The harm PvPers do to PvE

[BuriDogshin]

Those achievements weren't created with the goal of tricking PVE players into PVP to get killed and feed the achievement seekers.

Rally? Then why are they there? And why does so much of Oricon allow this kind of open-world PvP, and only some areas of Oricon (like right in front of the DF entrance) do not? If BW bothered to make some areas one and some the other, couldn't they have made the open-for-PvP regions much smaller, or made the whole planet a sanctuary region?

 

Perhaps I am misinterpreting what "sanctuary" means, but it seems to mean "no PvP."

[Anaesha]

This was supposedly fixed early 2012. The only way to flag, through AoE damage, was to directly attack a flagged player. AoE "splash damage" should not cause someone to become flagged.

 

They also said the fixed the taxi flickering bug on Nar Shaddaa and Curoscant but it still happens.

[Lyshar]

If this game had real RVR style PVP, you would never hear about this happening in PVE zones.

Believe that if you want. There will always be people too cowardly to go for any sort of challenge or fair fight.

 

But it doesnt, it has the $$$$fest called warzone pvp so real pvpers find themselves TRYING to create PVP encounters in the playable world.

I disagree that "real" PvPers would resort to the cowardly acts. It's the trickers & gankers that tend to give all PvPers a bad name. Real PvPers have my respect though.

 

And if you think that qualifies as trying to create PvP you haven't seen what a real attempt looks like. I have seen times where a group of players flagged themselves and went taunting RP style. People that were trying to create PvP by making the other faction pick up arms without forcing them to against their will.

 

I know there are people out there that like the challenge of going through the story and trying to survive gankers, but for many that just isn't fun. So if someone chooses to flag themselves they know it can happen, not arguing that is bad or anything. But if someone doesn't choose to get flagged just leave them alone.

 

Sadly when I'm on a tank or healer I don't get the choice, healing someone that gets flagged flags you, guarding someone that gets flagged flags you too... Even when you're in an unflagged group it's a matter of time before some loser pulls the lame tactic and 75% of your party gets flagged before you know what's going on.

[hadoken]

Rally? Then why are they there?

 

Because achievements don't distinguish between server types. That's all.

 

You CAN accomplish open world PVP ones on PVE servers, with people who want to do so with you. They should not be tricked into doing so.

[Gwena]

This is an old issue, and I sincerely doubt that the ability for an unflagged player to do damage to another player with their AoE's -- thus flagging themselves for PvP -- is intended. As in, "yep, that's just how we wanted it!"

 

I think it should be painfully obvious that an unflagged character on a PvE server that is currently engaged in a PvE fight probably doesn't want to engage in PvP, at least not at that particular moment. And the whole "just don't use your AoE's!" solution just doesn't cut it. My favorite character to do dailies on is my rage Juggernaut, and that would be highly inefficient.

 

I would like to refer to old but relevant thread, in which case the same issue was brought up (check out the yellow text):

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2244994#post2244994

 

Also see patch notes 1.1.4, in which this issue was noted and apparently "fixed":

http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/1.1.4/2222012

 

That said, I don't think that the PvP'ers doing this should be punished or anything. They may be jerks, but I don't think they're breaking any rules since the current game mechanics allow it.

[Kalfear]

This was supposedly fixed early 2012. The only way to flag, through AoE damage, was to directly attack a flagged player. AoE "splash damage" should not cause someone to become flagged.

 

It was fixed as Ive had flagged people run through my AOE damage a few times on Oricon with no ill effects

 

Im fairly sure aoe healing also doesnt flag you if a flagged member of your faction runs through

 

but to be honest when I see flagged players around and I have no interest in pvp at that time, Im careful to not drop AOEs just to be sure.

 

Ive heard of companions healing flagged groupmates causing you to flag but thats clearly not the case here

[BuriDogshin]

This is an old issue ... see patch notes 1.1.4, in which this issue was noted and apparently "fixed": http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/1.1.4/2222012

Using abilities with indirect targeting (such as area of effect abilities) will no longer cause players to be flagged for PvP if a PvP-flagged player from the opposing faction is within the ability's range, and the ability will have no effect on the PvP-flagged player.

I can read that as saying "IF the PvPer is in range AND the AoE has no effect on them, the PvE player will not be flagged." Otherwise, if the intent was to say that PvEer AoE would never affect PvPers, I would have expected a period, and not a comma, before the last clause.

 

What was the nature of the bug they were fixing? Where people being flagged for PvP because they, for example, dropped a Orbital Strike on mobs and a same-faction PvPer moved into the Orbital Strike? Or dropped a heal puddle and an opposite-faction player moved into the AoE? Were people being flagged in sanctuary zones?

Edited July 19, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[Aries_cz]

I can read that as saying "IF the PvPer is in range AND the AoE has no effect on them, the PvE player will not be flagged." Otherwise, if the intent was to say that PvEer AoE would never affect PvPers, I would have expected a period, and not a comma, before the last clause.

 

What was the nature of the bug they were fixing? Where people being flagged for PvP because they, for example, dropped a Orbital Strike on mobs and a same-faction PvPer moved into the Orbital Strike? Or dropped a heal puddle and an opposite-faction player moved into the AoE? Were people being flagged in sanctuary zones?

 

Apparently, people can force flag someone who is casting an AoE. I have no idea how it happens, as i play on PvP shard, where the flag is constant. However, I assume it happens like this

1. PvE Player with no flag is fighting mobs
   
2. PvP noob who trolls PvE server wants easy kill
   
3. PvP noob waits until PvE player casts AoE attack (like Forcequake or Mortar Volley
   
4. PvP noob runs into the AoE attack
   
5. PvE player gets flagged, because the game thinks he attacked PvP noob
   
6. PvE player gets massacred by PvP noob in PvP gear
   

 

Fix would seem to be in abilities not doing any damage or heals to flagged people (of both sides), until the caster is flagged as well.

[wiredgutter]

I heard some players bolted from my server (Bastion) to go play on Harbinger. Maybe they miss our server lol!

 

I refuse to ever play on a PvE server. The tension created during open world pvp is more exciting than anything else in the game, except possibly a close ranked match.

 

Still, its poor form to force other players like this.

[Darth_Wicked]

Probably mentioned already but it happens fairly frequently to me, during the Gree Event.

 

Lost count of how many times PvP players get in range of AoE abilities, especially while stealthed, only to get me PvP flagged as well, when I try to avoid it like the plague.

 

In other words, be prepared.

[Fantazm]

Although it would seem to make sense to stop this by making it impossible for a non-flagged player to affect a flagged player in any way at all (can't damange them, can't heal them, can't rez them, can't buff them etc) they've had people moan about this for well over a year now (maybe 2) and haven't bothered doing much about it.

 

So don't hold your breath.

[Kryand]

Last I checked, they had fixed the issue of AoEs causing flags if you're not already flagged. I remember testing it to be sure (though quite a while ago), and I'm also pretty sure I've AoE'd near flagged enemies more recently without getting flagged myself. So unless they re-broke it very recently...

[KiranK]

Open world PvP sucks. It's only morons who want to kill low level players. I don't know why Bioware refuses to fix it. It's such a simple fix and it would be healthy for the game. There's no reason you should be able to force PvP onto a player on a PvE server. That is just a bad design.

[Kryand]

Just tested it again with all of my Gunslinger AoEs, with a flagged enemy in the AoE, both in and out of combat, and I was never flagged. Not until I attacked him directly.

 

Odds are you attacked the flagged enemy directly and just don't know it. Probably an accidental auto-target once all nearby enemies were dead.

[theSCARAYone]

Your argument is invalid because you can't get hit by someones AoE unless both of you are flagged.

[Tsillah]

Last I checked, they had fixed the issue of AoEs causing flags if you're not already flagged. I remember testing it to be sure (though quite a while ago), and I'm also pretty sure I've AoE'd near flagged enemies more recently without getting flagged myself. So unless they re-broke it very recently...

 

There are still tricks around it still. Imagine you are attacking a group of mobs. And the other guy who is pvp flagged stands right in the middle of them. Now you don't always use aoe so you might tab to the next target but instead of a mob you target him and accidentally hit him thereby flagging yourself in the process. You can avoid it in most cases but most people do their dailies on auto-pilot and then there it is. If you then want to get out of it you have to stay in a safe zone for like 5 mins. Just annoying.

 

Point is though, that people actually go as far as to try to trick people into pvp. It's just an attitude problem that has nothing to do with how the system works or doesn't work. It's your own choice, trying to trick poorly geared people into pvp so you can thrash them with 3 hits is just poor sportmanship at best. Don't blame the system for your own choices. That's just a lame excuse.

 

I'll be honest, I haven't been in this situation myself more than once or twice and hey it happens, but I do understand that people can get upset over it and it is just poor character to try and do this. PvP servers are for that sort of thing, but I guess that's too scary.

[ivanhedgehog]

It was fixed as Ive had flagged people run through my AOE damage a few times on Oricon with no ill effects

 

Im fairly sure aoe healing also doesnt flag you if a flagged member of your faction runs through

 

but to be honest when I see flagged players around and I have no interest in pvp at that time, Im careful to not drop AOEs just to be sure.

 

Ive heard of companions healing flagged groupmates causing you to flag but thats clearly not the case here

 

I was part of a group that had it done to them on voss 2 weeks ago. we were fighting NM pilgrim at the time. a stealthed shadow tank did it.. so no, it is not fixed.

[LordArtemis]

Wait...I thought they put an end to this? I haven't seen this in a while...is this still happening?

[Kingsbount]

There's a way to fix the whole "flag" system.

I was playing Perfect World some time ago (few years).

Some of you may know that PW have open world PVP system.

As far as i know, on PW International servers there was a "magic button", that fully protects you from ANY interactions with flagged players. Which include healing, buffs, damage. And i mean FULL protection. Even if you will stand in a middle of massive PVP battle - no one will be able to hurt you. So as you cannot assist any side of PVP'ers.

You might ask - and how this thing works in instances? Answer is simple as hell: if you want to group with others and recieve healing or heal others - refrain from PVP activity. Or wait till flag is come off.

 

I think this kind of system is perfect for PVE servers.

[Zoom_VI]

I'm glad the OP isn't letting hasty generalizations and stereotyping hold him down.

[TheBBP]

Then BioWare should remove the open-world PvP achievements from the PvE servers, rather than encouraging people to do actionable things. But at present, they have not.

 

How does wanting an achievement mean that you rate to exploit the system and get unsuspecting PVEers flagged so that you can gank them?

[LanceCorporalDan]

Open world PvP sucks. It's only morons who want to kill low level players. I don't know why Bioware refuses to fix it. It's such a simple fix and it would be healthy for the game. There's no reason you should be able to force PvP onto a player on a PvE server. That is just a bad design.

 

I wouldn't make such sweeping generalizations. My guild and I enjoy WPvP due to the ever changing battles, landscape, and tactics needed to win agaisnt 2 v 1 odds... or holding out agaisnt 3 v 1 when compared to a handful of repetitive 8v8 wz's. We also have a very strict policy regarding the ganking of lower levels. If they jump into a heated battle against us then all is fair (though why waste time worrying about them) but other than that it's hands off.

 

I still agree that forcing PvP on a player in this regard is wrong. But viewing a few bad apples as representative of the entire batch is also wrong.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Just tested it again with all of my Gunslinger AoEs, with a flagged enemy in the AoE, both in and out of combat, and I was never flagged. Not until I attacked him directly.

 

Odds are you attacked the flagged enemy directly and just don't know it. Probably an accidental auto-target once all nearby enemies were dead.

 

This right here. The only way for someone to get flagged with an AOE attack is if the flagged person is the target. If that person is just walking through it, it will not flag you.

[LordArtemis]

This right here. The only way for someone to get flagged with an AOE attack is if the flagged person is the target. If that person is just walking through it, it will not flag you.

 

Thats what I thought. I actually had a flagged player attempt to flag me in this way when I was doing a Black Hole daily, and after numerous attempts and failures, he simply said "good luck" and moved on.

[HeatRacer]

There are still tricks around it still. Imagine you are attacking a group of mobs. And the other guy who is pvp flagged stands right in the middle of them. Now you don't always use aoe so you might tab to the next target but instead of a mob you target him and accidentally hit him thereby flagging yourself in the process. You can avoid it in most cases but most people do their dailies on auto-pilot and then there it is. If you then want to get out of it you have to stay in a safe zone for like 5 mins. Just annoying.

 

It's not really a "trick". It's people not paying attention to who they're aiming a (virtual) weapon at. Never a good idea in either the virtual or real world.

 

Think of it this way: it's also a good lesson for PVE (raids), since auto/tab-targeting and hitting the wrong target can result in a wipe (ie hitting the shield generators on the tanks in EC).

Edited July 20, 2014 by HeatRacer