The harm PvPers do to PvE

[Kantaso]

Am I lazy because I choose to play on a PVE= Player versus Environment, no where in the PVE concept I see a red warning saying that you may be intentionally or accidentally flagged for PVP= Player versus Player, where show me where in the PVE server says it is an Open World PVP? Edited July 24, 2014 by Kantaso

[BuriDogshin]

Omg...drop the drama...they aren't "exploiting", they're taking advantage of lazy people.

Oh please, quit insulting people who accidentally get tagged. It's simply not true. I know someone who was right-clicking an objective when a stealthed opposite-faction PvPer appeared between her and the objective. Because slot 1 of quickbar 1 has an attack, she got tagged. Not a big deal, no tears were shed and no repair bills paid, but it was not because she was lazy: just bad luck on the timing and a greifer who knew the trick for getting questers, scavengers and bioanalyzers tagged.

 

That said: It's a minor annoyance. It's also the code working as intended, not bad code. It is FAR less annoying than back when AoE could get you tagged, as was true the first time I did the Gree event.

 

Fixing it is not simple. A "do not flag me" option is complex, because it means you cannot, for example, be allowed to heal same-faction PvP players, even ones in your group, if you have it set. That's a lot of code that needs to be touched, which means a lot of chances to introduce new bugs and exploits.

 

I'd rather the devs spent their time bringing us new content and features rather than "fixing" this.

Edited July 24, 2014 by BuriDogshin

[mikebevo]

I want elevator doors and guard railes, still too lazy to pay attention where I'm going.

 

There is a on off switch for being flagged. You damage or heal a flagged player, you turn it on. There is nothing that says you have to be flagged now outside of certain areas, so if you don't want to be flagged don't turn on your flag. Waste the greifers time, I actually find them following me around entertaining for some reason.

[undiess]

Server: Harbinger West Coast PvE

Planet: Oricon

PvPers in both factions are deliberately flagging PvP then running into a PvE'ers AOE and flagging them for PvP so to prevent them from completing ANY PvE Quest or Daily. I am on a PvE Server because I do not wish to PvP. If I wished to PvP I would have rolled a Character on a PvP Server. PvPers are making me want to cancel my account, and my guild members are thinking of doing the same thing. Please BioWare FIX IT NOW.

 

Oricon has an achievement for killing 1500 of the opposing faction to gain a title "Scare Bear".

 

That is all I need to state on what Bioware's stance is; they give people an achievement for killing, so be prepared to get killed however people can get you killed.

Edited July 24, 2014 by undiess

[TUXs]

Am I lazy because I choose to play on a PVE= Player versus Environment, no where in the PVE concept I see a red warning saying that you may be intentionally or accidentally flagged for PVP= Player versus Player, where show me where in the PVE server says it is an Open World PVP?

No, you're lazy for not paying attention to what your target is/will be. There can be PvP anywhere on any server type...been that way since beta. PvE servers are not PvP-less.

[Kantaso]

No, you're lazy for not paying attention to what your target is/will be. There can be PvP anywhere on any server type...been that way since beta. PvE servers are not PvP-less.

 

So according with your intelligen t response can I roll a charac ter on a PVP server and expect never to be ganked because PVP servers are not PVE-less?

[TUXs]

So according with your intelligen t response can I roll a charac ter on a PVP server and expect never to be ganked because PVP servers are not PVE-less?

Of course not, why would you think that? Expect 99% exactly what you have on your PvE server.

[Kalfear]

Oh

 

Fixing it is not simple. A "do not flag me" option is complex, because it means you cannot, for example, be allowed to heal same-faction PvP players, even ones in your group, if you have it set. That's a lot of code that needs to be touched, which means a lot of chances to introduce new bugs and exploits.

 

 

LOL it is simple and it is bad code, no matter what you claim to opposite

 

Other games have successfully put in "must turn on flag manually" code in their games.

They dont suffer "accidental" flagging like SW:TOR does.

 

It is THAT simple

 

Flag off, you can not interact positively or negatively with flagged players

That means no accidental attacks and no healing friendly flagged players

unless you physically turn on the PVP flag yourself

 

Problem solved and pretty damn simple and easy

 

But I get feeling your one of the people running into groups of non flagged players EXPLOITING the bad code to flag them.

 

As I said before, exactly how bad does one have to be at PVP that they are forced to exploit code to flag PVEers in a setting the PVEers already at a disadvantage in.

 

Personally if I ever found myself sucking that bad at my chosen play style I'd just quit the game for good.

But then again, those types probably download the latest game cheats for offline games to because...

 

yes they do suck that bad at gaming.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Kalfear

[TUXs]

Flag off, you can not interact positively or negatively with flagged players

That means no accidental attacks and no healing friendly flagged players

unless you physically turn on the PVP flag yourself

 

Problem solved and pretty damn simple and easy

There would also need to be a timer associated with flagging it on/off, but I like this suggestion.

[Code_Airwolf]

Question - Can you trigger this by buffing someone? I tend to try to buff (e.g. Unnatural Might) other random players as we pass by each other running to and from missions, but I often wondered if that could initiate a PVP or something.

[hadoken]

Question - Can you trigger this by buffing someone? I tend to try to buff (e.g. Unnatural Might) other random players as we pass by each other running to and from missions, but I often wondered if that could initiate a PVP or something.

 

I have not noticed this happen.

 

Clarification: class buffs.

 

If you're talking about healing or some other effect, that should flag you.

Edited July 24, 2014 by hadoken

[Aries_cz]

There would also need to be a timer associated with flagging it on/off, but I like this suggestion.

 

Well, the timer already exists (5 minutes in "allied area", I believe?). So all that is needed is to force non-flagged players to see enemy players as if they were inside Sanctuary zone (yellow health bars).

[TUXs]

Well, the timer already exists (5 minutes in "allied area", I believe?). So all that is needed is to force non-flagged players to see enemy players as if they were inside Sanctuary zone (yellow health bars).

That would work!

[Code_Airwolf]

I have not noticed this happen.

 

Clarification: class buffs.

 

If you're talking about healing or some other effect, that should flag you.

 

 

That's good to know. I've done this on my Bounty Hunter before seeing a random player about to die getting into something a little bit over their head, and help get them through it with some heals.

[mikebevo]

Question - Can you trigger this by buffing someone? I tend to try to buff (e.g. Unnatural Might) other random players as we pass by each other running to and from missions, but I often wondered if that could initiate a PVP or something.

At one time you could buff a flagged play and become flagged. This was fixed the last time I checked and now you don't become flagged.

 

I would say besides a timer to turn on Flag, not just off. I would also want where you couldn't heal a NPC unless you were flagged and keep auto flag in certain areas.

 

What I worry about with a hard switch is openning up a whole new can of worms. The ones I can think of would be addressed with those changes, but I am pretty sure there are many more it would open up. Griefer is going to grief.

[ivanhedgehog]

At one time you could buff a flagged play and become flagged. This was fixed the last time I checked and now you don't become flagged.

 

I would say besides a timer to turn on Flag, not just off. I would also want where you couldn't heal a NPC unless you were flagged and keep auto flag in certain areas.

 

What I worry about with a hard switch is openning up a whole new can of worms. The ones I can think of would be addressed with those changes, but I am pretty sure there are many more it would open up. Griefer is going to grief.

 

Theywould have to do something for the last to next boss in DP. there is a heal test where the healers have to keep an npc alive.

[mikebevo]

Theywould have to do something for the last to next boss in DP. there is a heal test where the healers have to keep an npc alive.

Good call, but that is exactly what I am talking about, nothing is a simple fix in a MMO. A change here is likely to break something over there and even could open up worse exploits. Edited July 24, 2014 by mikebevo

[DarthOvertone]

I imagine it's nearly as annoying the PVE players in warzones, so utterly out of their depth it's tragic. PVE players doing warzones are making me want to cancel my account.

 

Please BW, stop them from doing PVP.

 

No kidding. haha

[Tim-ONeil]

the respnse could be pve'ers entering wz's and intentionally losing them. would you like that? 10 wz's for every time a pve'er is auto flagged seems about right

 

I find this to be funny, believe me if you aren't a PVP regular it doesn't matter how hard you try just by being there you will be contributing to a loss. Saying you are trying to lose is redundant.

[Zoom_VI]

the respnse could be pve'ers entering wz's and intentionally losing them. would you like that? 10 wz's for every time a pve'er is auto flagged seems about right

 

Yes the best way to get back at greifers is to go greif unrelated parties.....

[LordArtemis]

There is no need for revenge IMO.

 

There is a need to understand that forcing PVP on players that do not enjoy PVP is a self defeating activity. What you do, by doing this IMO, is further alienate PVE players from PVP.

 

If any PVE player has any curiosity about PVP, the sure way to kill it is to exploit this to force a flag. I'm willing to bet it turns away quite a few potential players from the game activity.

 

That said, the fact this game lacks any meaningful world PVP is part of the problem IMO. No raiding factional cities, no bonuses for dueling, no World PVP rankings. No wonder PVP players are bored and look to find some action.

 

The removal of the ability to force a flag needs to happen IMO, but at the same time PVP needs to be fleshed out better in this game. Here would be my suggestions.....

 

Nightmare PVP - For GSF, WZs and the like. No gear, only skill. All players are boosted or nerfed to equal levels, everything is about the skill with your ability set. Death comes quick, respawn is also quick. No pots, no buffs....just carnage.

 

World PVP with ranks - Dueling and raiding factional cities both count toward ranking against opposing players. PVP servers would allow certain cities to be raided and defended. Quest givers would be immune to damage and would not participate in the fighting.

[well]

There is no need for revenge IMO.

 

There is a need to understand that forcing PVP on players that do not enjoy PVP is a self defeating activity. What you do, by doing this IMO, is further alienate PVE players from PVP.

 

If any PVE player has any curiosity about PVP, the sure way to kill it is to exploit this to force a flag. I'm willing to bet it turns away quite a few potential players from the game activity.

 

That said, the fact this game lacks any meaningful world PVP is part of the problem IMO. No raiding factional cities, no bonuses for dueling, no World PVP rankings. No wonder PVP players are bored and look to find some action.

 

The removal of the ability to force a flag needs to happen IMO, but at the same time PVP needs to be fleshed out better in this game. Here would be my suggestions.....

 

Nightmare PVP - For GSF, WZs and the like. No gear, only skill. All players are boosted or nerfed to equal levels, everything is about the skill with your ability set. Death comes quick, respawn is also quick. No pots, no buffs....just carnage.

 

World PVP with ranks - Dueling and raiding factional cities both count toward ranking against opposing players. PVP servers would allow certain cities to be raided and defended. Quest givers would be immune to damage and would not participate in the fighting.

 

LOL People would go ballistic over something like that. I would love to be listening to general chat when people found out. With a bag of popcorn.

[Ayradyss]

The bottom line, IMO, is that EA/BioWare should have addressed this ages ago by fixing their flagging system so that people are -only- flagged by specifically turning on their own flag manually. (And, it follows that no one without a flag would be able to affect, for either good or ill, anyone with a flag, and vice-versa.) That's at the core of every truly -consensual- PvP system. Every other game I've played (and I've played a lot of them) has done this. It's not rocket science.

 

Why they refuse to do so is the big mystery, IMO.

 

Those who keep claiming it's some kind of intricate work that would change metric tons of code are talking it up for their own ulterior motives, I expect. (Which is my opinion, not a fact.) Any amateur programmer, let alone a professional, would be used to coding in modules and subroutines. You don't write a new block of code every time you need to check for valid targets in another encounter. If they are, then they need way more help than I believe they do.

[Kulyok]

I'm thinking we should keep bumping the issue with the AoE bug until it reaches 100 pages, or something. I am all for PvP-ing, but I do want to use my AoEs and such without getting flagged.

[slafko]

LOL People would go ballistic over something like that. I would love to be listening to general chat when people found out. With a bag of popcorn.

TBH, "everyone in equal gear" is the only way true PvP actually has meaning.