BioWare, please do not let the sadistic minority ruin your game

[krisslanza]

I've played games from WoW to DarkFall. The reason WoW succeeds is because they allow their content to be easily accessible while still catering to the hardcore.

 

What do I mean? If you are a PvPer or casual (casuals don't even read forums) you would LFR which quickly groups you with other players forming a raid.

 

The LFR are easier raids but in exchange the rewards (gear) weren't as powerful.

 

Then there are regular raids and heroic versions for the hardcore players.

 

Even PvP is easily accessible. You can log in play a few battlegrounds/arenas and be rewarded with top notch armor. Every PvPer in WoW who was good had a full set of armor a month into the season but didn't stop playing after that. Why? Because it's fun, but that's not only why - End of season vanity rewards such as gladiator, mounts, etc - easily accessible but still catering to hardcore.

 

Debatable. From what I last ever followed of WoW, it's becoming a really dicey situation. Yes, WoW has made it much easier for casual gamers to get into it, but the hardcore gamers complain as in order to do this, they're making everything easier.

 

Things that used to take hours to do, or something that took weeks of preparation can be done in an hour, or prepared for within a day. Big achievements are losing their meaning, really cool gear is losing any kind of "status" behind it because it's just easy to get. I can understand why Blizzard does it, but it's still frankly annoying that any ol' group can pretty much go roll over the big bads of the series.

 

Shouldn't some things be a challenge? Something difficult that you really have to work at it for? Instead of just a "Well, just stay out of the big, bright death zones and keep whacking the guy until it dies."

[Varberggri]

Rodiruk all you've done in this thread is saying you're with the majority, you're right and the others are wrong...

 

All your suggestions are fine to me except the LFG/D and like 50% of the people in this thread keep telling you why they think it's a bad idea all the time and you just spam the same answer telling us we're dead on wrong??

 

To be honest I believe the majority of this game right now dont even consider this an issue, they get groups fine with just chats (including guildchat). Try to /who and search for a particular dungeon and be amazed there's actually ppl there. There's no other threads about LFG in particular except yours and yours is filled with people disliking it yet u keep saying their opinion is trash..

 

That's what I believe and know others think different about it and I'm not 100% right like u are.

[krisslanza]

None of the features affect the SWTOR game play. None of them will make SWTOR a WoW clone. None of them change how your class plays, or how combat works, or how companions work, or the context of the story lines. Just because two cars have power locks and windows doesn't mean one is a clone of the other. Without these features, peoples play styles are being restricted. With them, you can still play the same way. As I have already stated, options are good, restrictions are bad.

 

I suppose but it just annoys me. I miss the day when games actually made your choices matter, instead of allowing you to just reverse them all the time.

 

I still think affection should be more "useful" and not something you can un-do by throwing gifts at them. If you're a horrible, baby-eating monster, you shouldn't be able to make <insert companion here> love you because you give them enough gifts to overcome the affection loss.

 

However, that's an entirely different subject.

[Rodiruk]

Rodiruk all you've done in this thread is saying you're with the majority, you're right and the others are wrong...

 

All your suggestions are fine to me except the LFG/D and like 50% of the people in this thread keep telling you why they think it's a bad idea all the time and you just spam the same answer telling us we're dead on wrong??

 

To be honest I believe the majority of this game right now dont even consider this an issue, they get groups fine with just chats (including guildchat). Try to /who and search for a particular dungeon and be amazed there's actually ppl there. There's no other threads about LFG in particular except yours and yours is filled with people disliking it yet u keep saying their opinion is trash..

 

That's what I believe and know others think different about it and I'm not 100% right like u are.

 

Please tell me where I have stated someones opinion is trash? People keep repeating the same thing that I addressed in my original post without adding anything to it.

 

Please, someone, explain how a LFD will impact your play style. You can still play the same way you had pre-LFD tool. Only when someone actually brings something new will this discussion move forward in a meaningful way.

[Varberggri]

Only when someone actually brings something new will this discussion move forward in a meaningful way.

 

just proved my point

[Florial]

Also, why do you call us the "sadistic minority"? If anything we're just the majority who are tired of every MMO trying to become WoW. WoW is ruining MMO gaming for possibly years, or generations to come, and frankly I'm getting sick of people kissing up to it so much.

 

While the OP's post was well written with some good points, I tend to agree with this statement. I actualy think many of you want to see WoW 2.0 and all the features it had after a solid 7 years on the market. I would like to see a better UI and certainly a server only LFG tool if this is ever implemented, I can live without the other features. Combat logs, dual specs, auto travel---nah I'm here to play a different game and okay if it never makes it into this game. If you want a game that has complete freedom of specs, combat logs, and LFG tool, give Rift a try. It has done an excellent job of completely trying to mimic WoW but with the all the souls you can try you, you can truly be in ADHD paradise. Play a cleric---you can tank, you can DPS, you can heal. You are an unstoppable army and do it all. One reason why I quit that game--I had absolutely zero identity with any of my characters. It will be shame if BioWare caves into the vocal WoW majority that is looking for WoW in every single MMO they play. Really a shame.

 

On edit: I'm assuming that you are talking about an AC dual spec? I'm semi okay with a dual spec within the advanced class. Being able to switch the AC? Nah, be happy with your choice or reroll.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Florial

[Liberta]

LFG tools doesn't kill communities, LFG tool with x-realm capability does. Edited December 24, 2011 by Liberta

[Lolliipopp]

Can't tell if serious...

[Rodiruk]

I suppose but it just annoys me. I miss the day when games actually made your choices matter, instead of allowing you to just reverse them all the time.

 

I still think affection should be more "useful" and not something you can un-do by throwing gifts at them. If you're a horrible, baby-eating monster, you shouldn't be able to make <insert companion here> love you because you give them enough gifts to overcome the affection loss.

 

However, that's an entirely different subject.

 

I can agree with you regarding the companions. I just like choices regarding the spec. I already made a hard choice by going Guardian. Why not let me be able to Tank in PvE and spec Vigilance/Focus for PvP? How does that hurt anyone? I also know that I can switch specs, so why not just give us a way to easily switch so we don't have to adjust talents/hotkeys each time?

[Rodiruk]

While the OP's post was well written with some good points, I tend to agree with this statement. I actualy think many of you want to see WoW 2.0 and all the features it had after a solid 7 years on the market. I would like to see a better UI and certainly a server only LFG tool if this is ever implemented, I can live without the other features. Combat logs, dual specs, auto travel---nah I'm here to play a different game and okay if it never makes it into this game. If you want a game that has complete freedom of specs, combat logs, and LFG tool, give Rift a try. It has done an excellent job of completely trying to mimic WoW but with the all the souls you can try you, you can truly be in ADHD paradise. Play a cleric---you can tank, you can DPS, you can heal. You are an unstoppable army and do it all. One reason why I quit that game--I had absolutely zero identity with any of my characters. It will be shame if BioWare caves into the vocal WoW majority that is looking for WoW in every single MMO they play. Really a shame.

 

On edit: I'm assuming that you are talking about an AC dual spec? I'm semi okay with a dual spec within the advanced class. Being able to switch the AC? Nah, be happy with your choice or reroll.

 

While there are others out there that want to be able to switch AC's. I am referring to a dual spec within the same AC. I will edit my post to make this clear.

[krisslanza]

I can agree with you regarding the companions. I just like choices regarding the spec. I already made a hard choice by going Guardian. Why not let me be able to Tank in PvE and spec Vigilance/Focus for PvP? How does that hurt anyone? I also know that I can switch specs, so why not just give us a way to easily switch so we don't have to adjust talents/hotkeys each time?

 

At least someone sees my point about companions.

 

I can see where you're coming from, I can. It's just hard for me to understand it, since I tend to just do PvE and thus I only really need one kind of spec to do it. If they don't add dual specs, ToR might at least cap the credit cost at some point. That's also slightly iffy as, at least if you use Slicing, you probably have more credits then you know what to spend on.

 

And also, I think the people you fight in PvP might be hurt if you do that.

[Postalz]

Debatable. From what I last ever followed of WoW, it's becoming a really dicey situation. Yes, WoW has made it much easier for casual gamers to get into it, but the hardcore gamers complain as in order to do this, they're making everything easier.

 

Things that used to take hours to do, or something that took weeks of preparation can be done in an hour, or prepared for within a day. Big achievements are losing their meaning, really cool gear is losing any kind of "status" behind it because it's just easy to get. I can understand why Blizzard does it, but it's still frankly annoying that any ol' group can pretty much go roll over the big bads of the series.

 

Shouldn't some things be a challenge? Something difficult that you really have to work at it for? Instead of just a "Well, just stay out of the big, bright death zones and keep whacking the guy until it dies."

 

When I play star wars or any other game I'm not "working hard" and don't want to. I'm playing a video game.

 

Yes, achievements should mean something but you disregard the second part of what the mantra is - easily accessible but still cater to the hardcore.

[magnuskn]

I'm not averse to any of those option, as long as the LFD tool stays strictly on the same server, so people have an incentive to behave like normal, nice people.

[AJ_SWTOR]

I agree with every point in the OP. These are all must-have features. Rift started out listening to this misguided group, but soon after implemented a dungeon queue when they realized how many people could not find groups to do them at all.

 

I also think one of the main things WoW did that made it what it was, was to allow users to make add-ons. I know that's risky and tricky, but it has huge benefits to the strength and longevity of the game.

 

WoW is an old, worn-out, terrible game in many ways, that many people want to leave. SWTOR is excellent so far, and has the potential to take WoW's place as the pre-eminent MMORPG.

 

But some of these features have to be implemented for it to get there.

[AJ_SWTOR]

I'm not averse to any of those option, as long as the LFD tool stays strictly on the same server, so people have an incentive to behave like normal, nice people.

 

What matters most is that people are able to take part in the content and complete it. Yesterday I joined a group for Hammer Station. It took a while to find the people, but not too bad. The problem came when we got the second boss, wiped, and the healer immediately left without a word. End of run. I still haven't completed it, and I basically gave up on Flashpoints in favor of questing.

 

I played WoW before and after the introduction of the queue, and the idea that it "harmed community" is a total myth. On the internet, there will always be a certain number of players who abuse the freedom of anonymity. Proper game design will make it so that those players' ability to harm others is minimized. Quaint notions about "community" with total faceless strangers on the internet is a pipe dream. It never existed in WoW.

Edited December 24, 2011 by AJ_SWTOR

[belialle]

I don't mind having an LFD tool.....provided it is specific only to my server. I want to meet new people and make new friends on my own server.

[AJ_SWTOR]

I don't mind having an LFD tool.....provided it is specific only to my server. I want to meet new people and make new friends on my own server.

 

See, that's the problem. Most people don't play these kinds of games to meet people and make friends with strangers. It's creepy, and it never works out. The game needs to focus on joining up for a mission, completing it, and going your separate ways. That's what most players want out of an MMO.

[bobofatt]

See, that's the problem. Most people don't play these kinds of games to meet people and make friends with strangers. It's creepy, and it never works out. The game needs to focus on joining up for a mission, completing it, and going your separate ways. That's what most players want out of an MMO.

 

While Call of Duty is not mmo but just way the game lets you jump right and pick up and play is what makes very popular and the same can sort of be said about WoW.

[freakuancy]

ok i'll bite,

 

UI yes it needs work

LFD tool i will support it if it is server only

Dual Spec umm no, pick a class and learn to play it, I've seen too many people in that other game fall flat on their face because they just cant focus on 1 damn role or what not.

 

When there's two DPS trees and one healing tree or tanking tree in utility AC's, yes. We need dual-spec. "Stick to your role" is an understandable sentiment, but consider the fact that AC's have two trees for a single role (ideally, one PVE focused and one PVP focused).

 

As a general rule I do not want to go into a warzone in the same spec I PvE as.

 

Just please don't back down on the no AC respec rule. This is wonderful and needs to stay in place.

[freakuancy]

See, that's the problem. Most people don't play these kinds of games to meet people and make friends with strangers. It's creepy, and it never works out. The game needs to focus on joining up for a mission, completing it, and going your separate ways. That's what most players want out of an MMO.

 

No, thats what YOU want from an MMO. You want a single-player experience with the occasional group to carry you through difficult content.

 

This has never been the spirit of MMOs. Ever.

[Skienz]

Well put OP.

 

Devs, if you want a better perspective then just the people who post on the forums opinion, you need to implement a login polling system where you can occasionally have people offer their opinions when they login to the game.

 

Wonderful game so far.

[bobofatt]

When there's two DPS trees and one healing tree or tanking tree in utility AC's, yes. We need dual-spec. "Stick to your role" is an understandable sentiment, but consider the fact that AC's have two trees for a single role (ideally, one PVE focused and one PVP focused).

 

As a general rule I do not want to go into a warzone in the same spec I PvE as.

 

Just please don't back down on the no AC respec rule. This is wonderful and needs to stay in place.

 

Thing about what I underlined. If your leveling solo in the game with only the help the a companion you have no choice but to pick the Advance class that works best your first companion.

 

Like mako is healer she works best with a tank so I picked the tank advance class but when I get blizz my jawa tank companion later on the game I would of like to be a healer for him but I can't because I'm stuck with my advance class because I made the choice to pick what felt the most efficient route

 

 

Don't even give me the oh but you can't do that in WoW because I've got a druid that was dual spec tank and healer and I had both sets of gear for the specs.

I use to run randoms all the time on him.

Edited December 24, 2011 by bobofatt

[Rialth]

Well put OP.

 

Devs, if you want a better perspective then just the people who post on the forums opinion, you need to implement a login polling system where you can occasionally have people offer their opinions when they login to the game.

 

Wonderful game so far.

 

Even though I don't think BioWare needs to do anything until the first 31 days are up. Once the "trying the game, it sucks because" crew leave. This would be the best way to poll your community and see what we all really want.

 

No one that posts on these forums speaks for the majority...no one.

[freakuancy]

Thing about what I underlined. If your leveling solo in the game with only the help the a companion you have no choice but to pick the Advance class that works best your first companion.

 

Like mako is healer she works best with a tank so I picked the tank advance class but when I get blizz my jawa tank companion later on the game I would of like to be a healer for him but I can't because I'm stuck with my advance class because I made the choice to pick what felt the most efficient route

 

 

Don't even give me the oh but you can't do that in WoW because I've got a druid that was dual spec tank and healer and I had both sets of gear for the specs.

I use to run randoms all the time on him.

 

First off, druids are spoiled and most of us are sick of how Blizzard has treated that class in comparison to the rest of us.

 

Secondly -- you shouldn't have done that. You should have thought forward. It's not like the game has any degree of difficulty until around the point you get your second companion -anyway-.

 

And, at least for the Consular and Knight first companions, they can be either DPS or tanks depending on your role and the current encounter. You don't need a healing companion at that point in the game. I'm sorry but you can't claim to have been forced into choosing a role to compliment your first companion, unless you were trying to make your companion play the game for you.

 

Forward thinking is a necessary part of MMO's, and life in general.

Edited December 24, 2011 by freakuancy

[TheHauntingBard]

Read the whole thing and this is how I look at the game and the forum community.

OP pretty much nails it and nothing you can say will change that he is spot on.

 

Some people just like time sinks, can't argue with that.

But most people don't.