Bad Business Model or Ok?

[AshenK]

You have no idea what you are talking about. I highly suggest you stop posting as your opinions are simply baseless statements that you can't possibly back up. Yet for the umpteenth time will you STOP addressing your post with WE there is no WE in this. Stop speaking for me or for any one else for that matter as you most certainly do not represent anyone but yourself/

 

You also do not know what hardcore is and your definition is not universally accepted as some people like hardcore pvp or hardcore pve. Also please stop with the whole 2 million subs leaving thing. That does NOT matter right now, you want to know why? Because the devs have attempted to learn from their mistakes and the game is doing much better.

 

Oh and you also have no idea what p2w is because if you did you would realize that p2w means buying a means to have an advantage over others. What the this game is a fluff shop nothing more. One final thing, SWG is dead let it go and stop trying to change this game into what YOU want as it will never be that.

yes there is a we.

 

go to mmorpg.com go to massively go to any mmo site and see for yourself we the mmo community wanted a truely immersive star wars mmo like swg was back in the pre-cu. what we got was this. better? no i don't see this game doing better i see servers bleeding players, i see people going nuts for something truely new like WildStar. I see pvper's leaving for WildStar as WS offers some of the best pvp ever. I see raiders leaving for WS as the raids are hard and it takes skill and time to get into them. role players are leaving tor as WS offers them so much more.

 

and it is p2w every game that has a cash shop in it is p2w. all of those items should be gotten in game via playing the game. not something you spend irl money for.

[Sangrar]

and it is p2w every game that has a cash shop in it is p2w. all of those items should be gotten in game via playing the game. not something you spend irl money for.

 

in what world is getting male perv gear winning!?

[MiaRB]

What kind of defensive answer is that? At no point have I manifested any interest in WS. I'm just telling it how I see it and if you had visited some of the server offsite forums, where people actually are allowed to discuss moves to WS, you would have known what I was talking about. The TRE offsite currently has a new 17 page thread filled with players who are reporting from the mess that is the WS launch. Those players could have played swtor instead but chose not to.

 

But hey, I guess it's better to pretend that it never happened and go down the lane of late servers transfers and 1,5M lost subs again. If you want this game to succeed ift should be in your interest that the devs try to keep as many subs as they possibly can and that's not going to happen when they sit idle by for every major launch.

 

Also, F2P is really screwing with the numbers. Let's pretend that we have the same server populations now as we did one year ago - which isnt true but let's pretend -, do you honestly think that the sub to F2P ratio is the same? We will reach a point where even knights as yourself will realize that there's no one to run raids with because everyone online is F2P.

 

the sky is falling, the sky is falling. hear the same thing with every new MMO launch in every MMO that I have played. but I have yet to see one shutdown or fall apart because a new flavor of the month launched. wasn't this game supposed to have shutdown a year ago? please, just play the game if you enjoy it, if you don't play one that you do enjoy.

 

oh and the best thing about a new MMO launching is, we get a break from the "realist" forum warriors for a few months.

[MiaRB]

yes there is a we.

 

go to mmorpg.com go to massively go to any mmo site and see for yourself we the mmo community wanted a truely immersive star wars mmo like swg was back in the pre-cu. what we got was this. better? no i don't see this game doing better i see servers bleeding players, i see people going nuts for something truely new like WildStar. I see pvper's leaving for WildStar as WS offers some of the best pvp ever. I see raiders leaving for WS as the raids are hard and it takes skill and time to get into them. role players are leaving tor as WS offers them so much more.

 

and it is p2w every game that has a cash shop in it is p2w. all of those items should be gotten in game via playing the game. not something you spend irl money for.

 

wildstar is so much fun, that you are here posting your same old nonsense instead of playing your new fav MMO.

[Drayvis]

no.

 

swg was so strong

 

...that it was a sinking ship from day 1, made worse by radical system redesigns. It had a VERY limited appeal. Too limited to sustain an MMO. And not because of the SW part. The gameplay failed for most gamers.

[Drayvis]

and it is p2w every game that has a cash shop in it is p2w. all of those items should be gotten in game via playing the game. not something you spend irl money for.

 

"P2W" doesn't mean that there are items you can only get by paying real money. It means that those items are so powerful that someone who doesn't spend real money on them has no real hope of winning against someone who does. To say this is the case with SWTOR is absolutely ludicrous. The benefit of CC gear barely rates above "cosmetic".

[theUndead]

yes there is a we.

 

go to mmorpg.com go to massively go to any mmo site and see for yourself we the mmo community wanted a truely immersive star wars mmo like swg was back in the pre-cu. what we got was this. better? no i don't see this game doing better i see servers bleeding players, i see people going nuts for something truely new like WildStar. I see pvper's leaving for WildStar as WS offers some of the best pvp ever. I see raiders leaving for WS as the raids are hard and it takes skill and time to get into them. role players are leaving tor as WS offers them so much more.

 

and it is p2w every game that has a cash shop in it is p2w. all of those items should be gotten in game via playing the game. not something you spend irl money for.

 

Listen and get this through your thick skull, I don't care what those sites think, I really don't. They do not represent a majority and neither do you. Oh for crying out loud drop the fanatical SWG diatribe it is really getting old. You do NOT know what p2w means and in my opinion Wildstar is nothing special and all. Do you understand me now? Let me say it again. I do not CARE about WIldstar.

 

Who the hell do you think you are to tell me or anyone else how they spend their money? You are not some authority here and no power whatsoever to decide what people can and can't do. The cash shop, just by the way is fluff do you understand? Fluff, meaning that they give no advantage at all.

 

I get you don't like shop and prefer a way of getting things in game that is fine. But don't tell people what they can an can't spend money on. And for the last time, stop saying we. You represent yourself and you alone.

[theUndead]

...that it was a sinking ship from day 1, made worse by radical system redesigns. It had a VERY limited appeal. Too limited to sustain an MMO. And not because of the SW part. The gameplay failed for most gamers.

 

This is a bit off topic, but perhaps you should take a look at a SWG love thread in the Community section. It is filled with SWG fans praising their dear lost game while bashing SWTOR. I already made a response there but perhaps more people should as well.

[Drayvis]

This is a bit off topic, but perhaps you should take a look at a SWG love thread in the Community section. It is filled with SWG fans praising their dear lost game while bashing SWTOR. I already made a response there but perhaps more people should as well.

 

Oh, I'm not saying it didn't have its dedicated die-hard fans. Every game has those. Even Horizons had them. I'm just saying that it was too small of a niche to sustain the MMO financially.

[theUndead]

Oh, I'm not saying it didn't have its dedicated die-hard fans. Every game has those. Even Horizons had them. I'm just saying that it was too small of a niche to sustain the MMO financially.

 

I agree but the people in that thread are screaming at anyone who disagrees. I was just wondering if you wanted to add your opinion to it.

[Drayvis]

I agree but the people in that thread are screaming at anyone who disagrees. I was just wondering if you wanted to add your opinion to it.

 

Nah, won't accomplish anything. Other people like what they like. I have no business telling them they're wrong for liking it.

[Volthorne]

"P2W" doesn't mean that there are items you can only get by paying real money. It means that those items are so powerful that someone who doesn't spend real money on them has no real hope of winning against someone who does. To say this is the case with SWTOR is absolutely ludicrous. The benefit of CC gear barely rates above "cosmetic".

Technically "P2W" is any gear purchasable by cash-only means that provides any numerical advantage in combat when compared to what can be obtained for "free" (pay-walls included). Even one or two points higher would *technically* be P2W, though typically it wouldn't be viewed as such until those one or two points start stacking up into 40, 50, 80 points across all gear, which is a visibly significant advantage (*cough cough*ARTIFACTS*cough*).

[AshlaBoga]

As I've stated before - make F2P too free and no one would bother subbing.

 

At the same time I think if they raised the Preferred requirement (currently $5 USD). Then they could afford to remove some preferred limits. I think that $240 seems fair for preferred (original price of game + 1 year sub). If they made it so if you had paid $240 for game - via RotHC, Deluxe, Subscription or CC - then they could remove more of the limits and people wouldn't simply unsub. I've spent over $370 on SWTOR (game 60, RotHC 10, 2 years 300) and think that for that amount I might warrant being able to send 5 companions on missions and a credit cap of 500,000 instead of 350,000.

Edited June 2, 2014 by AshlaBoga

[robertthebard]

Technically "P2W" is any gear purchasable by cash-only means that provides any numerical advantage in combat when compared to what can be obtained for "free" (pay-walls included). Even one or two points higher would *technically* be P2W, though typically it wouldn't be viewed as such until those one or two points start stacking up into 40, 50, 80 points across all gear, which is a visibly significant advantage (*cough cough*ARTIFACTS*cough*).

 

Let's evaluate this condition then: So I got the Eradicator's Set way back when, and rolled a new Inquisitor to use it on. Every piece of green gear I dropped on Korriban had better stats. What, exactly, did I win? I got the look I wanted for that toon right out of the gate, and really, that's it. So it's purely cosmetic. People do love to point out the "evils of the cash shop", and in some games, I mentioned one such game earlier in this very thread, they are correct. You very definitely can P2W there. Here? It's more "SWTOR went F2P in a year, so it's fail, and oh, btw, P2W CS", even though nothing really supports the claim. You can unlock some +41 crystals for lvl 10, but really, if a player having a crystal is making somebody else lose, I'd say the loser was doing something wrong.

[ghoul_drool]

Let's evaluate this condition then: So I got the Eradicator's Set way back when, and rolled a new Inquisitor to use it on. Every piece of green gear I dropped on Korriban had better stats. What, exactly, did I win? I got the look I wanted for that toon right out of the gate, and really, that's it. So it's purely cosmetic. People do love to point out the "evils of the cash shop", and in some games, I mentioned one such game earlier in this very thread, they are correct. You very definitely can P2W there. Here? It's more "SWTOR went F2P in a year, so it's fail, and oh, btw, P2W CS", even though nothing really supports the claim. You can unlock some +41 crystals for lvl 10, but really, if a player having a crystal is making somebody else lose, I'd say the loser was doing something wrong.

 

To elaborate on the crystals, in order to be P2W, Bioware would have to release +51 Hawkeye crystals, as opposed to the +41 Hawkeyes we have in game now, and put them ONLY in the cartel packs. No other way to get them as mob loot or craft them. Then, and only then, would the cartel market be Pay to Win.

 

As it is, it's not. Not even by a long shot.

[TravelersWay]

To elaborate on the crystals, in order to be P2W, Bioware would have to release +51 Hawkeye crystals, as opposed to the +41 Hawkeyes we have in game now, and put them ONLY in the cartel packs. No other way to get them as mob loot or craft them. Then, and only then, would the cartel market be Pay to Win.

 

As it is, it's not. Not even by a long shot.

 

You sir, are correct. People love to throw around the "P2W" term, but most don't actually really know what it means. There are very, very few true P2W games released in the west. If anyone wants to know what true pay to win is (and from where the term sort of has its origins), they need to read this article about ZT Online:

 

http://www.danwei.org/electronic_games/gambling_your_life_away_in_zt.php

But hey, I guess it's better to pretend that it never happened and go down the lane of late servers transfers and 1,5M lost subs again. If you want this game to succeed ift should be in your interest that the devs try to keep as many subs as they possibly can and that's not going to happen when they sit idle by for every major launch.

 

Well, you see, that shows a misunderstanding of the business that is gaming and the business that is MMOs. It is actually bad business to base your development cycle off of someone else's development cycle. Blizzard likes to time announcements and PR around such releases, but that is a different animal than an actual development cycle.

 

Spend a few years analyzing the gaming business and industry, and a few more studying the psychology of gaming and you'll understand that, ultimately, there is much ado about nothing here, or in any other game where this exact same forum post is repeated again, and again, and again, for years on end - only the game's name is different.

 

yes there is a we.

 

go to mmorpg.com go to massively go to any mmo site and see for yourself we the mmo community wanted a truely immersive star wars mmo like swg was back in the pre-cu. what we got was this. better? no i don't see this game doing better i see servers bleeding players, i see people going nuts for something truely new like WildStar. I see pvper's leaving for WildStar as WS offers some of the best pvp ever. I see raiders leaving for WS as the raids are hard and it takes skill and time to get into them. role players are leaving tor as WS offers them so much more.

 

and it is p2w every game that has a cash shop in it is p2w. all of those items should be gotten in game via playing the game. not something you spend irl money for.

 

Yes, you are correct. There is a "we." There is a "We" for every side of every opinion and feeling. However, in the end, it appears that your "we" is not quite as large as the "We" of the people playing and enjoying the game. SWG was dying for years. The false belief that the impending release of SWTOR had anything to do with SWG's cancellation is just that. In the end, the numbers support that fact that the style of this game is preferred by the majority of gamers over the style of SWG (and any sandbox game), and the very, very small community of the various SWG emus out there.

Edited June 2, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Arkerus]

You sir, are correct. People love to throw around the "P2W" term, but most don't actually really know what it means. There are very, very few true P2W games released in the west. If anyone wants to know what true pay to win is (and from where the term sort of has its origins), they need to read this article about ZT Online:

 

http://www.danwei.org/electronic_games/gambling_your_life_away_in_zt.php

 

 

Well, you see, that shows a misunderstanding of the business that is gaming and the business that is MMOs. It is actually bad business to base your development cycle off of someone else's development cycle. Blizzard likes to time announcements and PR around such releases, but that is a different animal than an actual development cycle.

 

Spend a few years analyzing the gaming business and industry, and a few more studying the psychology of gaming and you'll understand that, ultimately, there is much ado about nothing here, or in any other game where this exact same forum post is repeated again, and again, and again, for years on end - only the game's name is different.

 

 

 

Yes, you are correct. There is a "we." There is a "We" for every side of every opinion and feeling. However, in the end, it appears that your "we" is not quite as large as the "We" of the people playing and enjoying the game. SWG was dying for years. The false belief that the impending release of SWTOR had anything to do with SWG's cancellation is just that. In the end, the numbers support that fact that the style of this game is preferred by the majority of gamers over the style of SWG (and any sandbox game), and the very, very small community of the various SWG emus out there.

 

SWG hardcore fans don't like facts. The game was dead halfway through its lifespan. It was a really neat game with some great ideas but rose colored glasses have convinced a vocal minority of the MMO community that it was perfect in every way. It was largely buggy, unsupported, confusing, and convoluted. Dancing in cantinas just for a buff? Really? Abandoned buildings. Flying through space for hours with nothing happening. Classes that made little to no sense because getting them was an ultra grind. Three health bars?

 

Even the developers have come forward to say the game was dead: D-E-A-D. Large portions of the market left for more accessible, more streamlined games. SWG was left with the last few 1000s of people who thought SWG was something worth playing.

 

The "we" that people like Ashek speak about are nothing more than the very vocal people who post on forums at one of the worst MMO forums on the planet (in terms of community, discussion, etc).

Edited June 2, 2014 by Arkerus

[Rhalius]

lol, EA wouldnt know a good business model if it slapped them in the face. They must be devastated that they didnt get the worst company of the year award this time. It's never been due to a lack of trying on their part after all.

[TUXs]

Bad for long term success. It seems Bioware is content being just another F2P MMO that's offered though, in which case it's fine. As long as they're not trying to be a leading MMO, it doesn't matter when they release stuff, only a few of us care anyway.

[Uncle_Robo]

I wouldn't worry too much about other games. The weather is getting nicer outside so more people may be spending more time away from their computers. I think the current business model is working as intended, but can be improved. There's always going to be a new game to play, but you can always come back to this one if and when you feel like it.

[JimG]

There were a lot more players in the first few weeks of SWTOR's launch than there were 2-3 months later. New games always have a lot of players in the first few weeks that won't stick around. There will always be less people who would be willing to spend 2-3 years playing a game than checking out a new game for 2-3 weeks. This is basically the same thing that was said after Diablo 3, Guild Wars, ESO and half a dozen other games...and here we still are. Frankly, this far into SWTOR, the MMO flavor of the month people are probably mostly already long gone from the game. Some people might check out other games but it's not really a big deal.....can't expect people to play this game for 80 hours every single week. I'm here because I love Star Wars. So unless a new Star Wars MMO is introduced, I won't be leaving this game. I couldn't care less about Wildstar. I have zero interest in it. Checked out a video about it for a couple of minutes and it looks like it was designed for 13 year old kids with A.D.D. hopped up on Red Bull.

[Andryah]

I couldn't care less about Wildstar. ......... it looks like it was designed for 13 year old kids with A.D.D. hopped up on Red Bull.

 

In other words ------> the center of the bell-curve distribution of the MMO player base these days.

 

On a more serious note.... /Agree with you.

[DOHboy]

In other words ------> the center of the bell-curve distribution of the MMO player base these days.

 

On a more serious note.... /Agree with you.

 

did you seriously pull out Gaussian distribution?what the 5 people on here who probably understand that especially given the RNG haters threads. Might as well drop something like 6 sigma and watch heads explode.

 

I've avoided this thread for one simple reason...asking if a billion dollar company has a bad business model is rather stupid..we would know, since they would be gone overnight.

[Reno_Tarshil]

did you seriously pull out Gaussian distribution?what the 5 people on here who probably understand that especially given the RNG haters threads. Might as well drop something like 6 sigma and watch heads explode.

 

I've avoided this thread for one simple reason...asking if a billion dollar company has a bad business model is rather stupid..we would know, since they would be gone overnight.

 

If the game wasn't making an acceptable profit, I don't think any of us would be here, tbh.

[DOHboy]

If the game wasn't making an acceptable profit, I don't think any of us would be here, tbh.

 

BUT..BUT..Its dieing, servers should be shut down week after ESO release..or was it wildstar...oh my bad it will be a week after Elite