker frees you from all effects and grants 4 seconds of stun immunity. It could also grant full or partial resolve however this would need to be thoroughly tested.

Edited August 2, 2014 by JackNader

[Osdorof]

*Resolve decays at a constant rate ie. 100 resolve per second. Full resolve is reached at 1000.

 

*Hard stuns build resolve at a fixed rate while stunned. ie. 350 resolve per second. (4 seconds to reach full resolve)

 

*Mezzes build resolve at a fixed rate. ie. 200 resolve per second . (10 seconds to reach full resolve.)

 

 

Either i completely don't understand your system or there is something wrong with the math here

 

Anyways I stay with my opinion: Resolve System and generally the CC System in Swtor is by far the best CC System i have seen in any MMO I have played.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Osdorof

[JackNader]

Nothing wrong with the math.

 

350 resolve per second - 100 resolve per second constant decay = net 250 resolve per second gained. AKA 4 seconds to reach 1000 resolve.

 

200 resolve per sec - 100 resolve per second constant decay = net 100 resolve per second gained. AKA 10 seconds to reach 1000 resolve.

 

Probably have to set the mez resolve a tad higher so that full resolve is reached at 8 seconds tho.

Edited August 5, 2014 by JackNader

[devilspen]

Anyways I stay with my opinion: Resolve System and generally the CC System in Swtor is by far the best CC System i have seen in any MMO I have played.

 

I'd like to point out the immunity system Warhammer Online used: You get an immunity buff for the respective type of CC right after being affected by it. The two types were Stun/Silence/Mezz and Root/Knockback. The duration of the immunity was based on the duration of the cc

For, this was the best immunity system I have seen so far.

[Icykill_]

My only gripe is that Resolve doesn't work properly... When you have full resolve and you keep getting stun locked after you break the stun, then get group smashed... If they fixed the resolve issue this wouldn't be as bad... But when you have full resolve on the fire pit in Hutt Ball and break the stun then are stun locked again and can't even throw the ball, that is an issue

Of course some "stuns" should be a bit less in duration... Not cc's as they break as soon as you take damage and also add to your resolve

Please fix Resolve

 

 

.

[Osdorof]

My only gripe is that Resolve doesn't work properly... When you have full resolve and you keep getting stun locked after you break the stun, then get group smashed... If they fixed the resolve issue this wouldn't be as bad... But when you have full resolve on the fire pit in Hutt Ball and break the stun then are stun locked again and can't even throw the ball, that is an issue

Of course some "stuns" should be a bit less in duration... Not cc's as they break as soon as you take damage and also add to your resolve

Please fix Resolve

 

 

.

 

This is simply not true. When you were White Barred (full resolve) you can only have been rooted, which still would have allowed you to throw the ball. Resolve System is working as intended and if u say no, u don't understand it. not trying to be offensive here

[Ramtar]

Nothing wrong with the math.

 

350 resolve per second - 100 resolve per second constant decay = net 250 resolve per second gained. AKA 4 seconds to reach 1000 resolve.

 

200 resolve per sec - 100 resolve per second constant decay = net 100 resolve per second gained. AKA 10 seconds to reach 1000 resolve.

 

Probably have to set the mez resolve a tad higher so that full resolve is reached at 8 seconds tho.

 

Mez should be 4 seconds for PvP and 8 seconds for PvE. The devs made modifications to Force Sweep/Smash to work different in PvP and PvE.