why is pvp considered a mini game and Pve isn't?

[Infernixx]

Not seeing how this addresses OP's question....

 

PVE is considered the main game because it's basically the players being challenged by the game designers with successive levels of challenge provided for those who want it.

 

PVP is glorified group-based dueling for bragging rights.

[Capt_Beers]

It is certainly the root of class nerfs, since you can bet that the mobs aren't coming to forums qqing about specific classes being OP. Really though, that's the case in any MMO with PvP enabled. I don't even have to visit the PvP forums here to know that if I were a Kleenex salesman, I could make a fortune selling Kleenex there. I mean seriously, the only threads I see posted on the General forum that concern PvP are QQ threads, such as this very thread. If you substituted "Mommy, that mean PvE player said my PvP was a minigame", it wouldn't change the context of the OP, would it? Then there was that special snowflake qqing about rancor mounts, that caving to the, in his own words, special snowflakes and making a different skinned rancor made him a less special snowflake.

 

I'd bet the real PvP players wish some of the more "vocal" posters here would shut up, since they do paint a picture that doesn't fit with the image they'd like to have: Hardcore players that know how to overcome different classes w/out having to come here begging the devs to do it for them.

 

Not always. Orbital was nerfed because of Pve and the changes to bloodthirst were made for the same reason, to avoid stacking of certain classes in operations.

 

And all anyone complains about on this board is they don't have enough stories or the right kind of clothes to play dress up with.

[cycao]

PVE is considered the main game because it's basically the players being challenged by the game designers with successive levels of challenge provided for those who want it.

 

PVP is glorified group-based dueling for bragging rights.

 

Aren't there bragging rights for PvE though with world firsts and what not?

[Joesixxpack]

PVE is considered the main game because it's basically the players being challenged by the game designers with successive levels of challenge provided for those who want it.

 

PVP is glorified group-based dueling for bragging rights.

 

You and the other guy are posting personal opinions of why you or other people PVE or PVP. That doesn't address OP's question.

[Thoronmir]

You can't use that word. Only we can use that word. It is offensive to my people.

We at the CDL (Carebear Defamation League) demand an investigation into this abuse of the word!

 

As someone who only PvEs, I always considered PvP just one more way to play to game ... which is good. More people in Warzones means fewer people competing with me to kill those 30 mobs for the bonus mission I'm working on for a Planet mission. Some days, I wish more people would PvP and get out of my way.

 

But if the question is whether FPs and OPs share equal status with PvP, I've researched this extensively and all evidence supports the conclusion that ... I just don't care. This thread seems like someone trying to start a fight.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Thoronmir

[Infernixx]

Aren't there bragging rights for PvE though with world firsts and what not?

 

Not really. Does anyone here know who got World First DF NiM without resorting to Googling it?

 

No one cares about that sort of stuff in TOR.

 

And again, any system that requires half its players to fail in order for the system to work? That's a terrible system that deserves to be kept at mini-game levels.

[Capt_Beers]

PVE is considered the main game because it's basically the players being challenged by the game designers with successive levels of challenge provided for those who want it.

 

PVP is glorified group-based dueling for bragging rights.

 

Pve is a glorified choose you own adventure story/theme park designed to be beaten.

 

Pvp is a test of player skill and class knowledge set against thinking opponents to complete objectives set forth by the devs. Once you have mastered your class in normal you move on to ranked where the challenge gets greater.

 

See I can do that too

Edited May 6, 2014 by Capt_Beers

[Infernixx]

You and the other guy are posting personal opinions of why you or other people PVE or PVP. That doesn't address OP's question.

 

He asked why PVP was considered a mini-game. I assume he was addressing his question to other forum goers, such as myself.

 

That's my reason. You can dismiss it as you like, but he got his answer, whether he likes it or not.

 

Now, if he was just making a rhetorical question and a passive-aggressive way of saying "PVP is not a mini-game!" then he should just come out and say so. But, to me, PVP is a mini-game that I rank up there with WoW's Pet Battles and GSF.

 

Mini-games.

[Joesixxpack]

Not really. Does anyone here know who got World First DF NiM without resorting to Googling it?

 

No one cares about that sort of stuff in TOR.

 

And again, any system that requires half its players to fail in order for the system to work? That's a terrible system that deserves to be kept at mini-game levels.

 

Must be why there aren't any server first and world first threads on this site.

 

You're not making sense man... unless you think kids tee ball, pro team sports, olympic bobsledding, etc. are terrible systems compared to target shooting and the like.

[Fantazm]

 

But if the question is whether FPs and OPs share equal status with PvP, I've researched this extensively and all evidence supports the conclusion that ... I just don't care. This thread seems like someone trying to start a fight.

 

What you said.

[Joesixxpack]

He asked why PVP was considered a mini-game. I assume he was addressing his question to other forum goers, such as myself.

 

That's my reason. You can dismiss it as you like, but he got his answer, whether he likes it or not.

 

Now, if he was just making a rhetorical question and a passive-aggressive way of saying "PVP is not a mini-game!" then he should just come out and say so. But, to me, PVP is a mini-game that I rank up there with WoW's Pet Battles and GSF.

 

Mini-games.

 

I see, you're spreading your answer out over a few posts.

[Infernixx]

Pve is a glorified choose you own adventure story/theme park designed to be beaten.

 

Pvp is a test of player kill and class knowledge set against thinking opponents to complete objectives set forth by the devs. Once you have mastered your class in normal you move on to ranked where the challenge gets greater.

 

See I cab do that to

 

There's no need to get mad, bro. I'm just offering up my opinion as to why TOR doesn't treat PVP like the main game.

[Infernixx]

Must be why there aren't any server first and world first threads on this site.

 

You're not making sense man... unless you think kids tee ball, pro team sports, olympic bobsledding, etc. are terrible systems compared to target shooting and the like.

 

I'm talking about TOR, nothing else. You need to calm down.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Pve is a glorified choose you own adventure story/theme park designed to be beaten.

 

Pvp is a test of player kill and class knowledge set against thinking opponents to complete objectives set forth by the devs. Once you have mastered your class in normal you move on to ranked where the challenge gets greater.

 

See I cab do that to

 

Sorry but you need player skill in PvE as well, it's not a PvP exclusive thing.

 

Also as to your thing about Normal and Ranked, well PvE goes one step further by having you do Story Mode, then Hard Mode, Then Nightmare Mode.

 

Seems like PvE is more skill based than PvP.

[robertthebard]

You and the other guy are posting personal opinions of why you or other people PVE or PVP. That doesn't address OP's question.

 

Doesn't it? Isn't it the OP's opinion that PvP should be considered more than a minigame? He tries to "limit the field" by focusing on FPs and Ops, but since that's not all of what PvE entails in this game, he really can't. How many of your class missions didn't take place in an instance? I realize, for the sake of making himself look like he has a valid point, he has to, but really, if we isolate all instances in the game into minigames, PvP is still going to be, by and large, a minigame, by his own definition. So, semantics aside, all he's doing is qqing that people don't accept his style of gameplay as anything more than a minigame, which, by his own definition, it is. So either the instanced portions of the game are relevant, or they're not. Since PvP fits into the same "category" as FPs and Ops, it is a minigame.

[Capt_Beers]

There's no need to get mad, bro. I'm just offering up my opinion as to why TOR doesn't treat PVP like the main game.

 

I'm not mad at all. I still don't see how people can call one a mini game and the other not a mini game. There are very minor differences between the two in relation to how they impact the game at large. They give the same type of rewards, commendations, titles, gear etc. neither one is required to play for any reason directly related to your character progression.

[cycao]

Not really. Does anyone here know who got World First DF NiM without resorting to Googling it?

 

No one cares about that sort of stuff in TOR.

 

And again, any system that requires half its players to fail in order for the system to work? That's a terrible system that deserves to be kept at mini-game levels.

 

It's not really failing though. Yeah one team wins and the other loses but like running any NiM content chances are you're going to fail at it the first few times.

[MillionsKNives]

You see that's where you guys are mistaken. They are in no way woven into the sorry of anything. They are referenced but you don't have to complete anything in order to do them. They aren't integral to anything. You don't have to defeat kephess in EC for him to be in TFB. You aren't required to do any of the previous PO's to get the quests for the newest ones, they are just as disconnected from each other as the warzones are.

 

Like I said if no one, and I mean literally no one, would have downed kephess in ec he would have been referred to as dead in all subsequent content until tfb brought him back.

 

That's a lot like saying that Makeb isn't a part of the story because it only references your class quests. Or that a movie's sequel isn't woven into the story because it only references it, and even if you never watched the first one the story continues on regardless. For Makeb, you could literally not do your class quest missions and it would still refer to you as though you did. Just like in the operations, the story assumes that you took part in the previous parts.

 

From Belsavis to EC, to TFB, to S&V, to Section X, to Oricon, to DF and finally to DP, it's all the Dread Master's story. It's all woven together. You can skip as much of it as you like but it's all one contiguous story.

[Joesixxpack]

I'm talking about TOR, nothing else. You need to calm down.

 

Calm down is a silly troll comment, no need to do that sort of thing.

 

You're talking about TOR sure, but TOR PVP is just another team competition. It doesn't exist in a vacuum and other games or RL competitions are parallels in the context of this discussion.

[robertthebard]

Pve is a glorified choose you own adventure story/theme park designed to be beaten.

 

Pvp is a test of player skill and class knowledge set against thinking opponents to complete objectives set forth by the devs. Once you have mastered your class in normal you move on to ranked where the challenge gets greater.

 

See I can do that too

 

What is PvP here again? Oh yeah, get a random theme park to play in... Call me when you can cap a planet, and get a fraction of the profits from ownership. In Rappelz, PvP is used to gain ownership of dungeons, which then pay a percentage of the money dropped in the dungeon to the guild that owns it. That serves to make PvP more than spending 15 minutes at a time in a theme park earning bragging rights, or losing, whichever comes first, eh? It has absolutely no impact, and so fits squarely into the OP's definition of minigame, except, of course, that "Noooo, that's not what I meant, people have to see PvP as important, because I do".

[Reno_Tarshil]

Calm down is a silly troll comment, no need to do that sort of thing.

 

You're talking about TOR sure, but TOR PVP is just another team competition. It doesn't exist in a vacuum and other games or RL competitions are parallels in the context of this discussion.

 

You mean just like how this comment wasn't needed but you did it anyways?

 

Mostly because they're insecure nerds and it helps them feel better about their choice to avoid fighting other players ING. It's kind of sad since it's just a silly inconsequential game, not real.

[Capt_Beers]

Doesn't it? Isn't it the OP's opinion that PvP should be considered more than a minigame? He tries to "limit the field" by focusing on FPs and Ops, but since that's not all of what PvE entails in this game, he really can't. How many of your class missions didn't take place in an instance? I realize, for the sake of making himself look like he has a valid point, he has to, but really, if we isolate all instances in the game into minigames, PvP is still going to be, by and large, a minigame, by his own definition. So, semantics aside, all he's doing is qqing that people don't accept his style of gameplay as anything more than a minigame, which, by his own definition, it is. So either the instanced portions of the game are relevant, or they're not. Since PvP fits into the same "category" as FPs and Ops, it is a minigame.

 

I never said it wasn't. I'm merely suggesting that if it is so are the Pve instances. It comes up a lot in class balance threads and content update threads where people make the claim "balance shouldn't be based on a mini game" or "there shouldn't be updates centered around a mini game"so I feel it's worth discussing.

[Infernixx]

It's not really failing though. Yeah one team wins and the other loses but like running any NiM content chances are you're going to fail at it the first few times.

 

And yet, the whole entirety of PVE is designed around the idea of success through perpetual striving forward and 'everyone' can win. Everyone who tries 'can' eventually win if they try hard enough.

 

With PVP, it's the exact opposite. The system requires half its participants to lose. That's a failure of a system and that's why it's a mini-game.

[Joesixxpack]

You mean just like how this comment wasn't needed but you did it anyways?

 

They're not comparable actually. My post can be taken as an insult by people who demonstrate what I described, but truth hurts. Tell someone who weighs 800 lbs that they're obese and they'll likely get pissed. Doesn't make the comment untrue.

 

Calm down, when my posts don't give any indication otherwise is silly trolling.

[Infernixx]

I never said it wasn't. I'm merely suggesting that if it is so are the Pve instances. It comes up a lot in class balance threads and content update threads where people make the claim "balance shouldn't be based on a mini game" or "there shouldn't be updates centered around a mini game"so I feel it's worth discussing.

 

Oh sure, but again, PVP 'is' a mini-game and it shouldn't have an impact on the main game.

 

The fact that the Dev have made efforts to separate PVP changes from the PVE game says that they agree with that, too.