why is pvp considered a mini game and Pve isn't?

[Reno_Tarshil]

They're not comparable actually. My post can be taken as an insult by people who demonstrate what I described, but truth hurts. Tell someone who weighs 800 lbs that they're obese and they'll likely get pissed. Doesn't make the comment untrue.

 

Calm down, when my posts don't give any indication otherwise is silly trolling.

 

You missed the point which was it wasn't needed to be said but you did it anyways.

[Superman_AZ]

To be clear when I say Pve I mean flash points and operations.

 

There is no difference between instanced warzones and instanced fp's/ops. Neither one has any appreciable effect on the world at large. if no one downs the current end boss of the latest OP there will be absolutely no difference in the game. So I don't understand why instanced warzones are a mini game and instanced ops/fp's aren't.

 

So why do all the carebears get all high and mighty calling pvp a mini game? If anything it's less of a mini game than Pve since making my team win directly affects the other teams progression (they get less rewards, not much less but still less).

 

The ultimate draw in ANY mmo-rpg is the PvE content. With WoW it was Orcs vs Humans, not Player vs Player. Even now it is Faction vs Evil, not Faction vs faction that drives ANY MMO's end game content. PvP is a cute distraction, but no game is designed around PvP. Even first person shooters are still a Shooter game with a multi-player pvp "option". No game is a PvP game with a "Single player option".

[Infernixx]

You missed the point which was it wasn't needed to be said but you did it anyways.

 

He seems a bit upset to me.

[Joesixxpack]

You missed the point which was it wasn't needed to be said but you did it anyways.

 

I answered OP's question. You might not like the answer but who cares? We're just sharing opinions here.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I answered OP's question. You might not like the answer but who cares? We're just sharing opinions here.

 

[robertthebard]

I never said it wasn't. I'm merely suggesting that if it is so are the Pve instances. It comes up a lot in class balance threads and content update threads where people make the claim "balance shouldn't be based on a mini game" or "there shouldn't be updates centered around a mini game"so I feel it's worth discussing.

 

Except that they're not nerfing Flash Bang to a single target skill for PvE reasons. In this instance, by your own definition, they shouldn't. Are you now going to lobby them to revert the change? No? Why not? Is it because you can't beat an Op if they don't nerf them? Because you can bet, as I pointed out earlier, the mobs weren't on the forums qqing about Flash Bang. You see, over the course of those two updates, PvE for Agents changed drastically to accommodate PvP. I used to buy the cover story about OS, until FB got hit, so I'm not buying it any more.

 

Used to be, I could focus fire the elite and use OS to clear the trash while I killed it. After that, I could FB the group, then clean the trash and focus the elite. Now, I have to just fight them all, since the two skills that most reliably dealt with larger crowds of mobs, Makeb, I'm looking at you, are now next to useless for that purpose. OS at least had a cover story, but FB? Nope, nerfed purely as a bandaid for PvPers.

[Joesixxpack]

The ultimate draw in ANY mmo-rpg is the PvE content. With WoW it was Orcs vs Humans, not Player vs Player. Even now it is Faction vs Evil, not Faction vs faction that drives ANY MMO's end game content. PvP is a cute distraction, but no game is designed around PvP. Even first person shooters are still a Shooter game with a multi-player pvp "option". No game is a PvP game with a "Single player option".

 

EVE, the Battlefields, loads of crappy but well-populated F2Ps like Nexon's stuff, actually a pretty long list of straight MP PVP or primarily that. ESO, from what I saw in beta and reviews is PVP endgame. Haven't seen or heard of anyone being impressed by doing other faction quests.

[Infernixx]

EVE, the Battlefields, loads of crappy but well-populated F2Ps like Nexon's stuff, actually a pretty long list of straight MP PVP or primarily that. ESO, from what I saw in beta and reviews is PVP endgame. Haven't seen or heard of anyone being impressed by doing other faction quests.

 

Great list. Irrelevant, but extensive. Well done.

[Capt_Beers]

And yet, the whole entirety of PVE is designed around the idea of success through perpetual striving forward and 'everyone' can win. Everyone who tries 'can' eventually win if they try hard enough.

 

With PVP, it's the exact opposite. The system requires half its participants to lose. That's a failure of a system and that's why it's a mini-game.

 

So are all competitive games failures? Is LoL, the must played game in the world, a failure because one team loses?

 

Ate the mlb, nfl and nhl failures because not everyone wins the championship?

[Joesixxpack]

Great list. Irrelevant, but extensive. Well done.

 

Your trolling is bad and you should feel bad. Stay on topic please.

[Infernixx]

So are all competitive games failures? Is LoL, the must played game in the world, a failure because one team loses?

 

Ate the mlb, nfl and nhl failures because not everyone wins the championship?

 

Again, I'm referring only to TOR. You can leave the rest of that crap out there because it's not relevant to the discussion.

[Capt_Beers]

The ultimate draw in ANY mmo-rpg is the PvE content. With WoW it was Orcs vs Humans, not Player vs Player. Even now it is Faction vs Evil, not Faction vs faction that drives ANY MMO's end game content. PvP is a cute distraction, but no game is designed around PvP. Even first person shooters are still a Shooter game with a multi-player pvp "option". No game is a PvP game with a "Single player option".

 

Wildstar has extensive pvp end game plans, wow has pvp world championship tournaments.

[Superman_AZ]

EVE, the Battlefields, loads of crappy but well-populated F2Ps like Nexon's stuff, actually a pretty long list of straight MP PVP or primarily that. ESO, from what I saw in beta and reviews is PVP endgame. Haven't seen or heard of anyone being impressed by doing other faction quests.

 

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PvE

 

Eve may have a lot of PvP interaction, but the storyline and foundation are still PvE. Every game in existence is about the PvE rivalry between 2 or more factions and the players who support them. PvP is merely the offshoot to allow players to battle each other from within said factions, and sometimes from without.

[Capt_Beers]

Again, I'm referring only to TOR. You can leave the rest of that crap out there because it's not relevant to the discussion.

 

Your comment still makes no sense. The system isn't a failure because someone lost. It's designed so that someone loses. That's the whole point of competition.

[Superman_AZ]

Wildstar has extensive pvp end game plans, wow has pvp world championship tournaments.

 

And yet both are still housed within the confines of a PvE game.

[Capt_Beers]

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/PvE

 

Eve may have a lot of PvP interaction, but the storyline and foundation are still PvE. Every game in existence is about the PvE rivalry between 2 or more factions and the players who support them. PvP is merely the offshoot to allow players to battle each other from within said factions, and sometimes from without.

 

But in this game there is no competition between the factions outside of pvp. No one gets anything if their faction is better at operations and really there is no way on game atm to know who is better at ops.

[Joesixxpack]

Again, I'm referring only to TOR. You can leave the rest of that crap out there because it's not relevant to the discussion.

 

Yeah it is. TOR is just another venue for team competition.

[Infernixx]

Your comment still makes no sense. The system isn't a failure because someone lost. It's designed so that someone loses. That's the whole point of competition.

 

Right and PVE is the main game because it's a game of cooperation, not competition.

 

Since you seem intent on using RL examples, here's a few examples for you.

 

Finding a cure for Polio = A cooperative achievement.

 

Getting a Super Bowl Ring = A competitive achievement.

[Superman_AZ]

But in this game there is no competition between the factions outside of pvp. No one gets anything if their faction is better at operations and really there is no way on game atm to know who is better at ops.

 

They have:

Missions

Storyline Missions

COSMOS Missions

Exploration

Deadspace complexes

Empire ratting

 

and more. I get that PvPers hate being part of a mini-game, but that is just how it is. Every game is based on a story. Every story is "X" hates "Y" and you must pick a side to fight for. The opportunity for X player to fight Y player in a battle to the death is only made possible through the lesser important PvP in their PvE game.

[Capt_Beers]

And yet both are still housed within the confines of a PvE game.

 

you said Pve was the main draw. A fair case can be made that, that isn't true in those cases as many people may play for Wildstar's war plots or to win those competitions in wow

[TUXs]

Here's my take on it:

 

EVERYTHING is a mini-game, including Ops, PvP, Crafting, GSF. The game is 1-55. Once you hit 55, it's all the same....pick the mini-game you wanna play and go with it.

[Kalfear]

You can't use that word. Only we can use that word. It is offensive to my people.

 

LMAO, now that's funny!

 

As for topic,

 

Its not that hard to understand

Warzone PVP is called a lesser PVP style by established PVPers themselves.

 

Its the very definition of a meaningless mini game

 

Every Operation and Flashpoint in this game are tied to the established storylines of game and in many ways are the finish to those storylines.

 

OP claims there is not prerequisite to doing those storylines but hes false there. There is level prerequisites that ensure you have touched on these storylines (sometimes its only some classes that touch on them) before the Ops or Flashpoint happen.

 

Warzones are just throw away side content like Space game is.

 

If TOR wanted to incorperate the PVP into the game and hold meaning they would have gone with the much more respected and demanded RVR style of PVP.

 

What I dont get is why it matters to the OP?

If you like warzones, then go play them

Personally the thought of spending one more minute in the mindless junk makes me rethink coming back at all.

Haven't stepped for in a warzone since I came back and doubt I will going forward.

 

Warzone PVP ranks right up there with the space content IMO.

Toss away content that can easily be ignored

 

When TOR gets BIG BOY PVP (RVR), then I'll take notice of PVP in this game

Till then however,

This is a 100% PVE designed game.

[Superman_AZ]

you said Pve was the main draw. A fair case can be made that, that isn't true in those cases as many people may play for Wildstar's war plots or to win those competitions in wow

 

Regardless of WHY someone plays a game does not change the fact that the primary theme in every MMO is PvE.

[Joesixxpack]

Right and PVE is the main game because it's a game of cooperation, not competition.

 

Since you seem intent on using RL examples, here's a few examples for you.

 

Finding a cure for Polio = A cooperative achievement.

 

Getting a Super Bowl Ring = A competitive achievement.

 

PVP, unless solo dueling, involves competition *and* cooperation obviously.

[Superman_AZ]

Here's my take on it:

 

EVERYTHING is a mini-game, including Ops, PvP, Crafting, GSF. The game is 1-55. Once you hit 55, it's all the same....pick the mini-game you wanna play and go with it.

 

Might be true if the games were not designed as PvE with a PvP option. No game on the market, except a 2 player arcade game is designed around PvP.