why is pvp considered a mini game and Pve isn't?

[AlienEyeTX]

Here's my take on it:

 

EVERYTHING is a mini-game, including Ops, PvP, Crafting, GSF. The game is 1-55. Once you hit 55, it's all the same....pick the mini-game you wanna play and go with it.

 

In a way, yes. Ain't it great to have options?

 

But Oricon and the new flashpoints... I'd consider those part of the main game because they deal with the main story. Everything else is just pure entertainment.

[TUXs]

Might be true if the games were not designed as PvE with a PvP option. No game on the market, except a 2 player arcade game is designed around PvP.

1-55, yes, PvE progresses the story of your character. At 55, it doesn't matter. EVERYTHING you do is a mini-game at 55.

[Joesixxpack]

Regardless of WHY someone plays a game does not change the fact that the primary theme in every MMO is PvE.

 

Planetside 2 and a bunch of others beg to differ.

[Infernixx]

PVP, unless solo dueling, involves competition *and* cooperation obviously.

 

And yet, half those cooperative efforts are required to fail for the system to work. The teams may be cooperative, but the system is a competitive system.

 

This is why it fails and why it is relegated to 'mini-game' status.

[TUXs]

In a way, yes. Ain't it great to have options?

Yes it is. I participate in PvP, PvE and GSF...hate crafting. But they are ALL mini-games meant to burn time while I'm online.

[robertthebard]

you said Pve was the main draw. A fair case can be made that, that isn't true in those cases as many people may play for Wildstar's war plots or to win those competitions in wow

 

Many people choose to play PvP here. Does that mean that PvP is the main draw? Before you go off on a tangent, I came here because it's a PvE game. I'm not a big SW fan, so I didn't start with betas, despite being invited to do so due to a long standing "relationship" with BioWare games. I didn't come because they had 1 2 3 go PvP, and have never set foot in a WZ. So no, really there is no "fair case to be made" for PvP being the main draw. In my experience with PvP players in my guild, games like World of Tanks, Battlefield, and to some even CoD was PvP. I went to Aion because it was supposed to be both, and stayed a good long while playing a dominated faction, and still go back when I feel the need to PvP. Note, when I feel the need to PvP, I go play a game that was designed with PvP in mind, not a game where it's an afterthought.

[TUXs]

So no, really there is no "fair case to be made" for PvP being the main draw.

Maybe not to you, but I assure you it is for other players. Would you say crafting was a draw? Raids? All mini-games, just like PvP.

[OddballEasyEight]

The reason I see most for pvp being called a mini game is it had no impact on the rest of the world. Neither does Pve, Pve once again meaning ops/fp's, it's all instanced. So why are Pve instances more important? Especially since you don't need to do any of the previous operations to do the later ones.

 

The reason I see for PvP being called a mini game has never ever been anything other than "this is a PvE game focused on stories".

And in a PvE game, PvP will always be a "minigame".

Just like in a PvP game, PvE will always be a "minigame" (If it's even included, which it usually isnt').

 

As for impact on the world... Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, has an impact on the rest of the world.

I'm not joking here, you might think that the class storylines has an impact on the world, but they don't. Everyone gets the same ending (with tiny differences). It's not like what you do in your playthrough in any way affects my world.

 

PvE instances are simply more important because this is primarily a PvE game.

Simple as that.

[Superman_AZ]

1-55, yes, PvE progresses the story of your character. At 55, it doesn't matter. EVERYTHING you do is a mini-game at 55.

 

Agreed. At 55, everything is a mini-game. From 1-54, PvE is the main game and PvP is still a mini-game.

[OddballEasyEight]

Might be true if the games were not designed as PvE with a PvP option. No game on the market, except a 2 player arcade game is designed around PvP.

 

Have you played APB???

[robertthebard]

The reason I see for PvP being called a mini game has never ever been anything other than "this is a PvE game focused on stories".

And in a PvE game, PvP will always be a "minigame".

Just like in a PvP game, PvE will always be a "minigame" (If it's even included, which it usually isnt').

 

As for impact on the world... Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, has an impact on the rest of the world.

I'm not joking here, you might think that the class storylines has an impact on the world, but they don't. Everyone gets the same ending (with tiny differences). It's not like what you do in your playthrough in any way affects my world.

 

PvE instances are simply more important because this is primarily a PvE game.

Simple as that.

 

This is truer than some realize:

 

 

When my sniper goes to the fleet, as seldom as possible, believe me, there is no fleet. All my other 55s have it floating there, where it's always been, but not so for my sniper. Since anecdotal evidence is anecdotal:

 

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/robertthebard/th_StoletheFleet.jpg

 

That's a first person view of my Sniper, sitting at the fleet. When I use the door, there is no docking cutscene.

 

[Superman_AZ]

Planetside 2 and a bunch of others beg to differ.

 

Planetside 2 is an MMO-FPS, not MMO-RPG. Every First Person Shooter will have PvP. However, even in PS2, you still have to pick a side to fight on. New Conglomorate, Terran Repulic, or Vanu Sovereignty. You are still picking a side in a PvE faction to fight WITH while battling other players. Just like picking Alliance or Horde, Republic or Imperial, and so on.

 

Also, the topic at hand has to do with TOR, and how PvP really is a mini-game within the PvE context, just like every other MMO-RPG.

[Superman_AZ]

Have you played APB???

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APB:_All_Points_Bulletin

 

I've not. But, according to the description, it is an MMO where you pick a faction, Enforcers or Criminals, and according to the description:

 

Depending on faction, players will have either a Prestige or Notoriety level, going from 0 to 5. This level goes up as the player successfully performs actions that help their faction's cause, such as killing players of the opposing faction, completing missions successfully, or by engaging in activities unique to their faction.

 

There is also a neutral zone where players from both sides interact without the ability to harm one another. So it is a PvE game, on a PvP only style server. You still have more to do than just PvP to earn points and upgrades for your faction/rep. Just like in WoW, you can kill each other anywhere, but step into Shattrath or Dalaran, and there is no fighting, even on a PvP server.

 

Like I said, even MMO-TPS like this still have a PvE foundation, even if the majority of your actions have you flagged for combat. Just like WoW on a PvP server.

[MillionsKNives]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APB:_All_Points_Bulletin

 

I've not. But, according to the description, it is an MMO where you pick a faction, Enforcers or Criminals, and according to the description:

 

 

 

There is also a neutral zone where players from both sides interact without the ability to harm one another. So it is a PvE game, on a PvP only style server. You still have more to do than just PvP to earn points and upgrades for your faction/rep. Just like in WoW, you can kill each other anywhere, but step into Shattrath or Dalaran, and there is no fighting, even on a PvP server.

 

Like I said, even MMO-TPS like this still have a PvE foundation, even if the majority of your actions have you flagged for combat. Just like WoW on a PvP server.

 

It's actually kind of the opposite of what you just described. All missions are PVP matches, you don't pick up a quest and hope to complete it without confrontation. Instead you queue up and get into a match with others where you PVP over objectives. You actually can't go attacking anyone you want, the only way you get "flagged for PVP" outside of matches is if you get your notoriety too high, kind of like getting high stars in GTA.

 

The shared area is pretty much like our fleet. You can't do anything there except interact with some terminals.

Edited May 6, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[Drockter]

Wow... lots of strong emotions...

 

I'm a PvE'er most of the time... but casually play PvP.

 

One thing that seems to happen in every MMO... the division between PvE Players and PvP Players... not sure why.. from the comments above PvE'ers tend to believe that PvP'ers are the source of the nerf hammer. Thing is... I have never seen this actually play out.

 

Here's why, the Dread Council can't complain if a particular power/ability is OP or broken. Its only when it is used on another player that the issue manifests. When the power is looked at the dev's generally see that it isn't acting the way it was intended, and adjust it accordingly.

 

Besides, when this type of thing occurs, I have never seen a dramatically bad impact on PvE... which, for the most part, is relatively easy (mechanics are always the same, mobs stand in the same spot, etc... its only a matter of time before you master the PvE). PvP however, is dynamic. You never know what the team composition is going to be, how good their healer is, etc etc etc. So even when the nerf hammer comes out... its generally the speed runners in PvE who complain the loudest.

[Joesixxpack]

Planetside 2 is an MMO-FPS, not MMO-RPG. Every First Person Shooter will have PvP. However, even in PS2, you still have to pick a side to fight on. New Conglomorate, Terran Repulic, or Vanu Sovereignty. You are still picking a side in a PvE faction to fight WITH while battling other players. Just like picking Alliance or Horde, Republic or Imperial, and so on.

 

Also, the topic at hand has to do with TOR, and how PvP really is a mini-game within the PvE context, just like every other MMO-RPG.

 

You'd said MMO so I was responding to that. If you mean MMORPG yeah true.

[Superman_AZ]

the only way you get "flagged for PVP" outside of matches is if you get your notoriety too high, kind of like getting high stars in GTA.

 

The shared area is pretty much like our fleet. You can't do anything there except interact with some terminals.

 

So really, it is PvP in controlled situations. Like in an instance, or on a PvP server.

[Superman_AZ]

You'd said MMO so I was responding to that. If you mean MMORPG yeah true.

 

Saying every MMO is alike is like saying every arcade game is alike. But, since we need to maintain specifics to avoid confusion, I will go forward using MMO-RPG.

[TUXs]

It's actually kind of the opposite of what you just described. All missions are PVP matches, you don't pick up a quest and hope to complete it without confrontation. Instead you queue up and get into a match with others where you PVP over objectives. You actually can't go attacking anyone you want, the only way you get "flagged for PVP" outside of matches is if you get your notoriety too high, kind of like getting high stars in GTA.

 

The shared area is pretty much like our fleet. You can't do anything there except interact with some terminals.

 

While true in some districts, there are also 2 team death match districts as well where there are no "objectives" other than PvP. Getting "flagged" simply opens you up to attack from anyone FFA style. Any time you are on an active mission, you are subject to PvP.

So really, it is PvP in controlled situations. Like in an instance, or on a PvP server.

 

No, not really. Not in some of the zones. It's 90% open world gameplay and there are ways to kill people even if they aren't part of your active mission.

 

Edit: APB is also doing a complete engine upgrade. Kinda sad that a F2P MMO like theirs has the ability to do it and SWTOR can't.

Edited May 6, 2014 by TUXs

[ivanhedgehog]

Not seeing how this addresses OP's question....

 

If pvp were to be removed from the game, a majority of players would continue on just fine. if pve was removed, there would be no game. In the end though, its all a game and the term minigame was is a construct used to describe a smal subsection of the game. it is used differently by different people and really isnt that important.

[Superman_AZ]

No, not really. Not in some of the zones. It's 90% open world gameplay and there are ways to kill people even if they aren't part of your active mission.

 

So... just like a PvP server for a PvE game.

[ivanhedgehog]

So are all competitive games failures? Is LoL, the must played game in the world, a failure because one team loses?

 

Ate the mlb, nfl and nhl failures because not everyone wins the championship?

 

the winning side players make millions of $$$. so do the losing side players. does either side really lose??

[Superman_AZ]

If pvp were to be removed from the game, a majority of players would continue on just fine. if pve was removed, there would be no game. In the end though, its all a game and the term minigame was is a construct used to describe a smal subsection of the game. it is used differently by different people and really isnt that important.

 

I agree. Get to 55, and play whatever you like. Even though SWTOR is a PvE game with a PvP mini-game, lots of people still enjoy both, as well they should. If you hate the game, you're likely playing the wrong game.

[AlienEyeTX]

Yes it is. I participate in PvP, PvE and GSF...hate crafting. But they are ALL mini-games meant to burn time while I'm online.

 

I don't even understand why people feel the need to label things as such. All of these are part of the game as a whole. All of them together comprise "the game." They are different activities in the game, not their own game. Why can't we just leave it at that?

[TUXs]

So... just like a PvP server for a PvE game.

Not at all. A PvP server in this game just means the enemy is always open to attack from me in cross faction areas. That doesn't make SWTOR a PvE game. PvP is just a preference, like PvE or RP is.