Rodiruk Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 All this is, in my opinion, a bunch of bullpoop Unless you come from the most craptastic server in WoW, the community was actually a whole lot better back in vanilla/tbc days. These days you hardly know people on your own server, or even in your own guild! Back in "the good old days" you were forced to actively look for people to join your group, and the pool was naturally restricted to your own server. This did make the server and guild communities a whole lot stronger then they are today. As for your point about "if you dont like it, dont use it"; people are lazy and instances have become complete facerolls! If you had timewarped the LFG-tool straight into vanilla, people would not have been that eager to use it. Why? Because instances were actually a challenge back then. If you grouped with people who did not use CC and could follow a simple attack order, you would fail. People used to learn their characters in these groups. Unlike today, when if you utterly suck at your class you can just queue again and somewhere down the line someone will carry you through, people had invested time in getting you there, and were unwilling to just boot you. So they gave you tips and directions to get you on par. So, even if I would rather prefer grouping with guildmates or even people from my own server, there is no real possible negative consequense for using the LFG-tool... There is no real fear of it all going straight to the fiery pits of wipe-hell. So I use it to gear and cap valor points fast. The first incarnation of the LFG-tool was as far as it should have gone. A simple flagging yourself that you are available. No random, cross-server insta-porting tool of community and player skill destruction. So you don't mind waiting and wasting time staring at a LFG channel, but you hate that there is a chance you might get some noob who you have to carry through the instance? If you do, just boot him and queue up for another replacement? While I have no hard data to back this up, in my own experience, I spent more time looking for groups in a channel then dealing with baddies with the LFG tool. Again, as stated, you can continue to spam channels and socialize. The tool doesn't take that away from you. It only adds for the many players like me who would like to play a game. Also the community used to be so great? Serenity Now's funeral crash video would like to speak with you about how great the community was. This affects a multitude of aspects in a MMORPG. Remember how people used to feel a real connection to their spec in WoW? How people were known by their specs, as an appendix to their name? In TBC I was known as XXXXXXXX "the CC hunter". With my dedicated survival spec I could CC like headlights to a deer, or several. Every day I got lots of requests for grouping because of this. People knew that if they brought this player they got good CC. A LFG-tool, paired with dual-specs, will remove any possibility of such a strong character-building! In addition, the respec-cost in WoW is completely redicolous when considering the inflation of gold. There is no setback at all when doing a respec. As of today you have players who have tankspecs to LFG, only to swap when grouped, run headfirst into the first pack of mobs, and unless the healer is stupid enough to actually stay and spam-heal, wipe the group. Likewise, you have players with healing specs to lfg, only to swap when grouped, hoping to force any other heal-capable player to take over. First of all, out of 100's of dungeon runs I have done, I have had the above issue happen maybe 3-4 times. BioWare, and any developer for that matter, should not design a game around the slight slight slight chance that someone will troll in a manner that doesn't really break the game. You can, like I have said up top, vote him out of the group and queue up again. As for the "the CC hunter", when dual spec was introduced suddenly everyone got amnesia and forgot that you could CC? How does having dual spec have any bearing on your performance as survival? It does not. With dual spec, I knew of certain people who played a certain role great, and they were known for it. Having dual spec did not change that. The danger of implementing too much access to data is the curve one has seen in WoW. Early on the challenge was getting 40 people to execute something properly. Because of the extreme access to game data, the development demand has become much higher. HC raid bosses now have to provide challenges to tanking, healing, dps and at the same time a high level of coordination and execution. Why is more challenging content a bad thing? Waiting can actually be quite fun, if you can stomach actually figuring out something to do on your own... Like socializing, crafting, exploring, etc... How do you explore and find crafting nodes while standing in one spot spamming for a group? Or did you mean crew missions and exploring the republic fleet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) I agree OP. LFD really isn't all that bad and it doesn't even need to be cross realm to be honest. You've already stuck the dungeon entrances in one area already, and yes people will be douche bags with it or without it. The only big change LFD did to groups was making them easier to find. Waiting can actually be quite fun, if you can stomach actually figuring out something to do on your own... Like socializing, crafting, exploring, etc... I certainly enjoyed more aspects of the game in the earlier stages of WoW. Since WotLK I have hardly moved my character outside the capitol cities, because there is no need to. And the reason for WoW still being the number 1 MMORPG is hardly quality. WoW was the first mainstream MMO, and it attracted a huge new playerbase. For most people, swapping to another MMO is too much of a hassle. They might try LOTRO or AoC, but the transition is too much work, so they shuffle back to WoW. Both those games have qualities that WoW is nowhere near. WoW's qualities all spring from two things: a huge playerbase (equals huge income, equals huge development team) and content based on lazyness. These two have an isane synergy, in that the huge playerbase (that keep the cash flowing) is kept ingame by easy access to everything (yet nothing is really rewarding). I think the only thing most MMOs have over WoW are their graphics. Ease of access to content, level of difficult, and amount of content does favor WoW as well but it's major defining achievement has always been it's gameplay. The feel of how your character moves and the abilities you have available to you all feel like they work and they work when you want to use them. It doesn't feel clunky and if used right makes you extremely potent and doesn't necessarily make you feel like you are stumbling all over your keys and sometimes having abilities not working at all. Every person I know agrees with this. The time you notice WoW the most is when you start playing other games. I've noticed it in TOR fortunately its drowned out by the insanely awesome story line and visuals this game offers. Edited December 24, 2011 by Kabloosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbig Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 They said dual-spec was comming. They said more ui options were comming. They basically said a lfg was in the works. So yea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodiruk Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 They said dual-spec was comming. They said more ui options were comming. They basically said a lfg was in the works. So yea. Do you have a link or anything for this? I couldn't find anything concrete and would like to read whatever it is you are getting this from please. I would appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggedOne Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I agree with the OP 100%, as long as the LFD tool is not cross-realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevoh Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Rodiruk, Go back to World of Warcraft. I don't want your tools for tools in my game. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodaway Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I am on the same page as the OP in every aspect he pointed out. Hopefully the devs will implement all of this in a timely manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutharex Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 What I wonder is, how does the OP know what other players want? Especially seen teh scale of player base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowfatto Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 LFG tool shouldn't be implemented, it destroyed the community WoW but that's my opinion. If they do implement any kind of LFG tool it most certainly shouldn't be cross server only within server. Regardless, BW certainly isn't going to worry about the 10%ers they already said that, as for the ranting of the minority a few have some good points but the most that I've seen are trolls that add no constructive criticism and are obviously trying to get people irritated, but with that said time to go have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclekaula Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Please dont make this WoW. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbocroft Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) Let's face it: the worsening of wow comunity has nothing to do with the LFG tool. Back in the "glorious" days of vanilla wow, comunity was good because the vast majority was inexperienced, lot of people didn't know what "aggro" meant or what a tank was. They learned by playing. Meaning that when you groupped you felt somewhat "lost" and more inclined to listen to people or to offer the few advices you knew. Then we all got used to the mechanics. In a instance you expected the dps to attack the warrior focus, the healer to use his aggro reducing abilities and so on. The majority got alphabetized in the language of mmorpg and everybody got less tollerant toward "noobs" who committed mistakes. LFG tool has nothing to do with it. Before it you actually added people at the friend list because you talked a lot with them about what "cc" meant and how to approach the fight. Even a good while before LFG tool that aspect of the game was already gone. Edited December 24, 2011 by robbocroft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberData Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 You don't like "waiting". It's called "time-investment" and it's to be expected in an MMO. Taking a speeder takes what? 45 seconds max? Give me a break. Travel in this game is easy and it helps give the game a sense of scope, depth and size. I'm for a server wide LFG system. What I'm opposed to is cross-server LFG. It just sucks the soul out of a community when you run a group with players you know you'll never see again it just encouraged not talking, not getting to know and ninja rolling on everything. Nuts to that. I'm cool with dual specs as something for Level 50's. If you want it, earn it. And it should cost 50k. Once again..earn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenthran Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Dungeon finder. I've noticed that there are people who are actually out in the world questing, socializing, exploring, and grouping with people. I find this extremely tedious and annoying. I think I speak for the majority when I say that we'd rather sit in a capital city all day trolling general while pressing the dungeon finder/PVP Warzone button over and over again. That's what MMORPGs are all about. Just look at the very successful MMORPG Call of Duty. Once dungeon finder is implemented, the next step is a cross-server dungeon finder. That way, we will be able to group up with people that we'll probably never see again. Who wants to establish relationships or friends in a MMORPG? I sure don't. Bioware, you should take a page out of Call of Duty on Xbox Live. You press a button and you just go. Oh, and please make sure you de-emphasize the importance of World PVP. I don't want to feel pressured into actually going out into the world and, you know, world PVPing. That's annoying. I need predefined objectives lest I get confused. Dual specialization and cheap respecialization fees. Don't you hate it when you specialize into a certain area, gaining benefits that allow you perform really well in a particular role, but then you're slapped in the face with a situation in which the cons of your spec become relevant? Me too. I think we should be able to get rid of those dreaded cons whenever we feel like it. I mean, seriously, what is this, Everquest? Are you trying to scare people off by making spec choice important? There should only be pros. Greatest post ever, thank you for making me smile. Stephen Colbert would approve of this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 The only issues I have with any of this is the LFD tool, people are douche bags and this just lets them continue to be like that because they can just get in when ever they want, leave it as it is and these people will become known on the server and will never get invited to any thing and they can sit alone like they should. The fact that ninja-looting is such a huge problem in SWTOR says that what you wrote above is a pure myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregordunbar Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 How about Bioware NOT dismiss anyones opinion just because its in the minority? Yeah...you typed out a great deal basically to just say that a concern is not legit just beacuse most people(or just you) dont feel it is. Its bad business to ignore part of your consumer base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Let's face it: the worsening of wow comunity has nothing to do with the LFG tool. Back in the "glorious" days of vanilla wow, comunity was good because the vast majority was inexperienced, lot of people didn't know what "aggro" meant or what a tank was. They learned by playing. Meaning that when you groupped you felt somewhat "lost" and more inclined to listen to people or to offer the few advices you knew. Then we all got used to the mechanics. In a instance you expected the dps to attack the warrior focus, the healer to use his aggro reducing abilities and so on. The majority got alphabetized in the language of mmorpg and everybody got less tollerant toward "noobs" who committed mistakes. LFG tool has nothing to do with it. Before it you actually added people at the friend list because you talked a lot with them about what "cc" meant and how to approach the fight. Even a good while before LFG tool that aspect of the game was already gone. You're suffering from Nostalgia. WoW got far more popular after it added better tools, not less. Those "glory days" you think you remember aren't real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I'm cool with dual specs as something for Level 50's. If you want it, earn it. And it should cost 50k. Once again..earn it. Thanks for letting us know your main character is about level 10. Please play the game for real before commenting on game systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutharex Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 How about Bioware NOT dismiss anyones opinion just because its in the minority? Yeah...you typed out a great deal basically to just say that a concern is not legit just beacuse most people(or just you) dont feel it is. Its bad business to ignore part of your consumer base. OP, still didn't give me the metrics and statistics you are using to say the majority of players want this to become a wow clone. Anyway, in my opinion (that is as valid as yours): - new game opens - loads of people are happy because it doesn't copy things that they don't like - wow fanbois that are bored with wow come over and start to ask that new game become more like wow - former happy people leave because if they wanted that they would play wow -wow fanbois get bored after a month, start saying new game is a poor wow clone and leave anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warec Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I agree with the OP but only if the LFG is server based ONLY. As for dual spec, it is 100% needed in this game. Don't let people tell you otherwise. The people that want to restrict people to one role are most likely going to be the first ones whining that there aren't enough tanks and healers. The important part of this game is keeping it fun. Giving people options is what is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 OP, still didn't give me the metrics and statistics you are using to say the majority of players want this to become a wow clone. Anyway, in my opinion (that is as valid as yours): Putting in modern MMORPG features doesn't make this game a WoW clone any more than putting a GPS nav computer in your Mercedes makes it a Jaguar. That's a silly argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reevax Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 The only issues I have with any of this is the LFD tool, people are douche bags and this just lets them continue to be like that because they can just get in when ever they want, leave it as it is and these people will become known on the server and will never get invited to any thing and they can sit alone like they should. They will still act like jerks no matter what, no reason to punish the rest of us by making us spam a channel hoping to get a group going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragozx Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Wanna know why a lot of people like this game a lot??? BECAUSE ITS NOT A WOW CLONE. You are trying to make this into a wow 2.0 and every MMO that tried this (like rift) failed very hard. I just hope bioware doesnt listen to catacylsm crybabies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutharex Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Putting in modern MMORPG features doesn't make this game a WoW clone any more than putting a GPS nav computer in your Mercedes makes it a Jaguar. That's a silly argument. No it's not if those features are shunned by many people and considered negatives That's the beauty of opinions: you think those things are 'modern', well there are people who think that they are just a way to dumb down and ruin a game opinions, people, opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 No it's not if those features are shunned by many people and considered negatives That's the beauty of opinions: you think those things are 'modern', well there are people who think that they are just a way to dumb down and ruin a game opinions, people, opinions I think you'll find as time goes on that this isn't going away because you are actually the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutharex Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I think you'll find as time goes on that this isn't going away because you are actually the minority. Sorry but from what I see from the forum posts, it's the opposite. At least I have some metrics to show. Every post I see whining because this isn't WoW 2.0, I see tens of different people that have my same opinion BTW, I don't really care bout Dual Spec inside the same AC or other changes, it's just the attitude of whiny cry babies that pretend absurd things that I can't really stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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