Commando simply not viable in PvP

[thomasgtott]

To the people who responded to my specific points, thanks. In some cases I was just plain incorrect, and appreciate useful pointers.

 

To the inevitable few who just said "you suck" , hey if it makes you feel better.

 

-----------

 

To preempt the inevitable comments that I suck and don't know how to play my class or that you have no problem playing 'mando in PvP, I refer you to the leaderboard - where at the time of this writing there are exactly 3 commandos in the top 300 (41st, 183rd, 211th overall).

 

It seems to me that the reasons for this are:

- no escape ability, no quick-travel to get distance

- CC is broken by damage while some other classes can CC me and keep hitting my immobilized toon until I'm dead.

- CC breaks have long cooldowns (tenacity 2min, HLT 30 sec.) so can use basically once per match

Commando's can do good DPS, but in arena don't often get the chance to b/c forever immobilized.

Maybe my view is noobish, but something has to explain the leaderboards and why I see so few other commando's in ranked - at least on Jedi Cov.

Edited April 30, 2014 by thomasgtott

[cashogy_reborn]

Day 1 of ranked................ lol

 

And its you, not the class.

 

And for the sake of discussion, how many Mercenaries are there?

Edited April 29, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[thomasgtott]

Day 1 of ranked................ lol

 

And its you, not the class.

 

And for the sake of discussion, how many Mercenaries are there?

 

so explain the leaderboards. Maybe I completely suck. Do ALL people who play commando suck?

[JediMasterSLC]

I had no problem getting 1500 on my mando last season- and that was as assault spec, which is now inferior to gunnery. The ability to do well in regs doesn't mean you have the skill necessary to play mando in arenas. Edited April 29, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[DarthRaika]

I had no problem getting 1500 on my mando last season- and that was as assault spec, which is now inferior to gunnery. The ability to do well in regs doesn't mean you have the skill necessary to play mando in arenas.

 

Mando is worse at ranked than some classes but can still compete. Also, the skills for ranked and objective based pvp are different. There are many ppl who do well at ranked and suck when it comes to pugging regs and there are many people who are great at regs but suck in ranked. If you suck at ranked but do well in regs then just either learn how to be better at ranked or do regs only. Ranked is pretty boring imo anyway.

 

btw, before I am insulted, the only class I did in season one was sniper and I got over 1500 in my first 15 matches. So I am not saying this as someone who is jealous of people in ranked. Just stating the way I see things. They are very different types of gameplay and require different sets of skills.

[cashogy_reborn]

Mando is worse at ranked than some classes but can still compete. Also, the skills for ranked and objective based pvp are different. There are many ppl who do well at ranked and suck when it comes to pugging regs and there are many people who are great at regs but suck in ranked. If you suck at ranked but do well in regs then just either learn how to be better at ranked or do regs only. Ranked is pretty boring imo anyway.

 

btw, before I am insulted, the only class I did in season one was sniper and I got over 1500 in my first 15 matches. So I am not saying this as someone who is jealous of people in ranked. Just stating the way I see things. They are very different types of gameplay and require different sets of skills.

 

I cant think of anyone that does well in Ranked and sucks in Regs..........

 

Regs are like Tee-ball

Edited April 30, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[DarthRaika]

I cant think of anyone that does well in Ranked and sucks in Regs..........

 

Regs are like Tee-ball

 

They are very different styles of play. Ranked is all about staying alive and killing the other team. That is all that matters. If this is your only focus in objective based pvp then you won't be a very good addition to your team. You will still get nice scoreboard stats but if you play the same way you do in ranked you won't be nearly as good as you are in ranked.

 

There are many terrible players in both solo ranked and regs. So you shouldn't say that the competition is better in solo ranked.

 

In team ranked the competition is better however, without cross server, there are not near enough good teams for teams to grow and improve and face many different types of matches. With cross server implemented then I would agree that a good group q ranked player would be always be good in regs but without this I don't think holds up either.

 

I think if you look around you will see some players that you know are good in ranked but don't really help the team very much in regs. It may be accurate to say that a very good ranked player is most likely capable of being a very good reg player and that the reverse is not true but I don't think you should say that a very good ranked player will always be very good in regs.

Edited April 30, 2014 by DarthRaika

[ManiacDavis]

Stop QQ'ing about commando/mercenary. I have been in several games today with commandos who did not know about stims, augments, or half of there abilities. Bad players do not equal a bad class. They aren't perfect, but they CAN contribute to any game if they are played by skilled players.

 

BTW: I have also seen multiple sages/sorcs that do not know they have an O-**** get out of jail free card #youcan't kill me. If you don't know the mechanics of your class, don't do ranked.

[thomasgtott]

Stop QQ'ing about commando/mercenary. I have been in several games today with commandos who did not know about stims, augments, or half of there abilities. Bad players do not equal a bad class. They aren't perfect, but they CAN contribute to any game if they are played by skilled players.

 

BTW: I have also seen multiple sages/sorcs that do not know they have an O-**** get out of jail free card #youcan't kill me. If you don't know the mechanics of your class, don't do ranked.

 

Yes I use nano-infused stims, yes I have 14 reflex augments. Yes I do know what abilities the class has. Why not address my specific points about the class instead of ad hominem attacks on bads?

Edited April 30, 2014 by thomasgtott

[Xienive]

I mainly played matches on my PT today. However I did do a few on my Merc and really enjoyed it. My merc hit 55 after season 1 ended so this was my first time playing him in ranked today and I was just as successful on him as I was on my PT. I was playing Arsenal spec.

 

Though I will say that Merc/Mando has probably been the class I have personally seen the least amount of today, though it is still the first day so everything is subject to change and likely will.

[ManiacDavis]

- no escape ability, no quick-travel to get distance

 

Hold the line, pushbacks, electro net

 

- no pvp-useful CC (unless I also want to restore you to full health)

 

Concussive round DOESN'T restore health to players (Learn your class)

 

- CC is broken by damage while some other classes can CC me and keep hitting my immobilized toon until I'm dead.

 

All 6-8 second cc can be broken by damage (flashbang, awe, force lift, concussion, etc). Your cryo grenade isn't broken with damage.

 

- CC breaks have long cooldowns (tenacity 2min, HLT 30 sec.) so can use basically once per match

 

There are talents and gear sets to lower tenacity. HLT is only 20 seconds cus it lasts 10 seconds and can be specced for longer. 20 seconds is a relatively short cooldown when compared to other abilities...

[cashogy_reborn]

To preempt the inevitable comments that I suck and don't know how to play my class or that you have no problem playing 'mando in PvP, I refer you to the leaderboard - where at the time of this writing there are exactly 3 commandos in the top 300 (41st, 183rd, 211th overall).

 

It seems to me that the reasons for this are:

- no escape ability, no quick-travel to get distance This is an area where we are lacking, Hold the Line is better than nothing tho

- no pvp-useful CC (unless I also want to restore you to full health) LOLWUT? Cryo-nade, stock strike, knockback, 8s mez. None of which restore you to full health

- CC is broken by damage while some other classes can CC me and keep hitting my immobilized toon until I'm dead. Cryo-nade is a hard stun, Concussion Roud is not. L2mez, this is you not understanding proper strategies

- CC breaks have long cooldowns (tenacity 2min, HLT 30 sec.) so can use basically once per match Stop crying about lack of CC, we actually have plenty

Commando's can do good DPS, but in arena don't often get the chance to b/c forever immobilized.

Maybe my view is noobish, but something has to explain the leaderboards and why I see so few other commando's in ranked - at least on Jedi Cov. Your view is noobish

 

Yellow.

 

Maniac beat me to it, but this has 'learn to play' written all over it. Commando has a much greater learning curve than other classes if you want to be successful at a higher level. Instead of crying that your class needs buffs, maybe find some people that play the class better than you and ask for tips?

Edited April 30, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[DarthRaika]

I likely won't do ranked on my merc for awhile since he is still largely min/max conq gear (and regardless of how good/bad you are you should get first tier first imo) but this weekend I did face the same premade in a reg arena that I saw q sync ranked on Monday and I dropped their healer before he could react by timing my burst to when he was near 50%. This is something that merc excels at. I was also able to kite their 3 dps until they gave up all 3 rounds.

 

We won round 1 and 3 and I had 7 kbs total. I also had a few other reg arena matches where I felt merc was strong but they were against bad players. Merc is weaker than some of my other classes for arena but it does have some strong selling points and much more so than it did in preseason 1.

 

btw, I don't play merc much at all and I don't claim to be great at it and that is part of the point I am trying to make.

 

One trick is that since you will often be a focus target you may want to use your instants for non-dps purposes.

[Adovir]

You could always learn how to heal, Mandos do pretty well as healers

[Jamalzero]

I cant think of anyone that does well in Ranked and sucks in Regs..........

 

I actually disagree with this, if you do well in SOLO regs then 3/10 you will do well in SOLO ranked but if youve done well in GROUPED regs then you will 100% do well in GROUPED ranked.

 

See the thing you're missing and didnt add into factor is Ranked PvP is who can focus target the best... I play a Concealment Operative and I can kill my target (DPS-3sec, Tank- 20sec, Healer-20sec) by myself 9/10... however those stats are applied to reg matches where im not in a confined space with 3 other enemies that will defend their ally. Now even with this "ranked" scenario in a regular match 9/10 your tank/healer buddy to your right may not always heal you bc he doesnt need you per say to win.

 

In a ranked match if i unstealth and burst everything i have on the healer the other 3 people on my team may not think like I do and kill the highest threat 1st... This is where the difference in play styles come in to factor. In a reg match my operative is on the hunt for solo capping opportunities and solo kills when feasible. In a ranked match I am soley trying to kill the highest threat 1st and then move to the next highest... however if i have no support in killing the healer in 3 sec (with help from the mara and merc on my team) then the healer will stun, root, knockback, roll, w/e he has to do to survive and this could ultimately result in our highest DPS (not necessarily me) being killed and its now a 3 v 4. THis has happened countless times...

 

example:

Concealment Op, Arsenal Merc, Carnage marauder, Deception Assassin VERSUS Deception assasin, Veng Jug, Healer Sorc, and Arsenal Merc.

 

Before the match started I said put a net on that healer and burn that sorc... the sin and i placed ourselves behind the sorc ready to go and we opened up, No net was popped which resulted in sorc doing GOD BUBBLE, I got netted, stunned and killed then the assassin was choked then lowslashed, then electricuted and killed, and they took their time killing the other two tards bc they were hardly a threat.

 

IN a reg match if any one of them were sitting alone i could take them out before they were even able to pop 1 defensive CD but in a confined space im relying on my TEAM to be smart and think how can i kill quick and win... which in most ranked matches if queing solo this doesnt happen...

 

**EDIT**

I actually solo kill alot in huttball (Nar Shadaa) its too easy to camp the respawn and kill the people that just died lol when they have no D'CDs its too easy and very quick lol

Edited April 30, 2014 by Jamalzero

[ManiacDavis]

I actually disagree with this, if you do well in SOLO regs then 3/10 you will do well in SOLO ranked but if youve done well in GROUPED regs then you will 100% do well in GROUPED ranked.

 

See the thing you're missing and didnt add into factor is Ranked PvP is who can focus target the best... I play a Concealment Operative and I can kill my target (DPS-3sec, Tank- 20sec, Healer-20sec) by myself 9/10... however those stats are applied to reg matches where im not in a confined space with 3 other enemies that will defend their ally. Now even with this "ranked" scenario in a regular match 9/10 your tank/healer buddy to your right may not always heal you bc he doesnt need you per say to win.

 

In a ranked match if i unstealth and burst everything i have on the healer the other 3 people on my team may not think like I do and kill the highest threat 1st... This is where the difference in play styles come in to factor. In a reg match my operative is on the hunt for solo capping opportunities and solo kills when feasible. In a ranked match I am soley trying to kill the highest threat 1st and then move to the next highest... however if i have no support in killing the healer in 3 sec (with help from the mara and merc on my team) then the healer will stun, root, knockback, roll, w/e he has to do to survive and this could ultimately result in our highest DPS (not necessarily me) being killed and its now a 3 v 4. THis has happened countless times...

 

example:

Concealment Op, Arsenal Merc, Carnage marauder, Deception Assassin VERSUS Deception assasin, Veng Jug, Healer Sorc, and Arsenal Merc.

 

Before the match started I said put a net on that healer and burn that sorc... the sin and i placed ourselves behind the sorc ready to go and we opened up, No net was popped which resulted in sorc doing GOD BUBBLE, I got netted, stunned and killed then the assassin was choked then lowslashed, then electricuted and killed, and they took their time killing the other two tards bc they were hardly a threat.

 

IN a reg match if any one of them were sitting alone i could take them out before they were even able to pop 1 defensive CD but in a confined space im relying on my TEAM to be smart and think how can i kill quick and win... which in most ranked matches if queing solo this doesnt happen...

 

**EDIT**

I actually solo kill alot in huttball (Nar Shadaa) its too easy to camp the respawn and kill the people that just died lol when they have no D'CDs its too easy and very quick lol

 

4 amazing regstars does not = a good 4v4 ranked team.

[klham]

I disagree with the title, although I understand where the OP is coming from. Commando has come a long way, and is now viable but definitely on the more difficult end of the spectrum to make work in high-level pvp for a number of reasons. The big problem last season was that Commandos were almost always targeted first for focus fire due to the lingering perception that Commandos are road kill. No unsupported player can withstand focus fire against a decent team for very long. It was frustrating, no question. Mercs did better on the leaderboards because the Imp pvp pool tends to be larger and (generally) a bit more hard-core, resulting in more experienced and geared pvp-hardened mercs that benefited from better support from team mates. Just my 2-cents.

 

Don't sweat it - find a class that suits your play style rather than hitting your head against the wall. Commando isn't for everyone.

[Jamalzero]

4 amazing regstars does not = a good 4v4 ranked team.

 

thats my point

[Jamalzero]

Still better than sorcerers, they (still) drop like flies. Seen a few comments here about how they are suppose to wreck melees. I'm not seeing it on TRE.

 

Net > push > FULL ROTATION > target dead.... im sorry what were you trying to do mr melee???

[maverickmatt]

. Instead of crying that your class needs buffs, maybe find some people that play the class better than you and ask for tips?

 

 

PLEASE pass this along to all the other class reps?

 

Useful wisdom.

[Jamalzero]

Electro net prevents: Foce jump, Force camo, Force Barrier, Cloak screen, Force Cloak, Exfiltrate. Learn how to net and whatever youre killing CAN and WILL be dead within that 6 sec period. or however long Electro net is. But isnt the normal rotation for a merc/commando: Grav/Tracerx2 > Railshot > heatseaker (the target normally is missing about 20k HP at this point if not healed) then you could hit HTL/HO and kite missle blast/explosion round til dead bc thats a 5k spamming ability thats instant lol

[MrsMolle]

I disagree with the title, although I understand where the OP is coming from. Commando has come a long way, and is now viable but definitely on the more difficult end of the spectrum to make work in high-level pvp for a number of reasons. The big problem last season was that Commandos were almost always targeted first for focus fire due to the lingering perception that Commandos are road kill. No unsupported player can withstand focus fire against a decent team for very long. It was frustrating, no question. Mercs did better on the leaderboards because the Imp pvp pool tends to be larger and (generally) a bit more hard-core, resulting in more experienced and geared pvp-hardened mercs that benefited from better support from team mates. Just my 2-cents.

 

Don't sweat it - find a class that suits your play style rather than hitting your head against the wall. Commando isn't for everyone.

 

I have a good friend who ditched his commando and went Imp side. I sent him your post hoping he'll come back and play some on Republic side now It's lonely when you only have time for 1 main toon and you nostagically picked Republic.

 

I've always had a soft spot for commandos. I'll toss bubbles and heals your way when I can

[cashogy_reborn]

Electro net prevents: Foce jump, Force camo, Force Barrier, Cloak screen, Force Cloak, Exfiltrate. Learn how to net and whatever youre killing CAN and WILL be dead within that 6 sec period. or however long Electro net is. But isnt the normal rotation for a merc/commando: Grav/Tracerx2 > Railshot > heatseaker (the target normally is missing about 20k HP at this point if not healed) then you could hit HTL/HO and kite missle blast/explosion round til dead bc thats a 5k spamming ability thats instant lol

 

Do you even play this class?

[DerTaran]

I'm probably not a good player, but I'm willing to learn. What happened to me last week in preseason about 5 times in a row (ok, we were always the same 8 rep players mixed up differently). Game started, my team moved forewar, I was stunned or mezzed, team doesn't care and continuing hunting the focus target at the other site of the map, 1 or 2 shadow(s) unhinde and damage was comming in, I was CCed again, more damage, and dead. Zero points.

 

This happened to me every single time, so I could try different strategies like using adrenalin and shild in advance, stun break early, stun break late, pushback, the result was always the same, death in seconds.

 

I would be glad, if somebody can give me a better strategy to survive situations like this, but I assume, if the other 3 leave you alone dying, the chances to escape are null.

 

I'm not saying, that this happened to me only because I'm a commando. It happened to me because I was selected to be the first focus target, (and this might be related to my class).

 

If the commando stays first blood all the time (just because we used to be first blood in season 1), than our class will stay bad in ranked in season 2 as well, even if we are definetly not as weak anymore than we were the last two years.

 

I also have to say, I had other games, where the team was staying together, and I was the last man standing.

Edited April 30, 2014 by DerTaran

[BenitsubasaChiyo]

I've only played like 3 games (1 in team, 2 solo) so my experience is kinda negligeable, but it seemed ok. Sure you get focused quite a lot, but I think it's absolutely possible to be a successful mando in ranked. It's all about using your utility properly.

That being said, the learning curve for Mando is somewhat higher compared to other classes (and that's what I personally like about this particular class;))