BioWare, please do not let the sadistic minority ruin your game

[Rodiruk]

By the way guys, guess how I have the time to reply to these messages?

 

DUN DUNNA NA

 

I'm waiting to find a flashpoint group in the Republic Fleet. Man this game is so fun. I love a game that promotes me doing other stuff outside of the game while I spam a channel hoping for a group.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Rodiruk

[xRydisx]

bioware, please do not listen to the vocal people in this thread, it will ruin your game with his suggestions. Hey look, I can do it too..go me!

[Rodiruk]

I don't know.... you say that the vocal minority is working against this spec, yet all of your complaints have been voiced several times here by this vocal minority.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to write a clear and concise post, but I disagree with most things in it.

 

The LFD-tool in WoW is horrible. It has removed a large chunk of the social aspects of the game. Maybe we can find some middle ground, but this QoL-stuff where everyone is teleported everywhere instantly is very very bad. It ruins my sense of disbelief. This isn't bloody Star Trek -- there are no transporters. Yet we can call for a shuttle evac several level down in underground bases.

 

Dual-spec again is something I prefer to be without. I prefer a diversity to the classes I meet and that the choices you make have consequences.

 

I respect your oppinion, but I disagree with them. I also think that your worries are unfounded -- the vocal minority on these forums are working for you and trying to get these changes implemented.

 

While I disagree with some of what you say, I appreciate the constructive feedback. I too believe there is middle ground that can make everyone happy.

[Rodiruk]

bioware, please do not listen to the vocal people in this thread, it will ruin your game with his suggestions. Hey look, I can do it too..go me!

 

If you have nothing constructive, don't post. Lets keep this constructive.

 

Again, LFD didn't destroy a community, people like this guy did.

[Arasaka]

Good post.

 

Sitting in Carrack Station spamming "LF Healer Mandalorian Raiders" for ages is not my idea of fun.

[Rodiruk]

Good post.

 

Sitting in Carrack Station spamming "LF Healer Mandalorian Raiders" for ages is not my idea of fun.

 

Thank you, I agree. Waiting around is not fun. I just want to be able to queue up for one or multiple things and continue questing or doing crew skills/space missions.

[Catnic]

I really don't understand the relation between fun and Dualspec, LFG tool etc.

 

Yes, there could be some things changed/added which enhance gameplay but for me it's sad that your FUN depends on these tools.

[xRydisx]

If you have nothing constructive, don't post. Lets keep this constructive.

 

Again, LFD didn't destroy a community, people like this guy did.

 

it is just as constructive as the initial post. And communities such as this are ruined before they even begin. There is no such thing as a good online community.

[Rodiruk]

it is just as constructive as the initial post. And communities such as this are ruined before they even begin. There is no such thing as a good online community.

 

No, it isn't. You added nothing of value. No arguments or opinions. Troll somewhere else please.

[Rodiruk]

I really don't understand the relation between fun and Dualspec, LFG tool etc.

 

Yes, there could be some things changed/added which enhance gameplay but for me it's sad that your FUN depends on these tools.

 

So if you would have read what I wrote, waiting around is not fun. Staring at my character in Republic Fleet waiting for someone to answer my LFG message is boring. That is why I hope they implement the features listed. Most are aimed at reducing "waiting around not playing the game" time.

[displaynameinuse]

The only reason it's like that in WoW is because LFD is cross-realm, and thus you are not likely to run into the same people twice.

 

It should be, in the very least, mandatory for every MMORPG out there to have a WoW-like LFG tool---even if it's only for your server. Don't like someone? Put them on ignore, and the LFG tool should then avoid putting them in your group again.

 

It's actually kind of hypocritical to have a Warzone que system but not a flashpoint/dungeon one.

 

LFD in WoW started out server only. But it was never used because no one could ever get a group out of it.

[Barracudastr]

I agree being level 16 and never getting into a heroic zone for quests because theres no one to group wiht after spamming /1 for an hour or 2 is not only frustrating but makes people not want to play.

[Crogga]

Agree with the OP and great job taking the time to write all that out.

 

I too played wow on and off since release. There was no 'golden age'. It was hell in many respects. Did the changes open the game to more people. You bet it did. But there still was and is a place for difficult raiding and plenty of things to kill your time and still be enjoyable. It's probably losing slight popularity because well- it's 7 years old and the story died with Arthas tbh lol.

 

I'm not sure sadistic is the right word. Maybe afraid and misinformed? There are definately some hardcore purists/elitists patrolling these forums that are sadistic and in so doing, want to keep the game from a wider audience. That equals less money for goodies and dev people.. You CAN have your cake and eat it too. Blizzard proved that.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Crogga

[Dazgra]

No.

 

LFD ruined WoW in the sense that it killed the need to ever leave stormwind or orgrimmar, players just stand around the auction house waiting for their queues to pop, it's stupid. Half the players don't even understand the context of the dungeons, they're just something they click from a menu.

[Crogga]

No.

 

LFD ruined WoW in the sense that it killed the need to ever leave stormwind or orgrimmar, players just stand around the auction house waiting for their queues to pop, it's stupid. Half the players don't even understand the context of the dungeons, they're just something they click from a menu.

 

You think it was different before dungeon finder? Where were you? I bet you were not even playing then. Not only for raids but Org chat was all night long looking for tank or healer for 5 mans. Boring and frustrating. And leveling even worse.

Now you don't HAVE to sit in a capital city. You can gather or whatever while waiting on your pop up.

LFD didn't ruin wow lmao. Like wow is even "ruined" in the first place.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Crogga

[Maxkarnage]

Portable Transport Beacon:

For people who do not know what I'm talking about.

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/gbEohft

 

Why was this taken out? Please implement this back into the game. Not only does it give cybertech something awesome to have, but it solves the reoccuring issue that I'm stating in this thread. Waiting is NOT fun. Not much more to say about this really.

 

 

Get an authenticator ( we all should have it anyways) You can either buy the hardware, or get the app for iphone or android (those are free) This will give you access to the security key vendor where you can buy an item that will transport your group to your location.

[Ghorsh]

No.

 

LFD ruined WoW in the sense that it killed the need to ever leave stormwind or orgrimmar, players just stand around the auction house waiting for their queues to pop, it's stupid. Half the players don't even understand the context of the dungeons, they're just something they click from a menu.

 

Why do you think that without lfd tool it would be different?

People will be standing on fleet station spamming lfg in general chat channel.

At least with lfd tool they have option to leave fleet station, do other things and still queue for flashpoint.

 

There is already warzone tool. People don't need to be on fleet station when they queue for warzone.

Now, imagine there is no warzone tool. How would that work? Do you want Bioware to remove warzone tool?

[Montague]

So if you would have read what I wrote, waiting around is not fun. Staring at my character in Republic Fleet waiting for someone to answer my LFG message is boring. That is why I hope they implement the features listed. Most are aimed at reducing "waiting around not playing the game" time.

 

Since you've been constructive and not trollish I'll return the favor. The main concern that I and others share are the unintended consequences from WoW's LFD tool. These have been said before but I'll repeat for completeness sake:

 

1. Cross-server anonymity that invites antisocial behavior. This has been gone over ad nauseam, I don't have much to add here.

 

2. Go-go instant gratification. Impatient players, or even worse players with limited playtime demanding that they should be able to access and complete X content in Y amount of time regardless of the fact that they are playing with other people that have varying degrees of equipment, skill, and experience. When their demands aren't being met, they create a very hostile environment, due to #1 above

 

3. Disintegration of social bonds like guilds and regular groups. MMO gamers follow the path of least resistance in order to access content, regardless of the greater effect of that path on the game as a whole. Since these social bonds would no longer be the primary means of gaining access to content, they tend to wither and die. Instead of forming friendships and fostering a sense of camaraderie, the game devolves to a bunch of individuals not communicating and barely tolerating each other in order to get their loot.

 

In closing, and I don't say this with any sense of malice, it is my opinion that your $15 a month doesn't, or shouldn't entitle you to group content at the press of a button. The damage that the tool causes to the community and a game as a whole is greater than the service it provides players.

[Crogga]

Since you've been constructive and not trollish I'll return the favor. The main concern that I and others share are the unintended consequences from WoW's LFD tool. These have been said before but I'll repeat for completeness sake:

 

1. Cross-server anonymity that invites antisocial behavior. This has been gone over ad nauseam, I don't have much to add here.

 

2. Go-go instant gratification. Impatient players, or even worse players with limited playtime demanding that they should be able to access and complete X content in Y amount of time regardless of the fact that they are playing with other people that have varying degrees of equipment, skill, and experience. When their demands aren't being met, they create a very hostile environment, due to #1 above

 

3. Disintegration of social bonds like guilds and regular groups. MMO gamers follow the path of least resistance in order to access content, regardless of the greater effect of that path on the game as a whole. Since these social bonds would no longer be the primary means of gaining access to content, they tend to wither and die. Instead of forming friendships and fostering a sense of camaraderie, the game devolves to a bunch of individuals not communicating and barely tolerating each other in order to get their loot.

 

In closing, and I don't say this with any sense of malice, it is my opinion that your $15 a month doesn't, or shouldn't entitle you to group content at the press of a button. The damage that the tool causes to the community and a game as a whole is greater than the service it provides players.

 

It's a video game.

[Ghorsh]

Since you've been constructive and not trollish I'll return the favor. The main concern that I and others share are the unintended consequences from WoW's LFD tool. These have been said before but I'll repeat for completeness sake:

 

1. Cross-server anonymity that invites antisocial behavior. This has been gone over ad nauseam, I don't have much to add here.

 

2. Go-go instant gratification. Impatient players, or even worse players with limited playtime demanding that they should be able to access and complete X content in Y amount of time regardless of the fact that they are playing with other people that have varying degrees of equipment, skill, and experience. When their demands aren't being met, they create a very hostile environment, due to #1 above

 

3. Disintegration of social bonds like guilds and regular groups. MMO gamers follow the path of least resistance in order to access content, regardless of the greater effect of that path on the game as a whole. Since these social bonds would no longer be the primary means of gaining access to content, they tend to wither and die. Instead of forming friendships and fostering a sense of camaraderie, the game devolves to a bunch of individuals not communicating and barely tolerating each other in order to get their loot.

 

In closing, and I don't say this with any sense of malice, it is my opinion that your $15 a month doesn't, or shouldn't entitle you to group content at the press of a button. The damage that the tool causes to the community and a game as a whole is greater than the service it provides players.

 

 

1. I don't think he mentioned Cross-server

 

2. This people will still exists. Also, look at 1.

 

3. You think guilds exist just so people could do flashpoints?

[Draile]

It should be noted that, for the record, WoW's LFD tool prioritizes people from your server when it looks for people. But when those people can't be found, it widens the search to other servers to cut down on wait time.

 

 

Just throwing that out there. WoW's LFD system isn't bad, it's just that it wasn't designed with making players socialize. It's a great feature.

 

And honestly? After I hit the level cap, I'll probably go back to WoW. I'll have experienced the story, but after waiting for hours for groups in Final Fantasy XI, I have no interest in putting up LFG flags or spamming chat channels anymore.

 

I have crap to do. I socialize in guild chat and other areas when I want to. Forcing people into this nonsense is wrong when things could be better.

[Morkhino]

I have played WoW since launch, and I strongly disagree with most of your points!

 

Looking For Flashpoint tool:

The game NEEDS it. People say "It ruins the community", no it doesn't. People have this view of WoW pre-LFD like the community was grand or something. It never was good. Stop saying it ruined the community. It has always sucked. The WoW community ruined the WoW community. If you love to sit in a channel and spam LFG, then do it, don't use the tool. Most of us have want to have fun. If someone gets queued up in your group who is obnoxious? Use the vote tool and boot him/her. Then write his/her name down on your black list or whatever you want to do to feel special. You could always use the same tip that you give others when they say they don't want to spam chat. You could always "group with people you know". However, I do not want to spend what little free time I have waiting in a channel trying to find a group. I want to actually be able to ENJOY the game.

 

All this is, in my opinion, a bunch of bullpoop

Unless you come from the most craptastic server in WoW, the community was actually a whole lot better back in vanilla/tbc days.

These days you hardly know people on your own server, or even in your own guild!

Back in "the good old days" you were forced to actively look for people to join your group, and the pool was naturally restricted to your own server. This did make the server and guild communities a whole lot stronger then they are today.

As for your point about "if you dont like it, dont use it"; people are lazy and instances have become complete facerolls!

If you had timewarped the LFG-tool straight into vanilla, people would not have been that eager to use it. Why? Because instances were actually a challenge back then. If you grouped with people who did not use CC and could follow a simple attack order, you would fail.

People used to learn their characters in these groups. Unlike today, when if you utterly suck at your class you can just queue again and somewhere down the line someone will carry you through, people had invested time in getting you there, and were unwilling to just boot you. So they gave you tips and directions to get you on par.

So, even if I would rather prefer grouping with guildmates or even people from my own server, there is no real possible negative consequense for using the LFG-tool... There is no real fear of it all going straight to the fiery pits of wipe-hell. So I use it to gear and cap valor points fast.

The first incarnation of the LFG-tool was as far as it should have gone. A simple flagging yourself that you are available. No random, cross-server insta-porting tool of community and player skill destruction.

 

Dual Spec:

You have three trees. You have several different options. Some people want to play around with the talents and see what they like best. Some people want to have a PvE and PvP spec. Some people want to be able to switch from DPS to Heals or tank. Some people want to have optimized specs so they can perform the best of their ability. Why not let them have it? I see people saying it "ruins diversity". This may be true. However, and this goes back to my original point, standing in a chat looking for one specific role to finish your group IS NOT FUN. Limiting your options IS NOT FUN. Letting people dual spec will add more tanks and healers to the pool of players. It will allow more people to have a PvP spec for when they want to take a break from the story. It will give people a solo spec so they can just go out in the world and kill stuff. The pro's of a dual spec system far out weigh the cons. Another argument I hear is "Roll another toon.". No, I'm not gonna roll another Jedi Guardian, go through all the same story line, just to have a DPS or PvP Jedi Guardian. If I am going to roll another toon, I want to roll a completely different class. If you don't want dual spec, DON'T USE IT. YOU can roll multiple toons just to do something slightly different. BioWare took the grind out with their amazing story. Stop trying to put it back in by telling people to roll multiple toons just to do something their class can already do.

 

This affects a multitude of aspects in a MMORPG. Remember how people used to feel a real connection to their spec in WoW?

How people were known by their specs, as an appendix to their name?

In TBC I was known as XXXXXXXX "the CC hunter". With my dedicated survival spec I could CC like headlights to a deer, or several.

Every day I got lots of requests for grouping because of this. People knew that if they brought this player they got good CC.

A LFG-tool, paired with dual-specs, will remove any possibility of such a strong character-building! In addition, the respec-cost in WoW is completely redicolous when considering the inflation of gold. There is no setback at all when doing a respec.

As of today you have players who have tankspecs to LFG, only to swap when grouped, run headfirst into the first pack of mobs, and unless the healer is stupid enough to actually stay and spam-heal, wipe the group.

Likewise, you have players with healing specs to lfg, only to swap when grouped, hoping to force any other heal-capable player to take over.

 

If you are going that have a game where the community and social connections are a goal in itself (like any MMORPG should have), any shortcuts that detract from the process of socializing will hurt this goal. No?

The state of WoW these days is that of a loot-pinata, with the occasional annoying random influence of other real people...

 

Combat Log:

I am a tank. Sometimes I die, and I want to figure out what killed me. I want to know if I was standing in something. I want to know if it was an ability that I may be able to interrupt. I want to know if it was a DOT that stacked up to high. I want to improve my game by looking at what happened. I understand this used to be in beta and was removed. BioWare, could you please tell us why? For those who do not want it. If you do not like this, don't look at the combat log. Some of us want to improve ourselves because we find that fun. People are afraid that with a combat log, DPS meters will come. So what? If you are afraid of people linking meters and showing that your way behind, play with people you know so you don't have to worry about that. I love how people can use the excuse "play with guildies" for arguments like the LFD tool, but not when it comes to being scrutinized by people you are in a flashpoint with. If you are playing with people you are friends with, you don't have to worry about being a baddie while you get carried through something.

 

I can agree to this on certain terms.

First of all: the combat log should be Mob to player only.

Why, you say?

With properly designed encounters there is no need for dps-meters or an outward combat log. Focusing on execution rather then "pound this thing hard for 5 mins before it goes mental" pretty much eliminates the need.

Have group wipers that focuses on awereness rather then dps requirements.

 

The danger of implementing too much access to data is the curve one has seen in WoW.

Early on the challenge was getting 40 people to execute something properly.

Because of the extreme access to game data, the development demand has become much higher. HC raid bosses now have to provide challenges to tanking, healing, dps and at the same time a high level of coordination and execution.

 

Portable Transport Beacon:

For people who do not know what I'm talking about.

http://www.torhead.com/schematic/gbEohft

 

Why was this taken out? Please implement this back into the game. Not only does it give cybertech something awesome to have, but it solves the reoccuring issue that I'm stating in this thread. Waiting is NOT fun. Not much more to say about this really.

 

Now this is a good idea, especially considering the setting of the game.

But for the love of all that is good in this world, do not make any insta-port-all-group-members-inside feature. Someone should have to travel to the place for someone else being transported there.

 

Customizable UI.

While I do not typically use a lot of add-ons or customize my UI, I understand there are a lot of people out there who do. This is a big issue with that group of the community. Please give those players the freedom to change up their UI. There are not too many arguments against this. Options are good, constraints are bad. Give people the freedom to adjust the UI the way they want it. It doesn't harm anyone and will make your players happy.

 

I can agree to a certain extent, as I have been a fond user of addons in WoW.

However; this also relates to my point about the combat log.

Tools that make content easier will affect future content.

What I would like to see here is built-in features, no addon-fest like WoW currently is.

No DBM or BigWigs, no POWA that can tell you pretty much anything, no AH tools that pretty much automates buying and selling enormous amounts of items.

Keep the game simple but streamlined, and most people who actually play for fun will be kept happy.

 

To sum up the overall theme of my arguments, waiting is not fun. There is no aspect to waiting that is fun, for anyone. I do not play a game to spam a chat. I do not play a game so I can watch my character fly around on taxis and look at loading screens. I want to be able to enjoy the different aspects of the game, without having to grind or spend a lot of time just to get to that point. Let me spend a lot of time enjoying those aspects of the game please. Leave the grinding and hardcore mentality to EQ. Whether you love it or hate it, there is a reason World of Warcraft still dominates the MMORPG market. It doesn't even dominate it a little, it crushes the market. I want to see SWTOR flourish into the amazing game it can be.

 

Waiting can actually be quite fun, if you can stomach actually figuring out something to do on your own... Like socializing, crafting, exploring, etc...

I certainly enjoyed more aspects of the game in the earlier stages of WoW. Since WotLK I have hardly moved my character outside the capitol cities, because there is no need to.

And the reason for WoW still being the number 1 MMORPG is hardly quality.

WoW was the first mainstream MMO, and it attracted a huge new playerbase.

For most people, swapping to another MMO is too much of a hassle. They might try LOTRO or AoC, but the transition is too much work, so they shuffle back to WoW. Both those games have qualities that WoW is nowhere near.

WoW's qualities all spring from two things: a huge playerbase (equals huge income, equals huge development team) and content based on lazyness.

These two have an isane synergy, in that the huge playerbase (that keep the cash flowing) is kept ingame by easy access to everything (yet nothing is really rewarding).

 

Again, please, read this BioWare. Ignore the vocal minority on this forum that want to sabotage your game. There are a lot of us out there that want this game to succeed. We want to move on from other MMORPGs. Give us a reason to do so. Give us the tools to truly enjoy the beautiful game you have crafted.

 

You obviously want a WoW in space.

I would rather see SWTOR burn subscriptions and end up as a free-to-play then it going the way of the Wall-Mart of MMO's...

 

TL;DR:

Waiting is not fun, get over it. If you want to wait, don't use the tools. Leave your sadistic pleasures out of the game and stop telling BioWare to ruin this amazing game.

 

Leave your longing for WoW at the login, or pick up WoW again.

We do not need a insta-porting, leet-infested, head-against-keyboard clone...

[Teabaker]

No, don't do what this guy said :/ WoW is so horrible anonymous... Two days ago i did a Flashpoint and it went so smooth (Well, not really. We wiped a few times) that i added them to my Friendlist. Now we are often together, doing Warzones, Heroics. Quests and new Flashpoints. This would have NEVER been possible in WoW. Who the **** cares if you need 5-15 Minutes longer to find a Group for a Flashpoint? Also you can easily spam in /1 while Questing :/

 

Please Bioware, don't listen to this Guy.

[Areka]

Waiting is not fun, get over it. If you want to wait, don't use the tools. Leave your sadistic pleasures out of the game and stop telling BioWare to ruin this amazing game.

 

You hate waiting because you want to do a lot in very few time. In some cses, it can be justified. In others, it's not.

 

Can I sue you for calling me sadistic? Or define me as minority just becaue I don't agree with you?

[CharagonIGN]

I support the OP